100% charge showing 175 mile range

[REIL]

Wow, so you're seeing around 335 miles on 100%. That must mean you're achieving 25kWh/100mi... you must be the president/founder of the hypermiling fan club! That is insane economy.

I have only had the car for a month and a half so not a lot of data yet. The car was a late July delivery in the USA.

I have charged once to 100% and if I recall the OAT was 10-12 C and it showed a range of 301 mi.

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[PanameraFrank]

Exactly, that's why I posted this... and I see that I'm not the only one in this forum (mainly people from UK so far are seemingly having similar numbers) with apparently pretty high consumption. And I forgot to mention that in this specific commute I do twice a week, there is less than 1000feet of elevation (300M)...
Will keep updating my data over the course of the winter.

I can't imagine what would be causing such a difference in UK efficiency numbers, very bizarre & disturbing.

Can you try to measure the kWh capacity of your battery? The easiest way is reviewing a few charging logs and multiplying the kWh added vs SOC % added. 100% SOC should be around 88 kWh. Given that it's the efficiency numbers that look wrong I don't think this will solve anything, but worth checking.

I can't help but wonder if your car has some faulty battery cells. As I mentioned, you're way below what I'm getting in 30/40 degree F, rainy & windy weather, and I'm not being the slightest bit careful.

Here's from my last trip.

 

[andyd]

This part of your post intrigues me. Using mainly Normal with very little sporty driving mine is usually 48-52 kWh / 100 mi. That's a 4S on 21"'s . I've tried crawling for a few miles trying to hardly touch the accelerator to see how low it would go and I managed about 37 Kwh/100 mi

My starting screen is around 160 miles at 100%. This is the UK so 10 degrees roughly.

"2nd) My 4S on 20" wheels gets around 37/38 kWh/100 mi in 30-40 degree weather at highway speeds, so easily 215 miles range with very sporty driving, and I don't believe that these 170ish mile range figures can be accurate unless you're talking single digit or lower F."

 

[Tonytones]

I can't imagine what would be causing such a difference in UK efficiency numbers, very bizarre & disturbing.

Can you try to measure the kWh capacity of your battery? The easiest way is reviewing a few charging logs and multiplying the kWh added vs SOC % added. 100% SOC should be around 88 kWh. Given that it's the efficiency numbers that look wrong I don't think this will solve anything, but worth checking.

I can't help but wonder if your car has some faulty battery cells. As I mentioned, you're way below what I'm getting in 30/40 degree F, rainy & windy weather, and I'm not being the slightest bit careful.

Here's from my last trip.

approx calculation gives me a capacity of 87,2Kwh.
Another difference I see in your pictures is the Average Speed, you seem to be in your example at 49mph and I'm more around 60-65 mph as my commute is mainly HIghway .
Oh well... we'll keep investigating and seeing how the car reacts during winter
Thank you very much for your input, much appreciated!

 

[GEE]

This part of your post intrigues me. Using mainly Normal with very little sporty driving mine is usually 48-52 kWh / 100 mi. That's a 4S on 21"'s . I've tried crawling for a few miles trying to hardly touch the accelerator to see how low it would go and I managed about 37 Kwh/100 mi

48 is very high. This morning I achieved 35 kWh/100mi on my commute to work. If I have a spirited drive in sports plus, I normally end up around 42-44

 

[PanameraFrank]

approx calculation gives me a capacity of 87,2Kwh.
Another difference I see in your pictures is the Average Speed, you seem to be in your example at 49mph and I'm more around 60-65 mph as my commute is mainly HIghway .
Oh well... we'll keep investigating and seeing how the car reacts during winter
Thank you very much for your input, much appreciated!

The majority of my drive is either cruise control locked 69 or 74 mph. The "average" number is just skewed lower because of crawling through the city here to get to/from the highway, which is less efficient for me than my actual highway numbers. Ie.. 15-20 miles of stop & go below 40 mph.

To be more precise.. it's about 78 miles at 74 mph and 68 miles at 69 mph. On my next trip I'll reset the trip computer while on the highway and update with my exact highway kWh/100. If you could, would you do the same + record weather at the time? For scientific sake I'll do range mode, cruise control speed locked, no heated wheel or seat and AC on ECO @ 66 degrees.

I'm concerned there may in fact be something not functioning correctly with your car.

I'm usually well above 40 kWh/100 mi in the city (those stop & go sections can be over 50) and it drops into the 30s or 20s for my 69/74 mph sections.

I've found my car to be most efficient in the 60s and 70s and least efficient below 50 mph.

I also did 8 or 9 50 to 90mph passes in Sport Plus on that trip.

 

[Kingske]

This part of your post intrigues me. Using mainly Normal with very little sporty driving mine is usually 48-52 kWh / 100 mi. That's a 4S on 21"'s . I've tried crawling for a few miles trying to hardly touch the accelerator to see how low it would go and I managed about 37 Kwh/100 mi

My starting screen is around 160 miles at 100%. This is the UK so 10 degrees roughly.

"2nd) My 4S on 20" wheels gets around 37/38 kWh/100 mi in 30-40 degree weather at highway speeds, so easily 215 miles range with very sporty driving, and I don't believe that these 170ish mile range figures can be accurate unless you're talking single digit or lower F."

Sounds like a rather high energy consumption for the temperature and driving style described. With current temperatures around 5 C and lots of inefficiently short trips without battery pre-warming, I am averaging about 32-33 kWh/100 mi. Admittedly, that is a 4S with 19” wheels and all-season tires.

 

[feye]

I want your battery pack lol

Me, too! That would be 543 km on a full charge.

 

[feye]

Wow, so you're seeing around 335 miles on 100%. That must mean you're achieving 25kWh/100mi... you must be the president/founder of the hypermiling fan club! That is insane economy.

On an almost empty flat highway, constant speed and reasonable outside temp, this is the consumption everyone should get.

 

[andyd]

I don't even get that rolling down hill

On an almost empty flat highway, constant speed and reasonable outside temp, this is the consumption everyone should get.

 

[Doc B]

All right everyone, so I did the experiment in the name of science and dressed up with multiple extra layers, gloves and tried to turn off the A/C but it would get too foggy after a few minutes so I set the A/C to Eco mode at the 18C (64F) , no massage, no heated seat/steering.
here are the numbers.....(drum rolls)

Outside temp: -5C (23F)

First leg of the trip : 99.9km (62 miles)
Battery temp : 18C (64F) the car slept in the garage
SoC: 85% to 53%
avg speed : 98kmh (61mph)
Cons: 28.4kwh/100km (45.5kwh/100mi)

Second leg of the trip: 99km (62 miles)
Battery temp: 9 C (48F) the car was parked outside all day
SoC 53%-21%
Avg speed: 94kmh (59 mph)
Cons: 26.0 kwh/100km (42kwh/100mi)

Total commute trip: 199km (124 mi)
Avg speed: 96kmh (60 mph)
Cons: 27.2 kwh/100km (44kwh/100mi)

Therefore, my conclusion is although there is an energy-saving benefit in lowering heating confort, the main things that influence the range are definitely battery temp (and of course the related outside temp) AND speed. Clearly I see a significant difference at 81-84mph (130-135kmh) mark on the average consumption.
So I guess I won't be driving this winter in a hawaiian short-sleeve shirt, but neither in a ski-doo suit!

Ps. here are the numbers I previously posted on the same trip with same outside temp but with confortable heating of 22,5C (72F):

4S with big 93,4Kwh battery ; 6900 km so far (4,300 miles)
Commute of 200km (125 miles) total (return) twice a week plus little city trips during the rest of the week.
Profile set to 85%.
Today outside temp 5,0C (40F), pretty heavy rain, average speed of 110kmh (70mph) for the whole trip so that means highway strech at 130-140kmh (80-90mph) and city driving at 50-60kmh (30-40mph). Winter aero kit 20''.
Started at 85% finished at 15% , heated steering wheel, and seat and some massage and cabin heat at 22,5C (72F) Normal mode selected.
Total trip 201 km (126 miles)

Hi TonyTones, thanks for the data. I'll post mine shortly. Just checking, but does that show better (less) consumption when the battery was cold rather than hot? Also, it seems that you used the same percentage of battery for both legs, even though the consumption figures were different - reason I ask is that I am beginning to doubt the consumption figures on my car, as they don't usually align with the percentage of battery that the car suggests has been used.

 

[Doc B]

Right, going to set-out some UK cold (ish) weather numbers from last weekend. Appologies, long post. I would use Tonytones’ drumroll, but possibly the sound of tumbleweed blowing along the road is more appropriate (if that even makes a sound). Three legs to the journey after charging, with the last leg back home the following day:

Leg 1

Pre-warm: Charged car in the garage overnight to 85% (when electricity cheaper), which left the battery temperature at 15C (59F) (raised from 10.5C (51F)) by the morning. I then charged up to 98% and prewarmed the cabin prior to leaving, which raised the temperature of the battery to 18C (64.5F).

Distance: 53 miles

Outside temp.: 6-8C (43-46.5F)

Battery used SoC: Used 23% of battery (extrapolating to 230 miles of range)

Battery temp. while driving: increased to 30C (86F)

Consumption: 40.2 kWh/100m (extrapolates to 208 miles of range based upon 83.7kWh battery)

Driving style: Normal mode – 50% highway driving (70-80mph), 50% country roads; average speed 43mph

Leg 2

Pre-Warm: Cabin pre-warm, but car was not plugged-in. Battery temperature (car had been left outside for a couple of hours) had fallen to 23C (73.5F).

Distance: 41 miles

Outside temp.: 4.5-6.5C (40-44F)

Battery used SoC: Used 18% (just changed from 17% of battery usage) (extrapolating to 228 miles of range)

Battery temp. while driving: increased to 29C (84F)

Consumption: 37.9kWh/100m (extrapolates to 221 miles of range based upon 83.7kWh battery)

Driving style: Lot of traffic, so effectively 40% highway driving (50-80mph) and 60% slow-crawl city traffic. All in normal mode; average speed 23mph

Leg 3

Pre-warm: Cabin pre-warm, but car was not plugged-in. Battery temperature (car had been left in an underground garage) had fallen to 16C (61F).

Distance: 59.4 miles

Outside temp: 2.5-6.5C (36.5-44F)

Battery used SoC: Used 29% (just tuned) – extrapolates to 205 miles of range

Battery temp. while driving: increased to 25C (77F)

Consumption: 38.9 kWh/100m (extrapolates to 215 miles of range based upon 83.7kWh battery)

Driving style: 20% City driving in normal mode, and 80% highway driving (70-80mph) in range mode; average speed: 48mph

Conclusion

So what does that tell us? Pretty much f’all (so, sorry, probably should said that before you started reading). That said, it does seem to show that pre-heating the battery (as is obvious) does help with range when based upon battery usage, but, when based upon consumption, it seems to have done the exact opposite. This really does make me question the accuracy of the battery % and consumption estimates from the PCM. It may well be that the battery management systems had not properly balanced out the cells for the first leg since I drove only 15 mins after finishing charging, but it is all a bit perplexing why the consumption was higher on Leg 1 than legs 2 and 3, even though the battery was pre-heated, and used less of the SoC. Generally speaking, the consumption figures don’t align with battery usage (even if you allow for a % being rounded up or down). Also, although the range is certainly better than for short journeys (as helpfully pointed out by Panemera Frank), the range figures I’m getting are not really as impressive as some of the US folks are getting in cold weather. I don’t know, but it seems like the Canadian and UK Taycans are disproportionately suffering in cold weather.

 

[NC_Taycan]

Heating the cabin consumes a non-trivial amount of energy from the traction battery. I am not certain if some vehicles have a heat pump for heating the interior and others have a heating element. A heat pump would be much more efficient until the exterior temperature was freezing or below. Anyway, point being heating the interior will reduce range. Turning off the heating / AC (might be a problem for windshield fogging) and using only the seat heater would eliminate this as a variable if someone were inclined to continue adding to these tests.

Chemically speaking, the battery efficiency is worse at lower temperatures. I don't know the ideal temp but it's probably in the 85 deg. F range. You can't directly measure the state of charge of Li-Ion, you have to accumulate energy in minus energy out and account for efficiency losses - then to turn energy into range you also have to account for driving consumption. Lots of variables, which leads to the conclusion that the PCM is making an educated guess and your mileage may vary. Buffer accordingly on cold trips.

 

[PanameraFrank]

I do wonder if there is something about either the mechanicals (specifically the mysterious battery heating system) or electronics that differs in US cars. My cold weather consumption has not only been better but also much more consistent than what has been reported by many non-US owners.

Also my efficiency & battery % exactly align at all times (specifically trip kWH/100 & battery %) so that's another area that I wonder what's going on.

 

[Gogs]

Aberdeen temps. Cold and windy. Just did a trip north. Smooth runnings.

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