Taycan Turbo S vs. Model S Plaid - really by this much!?

[fullmetalbaal]

Its been confirmed that tech means infotainment screen.

When you go to a Tesla showroom, everyone is playing with the infotainment screen, not much else. When I'm in a Tesla, all i did was play with the screen. The subsequent Test drive is a 0-60 launch.

Everyone wants something different out of a car. For me, the screen is very low on the list and I have a software company. For others it means a lot more.

For me personally, I look at cars differently. I know it cost more to build a car properly and cheaper to make high resolution graphics. The last time I sat in a Model 3, I immediately walked out just from the seats.

Engineering gets me excited, gimmicks and graphics don't.

I think their powertrains aren't bad either.
They have very competitive performance (acceleration and repeatability) and efficiency (meaning good range and fast charging). The Plaid time on the Nurburgring IMHO showed that it's not just about 0-60.

Their safety systems are standard (something more manufacturers should follow IMHO) and good.
They have better EURO NCAP scores than Porsche, for example.

Their mobile service approach is IMHO the future. (yes, they are still learning and scaling, but TBH my local Porsche dealer is also fucking up that part of the equation, as they have 1+month wait times in the shop there too)

I am NOT saying that it rides better than a Taycan, or that I would pick it instead.
I am saying it's not just "the screen" and Netflix.

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[Dee]

I think a Tesla Plaid can be beaten by a Turbo S.
I've seen reviews where they've tested the 0-60 on a normal street without preparing the battery: 0-60 in 2,3 s. (still silly fast right?)
That's with rollout (without is just silly).
Taycan Turbo S on paper: 0-60 in 2,6s, on the street: 2,5s.
At the traffic lights it's pretty easy to win 0,2 s by just reacting 0,2 faster...
It's just that much more, 0,2 seconds.
What are we talking about?
I'll race any Tesla. ?

 

[mikeva]

For what it is worth -- it seems a stock Tesla S Plaid just set the EV record for Nuremberg record besting the Taycan Turbo....

 

[riburn3]

Its been confirmed that tech means infotainment screen.

When you go to a Tesla showroom, everyone is playing with the infotainment screen, not much else. When I'm in a Tesla, all i did was play with the screen. The subsequent Test drive is a 0-60 launch.

Engineering gets me excited, gimmicks and graphics don't.

In all fairness, on a Model 3, the screen is the information source for the entire vehicle. Maybe the toybox and games are a gimmick, but the amount of information and usefulness of the screen is stellar. Tesla has pretty much set the standard for infotainment screens in vehicles over the last decade, and it's why any new car with a big screen coming out immediately has it compared to a Tesla's. People want information an integration in their vehicle similar to how their smart phones work, and Tesla was one of the first car companies that made a superior touchscreen that acted and felt like your phone.

I really like what Porsche and Mercedes have been doing with their screens over the last few years, and in some models like them more than a Tesla, but it's obvious where the influence came from.

 

[fullmetalbaal]

For what it is worth -- it seems a stock Tesla S Plaid just set the EV record for Nuremberg record besting the Taycan Turbo....

And before we start hearing the "that was just a Musk tweet, is it really real?" complaints, here it is from the official source:

https://nuerburgring.de/news/tesla-faehrt-offiziellen-rekord-fuer-elektrofahrzeuge

Beyond lap times and 0-60 bragging rights, I honestly would take the Plaid powertrain (ie motor, battery, electronics, ) over what my Taycan has. I HATE it when the transmission is caught flat footed when I suddenly want some extra acceleration during an otherwise calm drive.
One of the main things about EVs for me is that they are ALWAYS in the right gear.

I've said it elsewhere, the 2 gear transmission is a dead end. I'd bet real dollars it's going away if not in the facelift then in J2 or whatever it's called.

 

[Mr.Smith]

I think their powertrains aren't bad either.
They have very competitive performance (acceleration and repeatability) and efficiency (meaning good range and fast charging). The Plaid time on the Nurburgring IMHO showed that it's not just about 0-60.

Their safety systems are standard (something more manufacturers should follow IMHO) and good.
They have better EURO NCAP scores than Porsche, for example.

Their mobile service approach is IMHO the future. (yes, they are still learning and scaling, but TBH my local Porsche dealer is also fucking up that part of the equation, as they have 1+month wait times in the shop there too)

I am NOT saying that it rides better than a Taycan, or that I would pick it instead.
I am saying it's not just "the screen" and Netflix.

And before we start hearing the "that was just a Musk tweet, is it really real?" complaints, here it is from the official source:

https://nuerburgring.de/news/tesla-faehrt-offiziellen-rekord-fuer-elektrofahrzeuge

Beyond lap times and 0-60 bragging rights, I honestly would take the Plaid powertrain (ie motor, battery, electronics, ) over what my Taycan has. I HATE it when the transmission is caught flat footed when I suddenly want some extra acceleration during an otherwise calm drive.
One of the main things about EVs for me is that they are ALWAYS in the right gear.

I've said it elsewhere, the 2 gear transmission is a dead end. I'd bet real dollars it's going away if not in the facelift then in J2 or whatever it's called.

Audi was the first to come up with the Tri Motor. Maybe it will be on the next gen Porsche EVs.

You really don't feel the shifting in the the E-Tron GT like you do the Taycan. It's much more pronounced with the Taycan.

 

[ORZOWEI]

That's one of the problems with Tesla: they spend their time developing 'cool' features like fart mode, games and cool pictures of the car in 3D.

But these stupid things take away resources from things which really matter, like making their auto steer work reliably. All you need is one bad auto steer reaction and you could end up dead. Give me safe auto steer; I don't need fart noises, games, YouTube or Netflix.

I've had three things happen to me while using auto steer on my Tesla model Y: twice the car went from auto steer to adaptive cruise control (which could have caused me to get into an accident had I not been keeping my hands on the wheel) and once the car braked abruptly without any cause. And this was in the 10,000 miles I have on my car.

Besides scaring the crap out of me, the Tesla is fine to drive.

I just wish Tesla would talk less and do more: less boasting about how great their self driving will be and great long their range is. The range is crap (most weeks I get around 200 miles on an 85% charge compared with the 300+ miles they sold me on) and their self driving is scary.

Tesla autopilot (even at its current state) is BY FAR the best in the industry. Much better than any VAG brand including Porsche. I never use innodrive because it´s only working good in a straight line, but I never had a problem with my Model X auto pilot, it feels safer and more reliable.
The range is another story, because no matter the brand, if your right foot weights the same like mine does, there is no way to get those ranges, but who cares? I drive for fun, not for range!

 

[TayFan]

As others have noted here, this is not an apples to apples comparison. IMO, a Taycan should not be compared to a Tesla- they are each targeted at different audiences and their build qualities are vastly different. Teslas are like chromebooks and Taycans are like Macbooks!

I boil it down to the fact that a Taycan is a true drivers car, and a Tesla (although incredible in their own right), is not…

 

[TayFan]

Tesla autopilot (even at its current state) is BY FAR the best in the industry. Much better than any VAG brand including Porsche. I never use innodrive because it´s only working good in a straight line, but I never had a problem with my Model X auto pilot, it feels safer and more reliable.
The range is another story, because no matter the brand, if your right foot weights the same like mine does, there is no way to get those ranges, but who cares? I drive for fun, not for range!

I would never personally buy a Porsche and want it to drive itself, so that is of zero concern to me. ??‍

 

[TayFan]

This is well said I would be shocked if more than 10% of Porsche owners would ever switch a Tesla. It is a different market and I agree Elon has done a great job making EVs “cool” but beyond that I would never spend $ on a car that looks like every other Tesla on the road, and I don’t know if it’s me or what but there are so many Model 3’s, Model X’s, and Model S’s it’s almost a dime a dozen.

Yes, agreed, the ubiquity of Tesla’s dissuades me from wanting one…although I’m very thankful they have helped propel the electric car market so far forwards!

 

[fullmetalbaal]

I think a Tesla Plaid can be beaten by a Turbo S.
I've seen reviews where they've tested the 0-60 on a normal street without preparing the battery: 0-60 in 2,3 s. (still silly fast right?)
That's with rollout (without is just silly).
Taycan Turbo S on paper: 0-60 in 2,6s, on the street: 2,5s.
At the traffic lights it's pretty easy to win 0,2 s by just reacting 0,2 faster...
It's just that much more, 0,2 seconds.
What are we talking about?
I'll race any Tesla. ?

It's not the 0-60 that is that different. There I agree, it's probably within the reaction time variances of 2 different drivers.

Have a look at the 0-100 mph.
Turbo S 5.9s
Plaid: 4.3s

It gets worse for 0-130mph.

(EDITed to add units.)

 

[Dee]

It's not the 0-60 that is that different. There I agree, it's probably within the reaction time variances of 2 different drivers.

Have a look at the 0-100 mph.
Turbo S 5.9s
Plaid: 4.3s

It gets worse for 0-130mph.

(EDITed to add units.)

Tesla overstate their numbers.
Porsche understate their numbers.
Personally I think too many Tesla fans are here.

 

[fullmetalbaal]

Tesla overstate their numbers.
Porsche understate their numbers.
Personally I think too many Tesla fans are here.

These numbers are both from Motortrend, not from Tesla.
Taycan Turbo S: https://www.motortrend.com/reviews/2020-porsche-taycan-turbo-s-first-test-review/
Plaid: https://www.motortrend.com/reviews/2022-tesla-model-s-plaid-first-test-review/

Different days, different temperatures, true.
Unlikely to account for this much of a difference though.

I'm a fan of both Tesla and Taycan. Or neither, depending on what you understand as a "fan".
Just because I like my Taycan for a number of reasons doesn't make me blind to faults, and doesn't mean I immediately discredit a different car.

For the record: I don't own a Plaid, and while I do own a Taycan, it's just a lowly 4S - I'm not defending my purchasing decisions nor regretting anything. I just prefer fact-based discussions.
Can we try and not write off differing opinions as "you're just a fan boy, go away" ?

 

[whitex]

It is quite obvious that some members here drive Teslas or have driven Teslas.
I don't hate them, I just point out that the overall opinion on forums and groups are anti-Tesla.
I'm sorry you found out this way.
You're just denying what people are saying about Tesla, hence the excuses you guys make up and/or share your own experience.
But what do these same people say when you're gone?
Those opinions are on forums/groups where people are anonymous so they say what they really think.

PS Interesting discussion btw. ???

So what you're saying is you were unable to find people loving Teslas on the internet forums, YouTube, etc? Or are you just saying that some people dislike Tesla? If the latter, I gotta tell you, there are some people on the internet who dislike Porsche too. So what?

 

[TayFan]

I agree with everything you wrote, especially your thoughts on the SAAS sales model analogy and that the auto industry is in for a wild ride in the next few years. I also think that Porsche could come out smelling like a rose if the industry goes the way I think it will go.

My thoughts are that some enterprising young lads at places like Apple, Google and even Amazon are already on the cusp of reinventing/disrupting the auto industry as we know it. For sure Tesla mildly disrupted the auto industry in terms of propulsion systems, but so far it is really the same old same old business model with a little OTA software updates/subscriptions thrown in for good measure. If I had unlimited financial resources (like Google, Apple, Amazon etc.) and proper motivation (as in shareholders who always want more growth and more profit) I would relieve the likes of GM, Toyota and VW of their fortunes with a pure CAAS/AMR (cars as a subscription/automated mobile robot) business model. The auto industry at present epitomizes waste and inefficiency in terms of asset utilization. That is, manufacturers sell expensive assets to consumers who utilize the assets, on average, less than 5% of the day. With a CAAS/AMR model (assuming AI and machine learning finally make full self driving viable and safe) a tech based transportation service provider could utilize the same asset, I'm guessing, somewhere north of 70% of the time. Then it is game over for most legacy auto makers, with those who hang on being reduced to contract manufacturers for the transportation providers. In other words, the model would resemble a highly specialized fleet of self-driving Ubers. When the fleet was not busy shuttling kids to school, adults to work, etc. it would be busy delivering mail, groceries, FedEx packages, etc.

I think that most of us would very much like to subscribe to a 100% reliable transportation service whereby a self-driving auto, with the interior appointments of a Maybach, would deliver us to and from work, restaurants, meetings, etc. in utmost comfort; but most of us would still want to own at least one vehicle for fun and/or utility and/or privacy. And that is where the likes of Porsche and other niche players could thrive.

But then again, maybe I am just fantasizing about some subjectively utopian future of transportation! Time will tell.

Yes. I firmly believe what you describe is absolutely the future that is coming faster than we think…

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