Bizarre 'whistleblower' claims “60% of all delivered Taycan have battery issues that caused replacements, damages and fires”

[Gwaihir]

At 400V the current delivery will be DOUBLE and not half! Power=Voltage x Current (? just saying!)

I don’t think you have read it right. He was correct in saying “it is half that of an equivalent 400V car”.

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[Tsingtao]

I'm just finishing up an article on how Porsche reduces your warranty by 386km every time you play a Justin Bieber song on the built-in Apple Music player. I have it confirmed by Porsche.

Also, any song by Taylor Swift played through the PCM will completely void the warranty (at least that is what I tell my 10 year old daughter, and it could be true but I hope I never find out.)

 

[Tavsan]

How many Taycan owners have done this? ?



More context:
https://electrek.co/2021/12/23/tesla-owner-blows-up-model-s-dynamite-battery-replacement/

 

[Scandinavian]

How many Taycan owners have done this? ?



More context:
https://electrek.co/2021/12/23/tesla-owner-blows-up-model-s-dynamite-battery-replacement/

Why would you.
absolutely nonsense

 

[JimBob]

Life is all about 3 things. Money, sex and power. This guy is not a candidate for the latter two. YouTube brings the first to everyone in the world!

 

[rs38]

some updates:
I did some minor investigations after being able to log some BMS, module and cell data and asking around what kind of "insider information" Alex V. and his buddy and book author Christoph K. gathered to start their weird assumptions.
The "whistle blower" is kind of protected but pretty sure only a less technical educated Porsche guy that provided some TIS information, which could be essentially any dealer with PPN access anywhere in the world.

It all started more than a year ago with the book author observing some MY2020 Taycans being transported to dealers being dead/unable to start. We all know this was true but for a simple and common reason: 12V battery problems. And it could be also true it were 60% of the early Taycans that suffered from that issue.

Then, what obviously just started, there was a cumulating series of wrong assumptions without knowing any deep BEV technical background like mixing 800V vs. 400V advantages, J1 platform, ampere, cell config, different markets etc.

Most of the the internally referenced information can be found linked in this forum, e.g.:

https://static.nhtsa.gov/odi/tsbs/2020/MC-10185117-0001.pdf

"If customers require emergency charging on 120 volt supply equipment, ensure the charging current is set to no less than 8 amps to prevent vehicle communication errors. Refer to Advanced Technical Information (ATI) #2004"

so some genius ? was mixing ampere with kilowatts which lead to the weird statement that "the problem occurs when the batteries are charged at a low AC speed of up to 7.5 KW..."
I am not joking!!

https://static.nhtsa.gov/odi/tsbs/2021/MC-10186362-0001.pdf

mentioned reprogramming and stated versions of the BMS software mentioned which leads to these bizarre assumptions of hiding evidence.

regarding the immunity of the Audi mentioned: of course the Audi Etron GT has the same OBC and BMS hardware like the Taycan, but it was introduced over a year later when the 12V was already fixed.

 

[Gwaihir]

some updates:
I did some minor investigations after being able to log some BMS, module and cell data and asking around what kind of "insider information" Alex V. and his buddy and book author Christoph K. gathered to start their weird assumptions.
The "whistle blower" is kind of protected but pretty sure only a less technical educated Porsche guy that provided some TIS information, which could be essentially any dealer with PPN access anywhere in the world.

It all started more than a year ago with the book author observing some MY2020 Taycans being transported to dealers being dead/unable to start. We all know this was true but for a simple and common reason: 12V battery problems. And it could be also true it were 60% of the early Taycans that suffered from that issue.

Then, what obviously just started, there was a cumulating series of wrong assumptions without knowing any deep BEV technical background like mixing 800V vs. 400V advantages, J1 platform, ampere, cell config, different markets etc.

Most of the the internally referenced information can be found linked in this forum, e.g.:

https://static.nhtsa.gov/odi/tsbs/2020/MC-10185117-0001.pdf

"If customers require emergency charging on 120 volt supply equipment, ensure the charging current is set to no less than 8 amps to prevent vehicle communication errors. Refer to Advanced Technical Information (ATI) #2004"

so some genius ? was mixing ampere with kilowatts which lead to the weird statement that "the problem occurs when the batteries are charged at a low AC speed of up to 7.5 KW..."
I am not joking!!

https://static.nhtsa.gov/odi/tsbs/2021/MC-10186362-0001.pdf

mentioned reprogramming and stated versions of the BMS software mentioned which leads to these bizarre assumptions of hiding evidence.

regarding the immunity of the Audi mentioned: of course the Audi Etron GT has the same OBC and BMS hardware like the Taycan, but it was introduced over a year later when the 12V was already fixed.

Great work. Thank you?

 

[rs38]

another proof that the BS in the Teslerati article can easily checked to be untrue.
the main claim was: " 60% (...)for safety reasons, overheated battery cells are disabled and isolated from the battery pack, reducing battery capacity and thus the vehicle’s range. "

With diagnostic tools and a cheap OBD2 adapter you can read and log data from the BMS down to all single cells and modules. Speaking of the PB+ it's 198 logical cells (2p) and 33 modules.

It looks like this with a well charged battery at roughly 90% SoC:

you see the open circuit voltage (OCV) of the HV pack being between 811.8 and 812.1V and
the cell voltage being between 4106mV and 4096mV very stable during a 35sec period of time.

this clearly proves there is not a single cell being disabled, because - even if worst distributed - with 198 x minimum cell 4.069V it's 811.0V and no room left to omit a cell.
(despite of being practically impossible to isolate cells in battery design)

of course, this could be coincidence, being one of the 40% lucky guys, but I promise, I will test further cars soon and I really charged my car quite often with only 7kW AC, accordingly "stress tested"

 

[Gwaihir]

another proof that the BS in the Teslerati article can easily checked to be untrue.
the main claim was: " 60% (...)for safety reasons, overheated battery cells are disabled and isolated from the battery pack, reducing battery capacity and thus the vehicle’s range. "

With diagnostic tools and a cheap OBD2 adapter you can read and log data from the BMS down to all single cells and modules. Speaking of the PB+ it's 198 logical cells (2p) and 33 modules.

It looks like this with a well charged battery at roughly 90% SoC:

you see the open circuit voltage (OCV) of the HV pack being between 811.8 and 812.1V and
the cell voltage being between 4106mV and 4096mV very stable during a 35sec period of time.

this clearly proves there is not a single cell being disabled, because - even if worst distributed - with 198 x minimum cell 4.069V it's 811.0V and no room left to omit a cell.
(despite of being practically impossible to isolate cells in battery design)

of course, this could be coincidence, being one of the 40% lucky guys, but I promise, I will test further cars soon and I really charged my car quite often with only 7kW AC, accordingly "stress tested"

Great work. What we need is more detail on the test kit you are referring to? Then more of us - if possible - can add data.

 

[Superrat]

Being cynical, I would suggest it’s not impossible that a site called Teslaratti (or whatever ) is a bit upset after hearing the Taycan globally is outselling the Model S and X combined. A lot of Tesla sites and Youtube channels seem to have a lot riding on Tesla success and actively hate any other EV. It’s ridiculous. It’s not impossible that news like this could affect Taycan sales. The initial EPA range announcement for the car probably caused a lot of buyers to look elsewhere. That said, right now Orange Country CA has a LOT of Taycans rolling around our streets. Many other makes and models too at the charging stations. I’m glad to see them all, Tesla included!

I am one of them and I love the car. 100%charge nets me 225 mi so all good !
SR

 

[rs38]

Great work. What we need is more detail on the test kit you are referring to? Then more of us - if possible - can add data.

It's currently in development and only 2 adapter tested, but I would also like to see some more results.
So anyone with a STN111x/ELM327V2 compatible OBD2 dongle (~$25)

and a Windows laptop can PN me and I will provide an early prototype with at least some cell voltage readings. Should be also no problem to make it more public in a few days if some feedback of adapters is present.

 

[rs38]

this is a diagnostic view into the Taycan battery, if you check all 198 cell pairs with 130Ah each. https://www.batemo.de/products/batemo-cell-library/e66a/

not much room left for the whistle blower story, right?

198*single voltages in series = 785V

Module	SoC1	Voltage1	SoC2	Voltage2	SoC3	Voltage3	SoC4	Voltage4	SoC5	Voltage5	SoC6	Voltage6
1	0,780	3,963	0,780	3,963	0,780	3,963	0,780	3,963	0,780	3,964	0,780	3,964
2	0,780	3,963	0,780	3,963	0,780	3,964	0,780	3,963	0,780	3,964	0,780	3,963
3	0,780	3,963	0,780	3,964	0,780	3,963	0,780	3,963	0,780	3,963	0,780	3,963
4	0,780	3,962	0,780	3,964	0,780	3,964	0,780	3,963	0,780	3,966	0,780	3,963
5	0,780	3,964	0,780	3,964	0,780	3,963	0,780	3,963	0,780	3,964	0,780	3,963
6	0,780	3,963	0,780	3,964	0,780	3,964	0,780	3,964	0,780	3,962	0,780	3,963
7	0,780	3,963	0,770	3,960	0,770	3,959	0,780	3,963	0,780	3,962	0,770	3,961
8	0,780	3,964	0,780	3,963	0,780	3,963	0,780	3,963	0,780	3,964	0,780	3,962
9	0,780	3,962	0,780	3,963	0,770	3,961	0,770	3,961	0,780	3,961	0,780	3,964
10	0,770	3,962	0,780	3,963	0,770	3,961	0,780	3,962	0,780	3,963	0,780	3,963
11	0,770	3,962	0,780	3,963	0,780	3,966	0,780	3,965	0,780	3,963	0,780	3,963
12	0,780	3,964	0,780	3,964	0,780	3,962	0,780	3,964	0,780	3,964	0,770	3,962
13	0,780	3,963	0,780	3,963	0,780	3,963	0,780	3,961	0,770	3,961	0,770	3,961
14	0,780	3,963	0,780	3,964	0,780	3,963	0,780	3,964	0,780	3,963	0,780	3,963
15	0,780	3,965	0,770	3,963	0,770	3,962	0,780	3,962	0,770	3,961	0,770	3,961
16	0,780	3,962	0,780	3,962	0,780	3,965	0,780	3,964	0,780	3,963	0,780	3,964
17	0,780	3,963	0,780	3,963	0,780	3,962	0,780	3,964	0,780	3,965	0,780	3,965
18	0,780	3,964	0,780	3,964	0,780	3,962	0,780	3,964	0,780	3,963	0,780	3,963
19	0,780	3,962	0,780	3,965	0,780	3,964	0,780	3,963	0,780	3,964	0,780	3,965
20	0,780	3,962	0,780	3,963	0,780	3,963	0,780	3,963	0,780	3,965	0,770	3,962
21	0,780	3,961	0,770	3,961	0,780	3,963	0,770	3,962	0,780	3,964	0,780	3,963
22	0,780	3,963	0,780	3,962	0,780	3,963	0,780	3,964	0,780	3,963	0,780	3,962
23	0,780	3,963	0,780	3,963	0,780	3,964	0,780	3,963	0,780	3,963	0,780	3,964
24	0,780	3,965	0,780	3,963	0,780	3,963	0,780	3,963	0,780	3,963	0,780	3,963
25	0,780	3,963	0,780	3,964	0,780	3,963	0,780	3,964	0,770	3,960	0,780	3,963
26	0,780	3,964	0,780	3,964	0,770	3,962	0,780	3,964	0,780	3,963	0,770	3,961
27	0,780	3,962	0,780	3,963	0,780	3,963	0,780	3,964	0,780	3,962	0,780	3,964
28	0,780	3,964	0,780	3,964	0,780	3,964	0,780	3,964	0,770	3,963	0,770	3,960
29	0,780	3,962	0,780	3,963	0,780	3,963	0,780	3,963	0,770	3,960	0,770	3,961
30	0,770	3,962	0,780	3,964	0,770	3,962	0,780	3,963	0,780	3,965	0,780	3,962
31	0,780	3,963	0,780	3,963	0,780	3,964	0,780	3,963	0,770	3,960	0,780	3,963
32	0,780	3,963	0,780	3,965	0,780	3,964	0,780	3,962	0,770	3,962	0,780	3,962
33	0,780	3,961	0,780	3,964	0,780	3,964	0,770	3,962	0,770	3,962	0,780	3,962

 

[Chris8536]

Good analysis. Only thing it’s missing is there were a fair number of battery failures and replacements far beyond the 12V issue in 2020 Taycan. They are all over the early forum.

also sample size of 1.

Dont get me wrong I think this guys is exaggerating. I just don’t think he is entirely fabricating.

 

[epirali]

Good analysis. Only thing it’s missing is there were a fair number of battery failures and replacements far beyond the 12V issue in 2020 Taycan. They are all over the early forum.

also sample size of 1.

Dont get me wrong I think this guys is exaggerating. I just don’t think he is entirely fabricating.

i have been on this forum for two years and had one of the first taycan on the east coast. I don’t recall any number of traction battery replacements, which are you referring to?

the main issues were software related faults that were addressed.

 

[Chris8536]

i have been on this forum for two years and had one of the first taycan on the east coast. I don’t recall any number of traction battery replacements, which are you referring to?

the main issues were software related faults that were addressed.

Are you serious? Battery failure was a not uncommon issue and stated as “electrical failure” with the taycan being bricked and unable to move. Happened to several 2020s and the battery had to be fully replaced.

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