22kw upgrade concern appearing on porsche car configurator.

[pEAkfrEAk]

Does everyone have issues with the 22kw charger

I have the 22kW charger on my 2022 4S and have any issues with it. Works perfectly fine.

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[McgR]

Does everyone have issues with the 22kw charger or was @tigerbalm simply unlucky? I have it specced on mine (build locked, car not with me yet) and now I am concerned. If all it takes to keep it safe is charging less than 25A on a single phase then I don’t mind. But does that mean less than 25A on 3-phases too? I have a Wallbox charger at home mounted on 3-phases.

I have also ordered the 22 kw onboard charger and 22 kw Wallbox on 3x400 32 at home. The car will be delivered next week.

I don’t think I will be using single fase charging much. Most public chargers around here are 11 or 22, I presume these are also 3 phase.

At home I think I will put the wall box on 11 kw or maybe even a bit less to get it charged in 8h.

Some posts yesterday on another thread for CT 4 configuration of owners having a 22 kw onboard charger and they don’t report problems.

 

[tigerbalm]

But does that mean less than 25A on 3-phases too? I have a Wallbox charger at home mounted on 3-phases.

Full power on 3-phase is acceptable. 25A on 1-phase is the current recommendation. My issue is that I destination charge a lot and cannot control what hotels/chargers will supply me with – therefore triggering the chargers weakness.

Sounds like you plan on mostly charging on a 3-phase you control – I suspect you'll be just fine.

 

[tigerbalm]

I am starting to be a little concerned that my experiences – which I have documented as accurately as possible – with no exaggerations – is causing undue worry to potential or existing owners.

And I understand why – nobody wants to spec in an option that makes the car unreliable.

I mostly charge on 1-phase AC – though I reduce the power to 25A at home – the charger for me remains unreliable. And its worth remembering that the last time it failed it was in the middle of a 3-phase 22kW charging cycle. However, the previous day I charged for a few hours on a 1-phase 7kW public charger at a zoo carpark.

I refuse not to charge my car when it needs to – I am not trying to provoke the failures – I just have a view that an EV should not hate electricity!

Either way – I have every confidence that Porsche will get a handle on this and if you do end up with issues then it will be subject to a recall – but the specifics of this are still unclear. For sure, Porsche are not yet in that position.

If I was reading my story – I would put it down to a combination of me mostly 1-phase charging away from home in chargers I don't control.

I optioned the 22kW charger – and I would do it again if a fix comes along – due to the 1000's of public 22kW chargers in towns across Ireland and the still relatively low penetration of fast DC chargers. When our fast DC charging network is rolled out here – then the 22kW charger will diminish in importance for me.

There is only 1 Porsche Centre here in Republic of Ireland – a small island country – so that does help get a handle on the extent of the issue here.

I can share these verbal stats:

There are roughly 110 Taycan's sold in Ireland so far. Of these 12 have specced the 22kW charger. Of those 10 have had it replaced once. I've had it replaced 3 times – which is by far the outlier – but there is a widespread problem with the units based on those numbers.

3-phase residential charging is relatively unheard of here in Ireland – so most people buying the charger will be using it on 1-phase at home and bought it – like me – for emergency public charging in the west of our country which still has sparse DC charging options.

This option remains one that Irish buyers are interested in and enquire about.

I have a new order in the works (https://www.taycanforum.com/forum/threads/taycan-4s-taycan-turbo-s.10428/) and I have left the 22kW charger off the build – for obvious reasons. But the new car won't be manufactured until Q4 of this year – and I and my Porsche Centre are keeping a close eye out for news of a more reliable unit – and will add it to the build if it arrives before production starts.

 

[McgR]

I am starting to be a little concerned that my experiences – which I have documented as accurately as possible – with no exaggerations – is causing undue worry to potential or existing owners.

And I understand why – nobody wants to spec in an option that makes the car unreliable.

I mostly charge on 1-phase AC – though I reduce the power to 25A at home – the charger for me remains unreliable. And its worth remembering that the last time it failed it was in the middle of a 3-phase 22kW charging cycle. However, the previous day I charged for a few hours on a 1-phase 7kW public charger at a zoo carpark.

I refuse not to charge my car when it needs to – I am not trying to provoke the failures – I just have a view that an EV should not hate electricity!

Either way – I have every confidence that Porsche will get a handle on this and if you do end up with issues then it will be subject to a recall – but the specifics of this are still unclear. For sure, Porsche are not yet in that position.

If I was reading my story – I would put it down to a combination of me mostly 1-phase charging away from home in chargers I don't control.

I optioned the 22kW charger – and I would do it again if a fix comes along – due to the 1000's of public 22kW chargers in towns across Ireland and the still relatively low penetration of fast DC chargers. When our fast DC charging network is rolled out here – then the 22kW charger will diminish in importance for me.

There is only 1 Porsche Centre here in Republic of Ireland – a small island country – so that does help get a handle on the extent of the issue here.

I can share these verbal stats:

There are roughly 110 Taycan's sold in Ireland so far. Of these 12 have specced the 22kW charger. Of those 10 have had it replaced once. I've had it replaced 3 times – which is by far the outlier – but there is a widespread problem with the units based on those numbers.

3-phase residential charging is relatively unheard of here in Ireland – so most people buying the charger will be using it on 1-phase at home and bought it – like me – for emergency public charging in the west of our country which still has sparse DC charging options.

This option remains one that Irish buyers are interested in and enquire about.

I have a new order in the works (https://www.taycanforum.com/forum/threads/taycan-4s-taycan-turbo-s.10428/) and I have left the 22kW charger off the build – for obvious reasons. But the new car won't be manufactured until Q4 of this year – and I and my Porsche Centre are keeping a close eye out for news of a more reliable unit – and will add it to the build if it arrives before production starts.

Thanks for your reply. That’s really useful.
10 out of 12 replaced, that is a big problem. Lets hope the reason is too much charging on single fase. Or some regional Irish / UK electric problem ? I don’t understand why the configurator still only mentions the problem on the UK site.

 

[tigerbalm]

So for folks speccing up their new Taycan's and considering the 22kW charger – my advice as things stand today is to follow Porsche's own advice:

"Please note that for single-phase charging (up to 7kW) the standard on-board charger is recommended."

So here is the decision tree:

• Do you mostly charge at home with 3-phase power and public charge on 3-phase power? Choose the charger today

• Do you mostly charge at home with 1-phase power and rarely public charge on 3-phase power? Skip the charger or wait until Porsche drops the recommendation above (unknown timeframe but very likely sometime in 2022).

• Do you mostly charge at home with 3-phase power but sometimes charge at hotels/destinations that have only 1-phase 7kW chargers? Skip the charger today or option it knowing your destination charging goes against current Porsche advice and hope you get lucky. Porsche will replace units under warranty if you get unlucky and at some stage soon this will likely be permanently resolved.

• Do you mostly charge at home with 1-phase power (but can control it under to be 25A) and sometimes charge in public at 3-phase? Likely skip the charger today or wait for a permanent fix. Porsche is recommending not use this charger on 1-phase and reducing the power is only "increasing the lifetime" of the unit.

 

[tigerbalm]

I have the 22kW charger on my 2022 4S and have any issues with it. Works perfectly fine.

Could you share your ratio of 3-phase to 1-phase charging?

 

[pEAkfrEAk]

100% 3-phase charging. 1-phase charging is not very common in Germany

 

[tigerbalm]

100% 3-phase charging. In Germany 1-phase charging is not very common.

Thank you and aligns with what I suspected. The almost universal 1-phase charging in UK/Ireland is also likely the reason our configurators have the warning.

 

[McgR]

Thank you and aligns with what I suspected. The almost universal 1-phase charging in UK/Ireland is also likely the reason our configurators have the warning.

Just some more questions / thoughts.

I presume plugging in the Porsche mobile charger on a normal 220v grid on a holiday location won’t be a problem as this should be 2,4 kw max? Planning to do this and keep it plugged in a really long time just to have it charged when leaving again after a week.

And what chargers could potentially be dangerous? The 7,6 kw chargers in hotels because they are single fase 32 A, 11 (16A) and 22 (32A) are safe because always 3 fase.

 

[backslashed]

Great replies! This is super helpful. Thank you especially to @tigerbalm for all the details.

@tigerbalm I do have one question for you: when destination charging - aren’t you charging from a regular outlet? If so, why not buy one of those chargers which allow you to set the amps and reduce it? If not charging from a socket, then I guess it kind of sucks that Porsche doesn’t allow you to set the Amps from the PCM, like Tesla does.

 

[tigerbalm]

@tigerbalm I do have one question for you: when destination charging - aren’t you charging from a regular outlet? If so, why not buy one of those chargers which allow you to set the amps and reduce it? If not charging from a socket, then I guess it kind of sucks that Porsche doesn’t allow you to set the Amps from the PCM, like Tesla does.

I do have a fancy travel charger that allows me control the power – however, in most destination charger situations I am using the hotel's Type 2 AC charger – not a regular or industrial outlet. Many hotels in Ireland have dedicated EV chargers at this stage and that is what I am referring to.

Examples:

 

[LLA53]

MY21 with 22kW charger, I charge 90% of the time at work on an Anderson charger 22kW with zero issues. When travelling I manage 90% using IONITY 350kW chargers at Porsche dealers, no issues, at home I have single phase 32A use this occasionally no issues.

 

[tigerbalm]

MY21 with 22kW charger, I charge 90% of the time at work on an Anderson charger 22kW with zero issues. When travelling I manage 90% using IONITY 350kW chargers at Porsche dealers, no issues, at home I have single phase 32A use this occasionally no issues.

It is great to hear these stories – so that my experiences with this option – isn't the only narrative out there.

 

[whitex]

So for folks speccing up their new Taycan's and considering the 22kW charger – my advice as things stand today is to follow Porsche's own advice:

"Please note that for single-phase charging (up to 7kW) the standard on-board charger is recommended."

So here is the decision tree:

• Do you mostly charge at home with 3-phase power and public charge on 3-phase power? Choose the charger today

• Do you mostly charge at home with 1-phase power and rarely public charge on 3-phase power? Skip the charger or wait until Porsche drops the recommendation above (unknown timeframe but very likely sometime in 2022).

• Do you mostly charge at home with 3-phase power but sometimes charge at hotels/destinations that have only 1-phase 7kW chargers? Skip the charger today or option it knowing your destination charging goes against current Porsche advice and hope you get lucky. Porsche will replace units under warranty if you get unlucky and at some stage soon this will likely be permanently resolved.

• Do you mostly charge at home with 1-phase power (but can control it under to be 25A) and sometimes charge in public at 3-phase? Likely skip the charger today or wait for a permanent fix. Porsche is recommending not use this charger on 1-phase and reducing the power is only "increasing the lifetime" of the unit.

Nice decision tree, assuming nothing will change between now and when your car is built.

I find it interesting that:

1. The picture of the 22KW charger upgrade shows an exploded view of the battery, rather than the high voltage charger charger.
2. After all this time, knowing that the problem exists, Porsche has not only not solved the problem, but not even figured out a way to limit the single phase charging via software or at least on the newly built cars.

I get that marketing is often clueless about the technology they are selling, so I am not too surprised about #1 above (just triggers my OCD), but I am rather shocked in Porsche engineering (#2 above). With software defined cars, especially in a brand new area of technology like EV's, manufacturers need to be a lot more agile with their products. Porsche has known about this problem for months, and the best solution they came up so far was a footnote on the ordering page?!?

PS> Here is the Taycan charger (diagram from US model with DC charge port on the right) , for those interested

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