Tesla opens up their EV connector design to the world (North American Standard)

[Replika]

I have used both the Tesla connector and CCS extensively. My current vehicles are CCS, as are my planned future vehicles. That said, even at this stage in EV development, I do believe backtracking to use the Tesla connector is worth it in the long run.

CCS is too bulky. The top pins often do not seat well enough to allow communication to cars. As an able-bodied person I have had my share of trouble using CCS plugs especially when the charger and metal posts fail to allow the stiff cable a 100% straight shot to the charge port. No doubt this will present an issue for elderly and disabled people.

My two main concerns are, is Tesla opening up their NACS without strings? It has to truly be open-source, no royalties. And can their standard some day support V2L, or two-way power delivery?

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[daveo4EV]

I have used both the Tesla connector and CCS extensively. My current vehicles are CCS, as are my planned future vehicles. That said, even at this stage in EV development, I do believe backtracking to use the Tesla connector is worth it in the long run.

CCS is too bulky. The top pins often do not seat well enough to allow communication to cars. As an able-bodied person I have had my share of trouble using CCS plugs especially when the charger and metal posts fail to allow the stiff cable a 100% straight shot to the charge port. No doubt this will present an issue for elderly and disabled people.

My two main concerns are, is Tesla opening up their NACS without strings? It has to truly be open-source, no royalties. And can their standard some day support V2L, or two-way power delivery?

the connector is agnostic - so bidirectional support is a matter of the two ends supporting it - not the connector.

I agree it should be royalty free, but J-1772 is patented and licenced and cost money - so this is not an impediment honestly - but it appears Tesla is offering it up as a "free standard" - so your move other EV vendors…

CCS sucks - this is a viable alternative - proven functional - the question is will anyone bite?

 

[Gwaihir]

Tesla is opening up their proprietary charging solution. I hope this will improve the CCS standard or Tesla will get more companies to to adapt to their standard.

https://www.tesla.com/blog/opening-north-american-charging-standard

Another great link, thanks: Already gone through the schemantics
Impressive including FMEA data! Never expected that. . . .

 

[Gwaihir]

I have used both the Tesla connector and CCS extensively. My current vehicles are CCS, as are my planned future vehicles. That said, even at this stage in EV development, I do believe backtracking to use the Tesla connector is worth it in the long run.

CCS is too bulky. The top pins often do not seat well enough to allow communication to cars. As an able-bodied person I have had my share of trouble using CCS plugs especially when the charger and metal posts fail to allow the stiff cable a 100% straight shot to the charge port. No doubt this will present an issue for elderly and disabled people.

My two main concerns are, is Tesla opening up their NACS without strings? It has to truly be open-source, no royalties. And can their standard some day support V2L, or two-way power delivery?

Why the last comment? Would you ever think any other manufacturer would open source like this?

 

[bsclywilly]

a CCS to NCAS adapter is all we need and could be as simple as a Tesla Tap like thing or the TEsla J-1772 adapter they ship with each Tesla

I hope it is as simple as a CCS to NCAS adapter but then why all the hassle of this magic dock idea and delaying the roll out to new stations in 2023?

I watched a video where they dissected the NCAS to CCS adapter and it’s honestly quite simple - conductors, switches for connection and temperature. Perhaps their existing chargers can’t easily be retrofitted to communicate with J1772.

edit: Nevermind, NACS is compatible -4.5.2 The North American Charging Standard is compatible with “plug and charge” as defined in ISO-15118. Which begs the question why isn’t anyone making an adapter today?

 

[Replika]

Why the last comment? Would you ever think any other manufacturer would open source like this?

Disregard - I was under the impression that J1772/CCS was open source.

 

[nickmdp]

This doesn't seem to be in good faith to me. If Tesla wanted to, they can and should have done this from the very start in the US, but they waiting until NEVI funding laws had been agreed on so that they could do the minimum possible to cash in on it. Once they have that money, who knows what crap they'll pull to put other manufacturers in a bind.

Now, if Tesla had also announced a relatively inexpensive adapter to charge CCS cars on their network, I'd be more likely to give them the benefit of the doubt here, but this doesn't seem like a true attempt to improve EV infrastructure, and is rather an attempt to have more control over EV infrastructure.

 

[daveo4EV]

j

This doesn't seem to be in good faith to me. If Tesla wanted to, they can and should have done this from the very start in the US, but they waiting until NEVI funding laws had been agreed on so that they could do the minimum possible to cash in on it. Once they have that money, who knows what crap they'll pull to put other manufacturers in a bind.

Now, if Tesla had also announced a relatively inexpensive adapter to charge CCS cars on their network, I'd be more likely to give them the benefit of the doubt here, but this doesn't seem like a true attempt to improve EV infrastructure, and is rather an attempt to have more control over EV infrastructure.

cause Electrify america is a such an upstanding organization and doing an excellent job.

NCAS is a better design - let's adopt it.

they are offering it as an open standard - it can work with out Tesla's support now that it's out there - I don't see how this handi-caps anyone.

 

[daveo4EV]

I'm not seeing any legal limitations

The design and specification files are available for download, and we are actively working with relevant standards bodies to codify Tesla’s charging connector as a public standard. Enjoy.

and once adopted it could work with anything or anyone - nothing I read locks you into anything Tesla - other than if an adopting party chooses to support Tesla Superchargers…

again this connector is "agnostic" - it doesn't care what communications protocol it used or voltage is run across the lines…

pure and simple it's a better connector - an alternative design to CCS and J-1772 that doesn't lock you into anything…

design is open and avaiable for download, and schematics with no licenceing notes/requirements.

 

[whitex]

Here's the thing. By making the standard "open" he now qualifies for Fed money to install chargers.

I do not expect any CCS manufacturer to switch to this connector, though I do think it's better.

Actually they hope one does. Tesla needs their superchargers to be usable by more than one car manufacturer in order to qualify for government grants. If having an adapter would have sufficed, they would have just designed an adapter, make it available for purchase, and call it a day.

Opening the specs however *may* open the market to 3rd party adapters, however they may not work if Tesla doesn't "bless" those adapters by provisioning them to work with the supercharger network. So unclear whether or not something TeslaTap for DC charging will ever be possible (physically yes, but unless Tesla provisions those adapters to be recognized by the Supercharger, it's just a boat anchor).

 

[whitex]

I agree - I think the inertia is on CCS's side, but I'd really like to see a transition…it's a long shot but possible

in the end this would be good for North American EV's and make EV charging more accessible/reliable - but it will take some "vision" for the automakers and charging networks to overcome the inertia…

I have not had a chance to read through the specs, does Tesla allow vehicle-to-grid? If not, that could be a major reason why other manufacturers will not switch to it. I foresee future government funding requiring vehicle-to-grid as a qualifier for government subsidies, since it is likely to become a key factor for scaling EV adoption.

 

[daveo4EV]

Superchargers already work in Europe - not sure it's all that complicated…

 

[nickmdp]

cause Electrify america is a such an upstanding organization and doing an excellent job.

NCAS is a better design - let's adopt it.

they are offering it as an open standard - it can work with out Tesla's support now that it's out there - I don't see how this handi-caps anyone.

If Tesla wants their connector to be the standard, they need to do more than just allow other manufacturers that have already unanimously selected a different connector to use these plans though. Releasing a CCS adapter that can be used on Superchargers is the bare minimum I see here, but from my understanding they haven't even released the communication spec that would allow a third party to create such a device.

Until a CCS car can charge on Tesla's network in the US, I really don't want to hear about them being 'open'.

 

[daveo4EV]

I have not had a chance to read through the specs, does Tesla allow vehicle-to-grid? If not, that could be a major reason why other manufacturers will not switch to it. I foresee future government funding requiring vehicle-to-grid as a qualifier for government subsidies, since it is likely to become a key factor for scaling EV adoption.

they have opened the connector design and shape - is does not support or not support bi-directional power - it's a passive connectors - I don't see how this would prevent vehicle to grid.

 

[whitex]

NCAS Vehicle to CCS Adatpter - available today - this enables NCAS vehicles to use CCS chargers of any kinda - it's a passive adapter - so it should work with any FastDC charger the vehicle can recognize and talk to.
https://shop.tesla.com/product/ccs-combo-1-adapter?web=true

Technically true that is a passive adapter, but not true that it's a true CCS to NCAS adapter. This adapter can only be used on newer Tesla vehicles (2020+ IIRC), as it requires hardware and software in the Tesla which will recognize the adapter and switch Tesla onboard-charger to ISO15118 (CCS) mode. I own two Model S, both can of course use Tesla superchargers (NCAS) without any issues, neither of those will work with the above adapter. There is an upgrade available from Tesla, but it requires changing out some car hardware. Another way to think of it - this is half of the adapter, the passive half, a more complex part of this adapter must already be built-into a Tesla car for it to work. I also doubt they actually convert to NCAS signaling at all, they probably have native ISO15118 signaling in the software since they've been offering that in Europe already.