150kw option?

[gps217]

Lots of discussion about this option on this board, but much of it is from last year or before. The EV world changes fast (and I have a lock date coming up), so I have a few questions.

Has anyone actually seen any chargers in the United States where one would benefit from having this option? The consensus seems to be no, but that they hypothetically could exist.

Is it a fact that upgrading to this option will give you access to Tesla superchargers if they open up? Does the base system work with with Tesla destination charges?

For what it is worth, I live in Florida and there are chargers everywhere. I plan on charging primarily at home and do not often do road trips. I don't mind spending the money to add this, I am just nervous it may extend my delivery date. I do not want to add it for "hypothetical utility."

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[Windpower]

Does the base system work with with Tesla destination charges?

Yes. The base AC charger built into the Taycan can use Tesla destination chargers (which are normally 240v at 32amps) as long as you have a 'Teslatap' adapter. The Taycan base AC charger can be used at up to 240v at 45 amps.

The Taycan built-in DC charger (the 'fast' or 'super' charger) can accept either 400v or 800v. Tesla super chargers use 400v. The Electrify America chargers (and fast chargers in Europe) use 800v.

So the Taycan can potentially use Telsa super chargers as well as other public fast chargers. I say 'potentially' since no one is sure what Tesla will do.

 

[daveo4EV]

Yes. The base AC charger built into the Taycan can use Tesla destination chargers (which are normally 240v at 32amps) as long as you have a 'Teslatap' adapter. The Taycan base AC charger can be used at up to 240v at 45 amps.

The Taycan built-in DC charger (the 'fast' or 'super' charger) can accept either 400v or 800v. Tesla super chargers use 400v. The Electrify America chargers (and fast chargers in Europe) use 800v.

So the Taycan can potentially use Telsa super chargers as well as other public fast chargers. I say 'potentially' since no one is sure what Tesla will do.

clarity is required here:

• any North American J-1772 based EV (including the Taycan) can use Tesla Destination Chargers w/TeslaTap or equivalent adapter
  • Tesla Destination chargers are 240V AC 20-80 amp L1/L2 chargers and are effectively J-1772 AC chargers with the “wrong” connector shape - the TeslaTap is a physical adapter that simplly “bridges” one type of AC power connector (Tesla) to the standard J-1772 L1/L2 AC connector.
    • Tesla Destination chargers “run” the “J-1772” electrical protocol but they do so with a non-standard 5-connector plug - electrically they _ARE_ J-1772, but physically they do not conform to the required plug shape.
      • the Tesla Universal Mobile Chargers (UMC) generation 1 and 2 are also techinically J-1772 EVSE’s with the same “wrong physical connector” - so TeslaTap also will let you use a Tesla Mobile Charger _OR_ Destination Charger
      • My opinion the sub-$300 Tesla Gen2 UMC is one of hte best Mobile 32 AMP L1/L2 EVSE’s on the market for quality, size, weight, feature set - and an excellent addition to any EV roadwarrior charging kit w/TeslaTap (or equivalent)
        • I use my Gen2 Tesla UMC w/TeslaTap this past weekend to charge my Taycan at Thunderhill Raceway while I tracked my ’18 911 GT3 at a 3 day event hosted by PCA Diablo and GGR regions - soooooo much fun was had
        • my Taycan _WAS_ the pace car for the PCA Club Races on sunday.
        • fun was had - Tesla Gen2 UMC EVSE was used to charge my Taycan between pace car duties using the track’s NEMA 14-50 power outlets all over the paddock.
  • this is a much simpler problem than adapting Tesla FastDC 400V charger connector to the completely different CCS connector with both electrical protocol tranformations and physical transformations require for SuperChager to CCS adaptation.
• NO production/released non-Tesla North American CCS EV can use _ANY_ Tesla Supercharger at this time - and the exact procedures, charge rate, and cost are all TBD and NO CREDIBLE schedule or technology or adapter has been announced at this time
  • Tesla Superchargers are 400V DC
  • there is MUCH complexity that is yet to be determined/locked-down as to how this will exactly be accomplished
    • there are likely scenarios and outcomes that are foreseeable - but there are no “facts” as to exactly how it will be accomplished
    • it is 100% possible and technically feasible for any CCS vehicle to use Tesla’s Supercharger network
      • this has already be inadvertently proven in europe where the Supercharger network uses the same connector
        • some superchagers were left “open” and non-Tesla’s did in fact successfully charge until Tesla “fixed” the superchargers and locked them down again
      • there are many potential methods to make CCS vehicles work with the SuperChargers - so there is no question this _CAN_ be done
        • Tesla and others have simply not yet announced which of the various foreseeable compatibility paths they will actually take
        • we know it can be done
        • we know at least 2 or 3 likely scenarios
        • we simply lack access to the internal plans (if there are any) that will document which of the various methods will be chosen for North American compatibility
          • and time frame will then be the next big reveal
  • Tesla has 3 speeds of Supercharger in North America
    • 72 kW - Urban
    • 120-150 kW - V2
    • 200 kW - V3
  • as to what if any version of Tesla Superchargers any CCS EV (including the Taycan) is able to use at what speed and at what cost is really a crap shoot at this time.
  • Making _ANY_ plans or assumption as to how/when CCS vehicles will interact with the Tesla Supercharger network is highly dubious enterprise at this time.

You should get the 400V/150 kW charging option because it’s cheap, it won’t harm the vehicle and it may triple your charging speeds at some chargers you may encounter during your ownership tenure - but there is no evidence or guarantee you WILL benefit from it - but you’ll miss it if you need it and the $460 ”saving” may seem silly if you end up spending 3x the amount of time charging at some remote location…my $0.02

I believe the above statements are the undeniable facts of the situation as of the date/time of this posting - and anyone telling you anything different may in fact be making things up. Evidence and citations/references would be required for me to change my opinions in this matter.

 

[chrisk]

I regret paying for it. For me, it is as useless as the Charger Dock that is sitting on its box.
I agree that $460 is not much compared to the total cost, but a different way to think about it is if you should spend that money on a different option. I would certainly prefer to have the window trim or rear logo in black instead of the 400V DC/DC option for about the same cost.

 

[gps217]

Thanks for the input guys.

Are Tesla destination chargers currently open to those with adapters?

 

[daveo4EV]

Thanks for the input guys.

Are Tesla destination chargers currently open to those with adapters?

Tesla Destination chargers are simple residential grade chargers installed at various businesses - usage is at the discretion of the business owners/operators.

Example: Seascape Resort in Aptos, Ca has 4 Tesla chargers in the garage area of their 4 main buildings - usage of these chargers are subject to Seascape Resort Hotel personal.

Example: The Oaks Hotel in Paso Robles - same things- usage controls by Hotel Personal - the Oaks has both Tesla and J-1772 Chargers available for hotel guests

Example: The Post Ranch Inn, Carmel CA has Tesla chargers available for hotel guests.

Tesla.com has a "map" of all the Tesla destination chargers…

you can also find "Tesla" chargers via Plugshare as a "plug type" filter in the plugshare app or website…

Napa - various wineries have Tesla chargers in the parking lots - if you’re visitng one of these wineries and parked in their lots and have an adapter you can plug in.

There is “no network” - they are simply 240V Tesla Chargers provided for free to businesses that are willing to operate them. There is no “activation”, there is no “billing”, there is limited “control”. These are no different than if Porsxche provided PMCC’s to businesses for free if the business agreed to installed an operate them.

There is nothing to prevent you from using an Tesla Destination charger if you can plug in other than the business owners/managers asking you to remove your vehicle, generally speaking if you are a patron of the business then they don’t care if you’re using their destination charger.

Enforcement of usage of Tesla Destination chargers is at the discretion of the business owner/operator on site.

 

[gps217]

Thanks! The destination chargers are everywhere on the coast here in Florida. Will make my life a lot easier.

 

[schad]

Remember, though, that you don't need anything other than a Teslatap adapter to use those Tesla destination chargers with your Taycan.

Outside of Tesla-land, I've never even seen a >50kW charger that wasn't EA. I'm sure they exist, but all I've seen is EA, 50kW, and, like, 5kW destination chargers.

Whenever someone has asked me about the FSD option -- it's weird that this has happened since I've never owned a Tesla, but it has happened, and more than once -- my advice has always been that you should be careful spending money in expectation of Elon promptly delivering on a promise.

 

[gps217]

I appreciate it. Last dumb question (I hope) -

If you don't have the 150kw option, what happens when you hook up to a 150kw or 50kw charger?

 

[daveo4EV]

I appreciate it. Last dumb question (I hope) -

If you don't have the 150kw option, what happens when you hook up to a 150kw or 50kw charger?

depends on the external charger - which is why this is such a hard question to answer…

_IF_ the charger is an 800V charger (99.9% of North American chargers more than 50 kW are 800V) - then you will charge at the maximum rate the charger, environmental conditions and vehicle conditions allow…

_IF_ the charger is a 400V charger (I have yet to find one of these in the wild - all Tesla supercharger "fit" this definition) and it's more than 50 kW then the Taycan would be limited to 50 kW maximum charge rate by the onboard 50 kW charging limit.

if you do NOT purchase this option and find a 400V/150 kW charger - then you will be limited to 50 kW charge rate by your Taycan.

if you do not purchase this option and find a 800V/150 kW charger - then your Taycan will be limited to 150 kW charge rate - since that is the maximum power offered by the charger.

In practice I have yet to find a 400V charger that is both 400V _ONLY_ and more than 50 kW

Most/All/99.9%/Every FastDC charger that can do more than 50 kW also happens to be more than 400V so they are not limited by the 400V/50kW charger that is standard in the Taycan

• right now you are unlikely to benefit from this option
• that could change in the future - but it's unlikley
• the Tesla Supercharger network has the potential to be the most likely to impact the wisdom of this option
• lack of this option may have impact on resale of your Taycan - again it may not
• I hate Porsche for making this an option
• it's cheap so get it
• it will/may never be used so why spend the money?
• we lack enough data to make a definitive statement on the usefulness of this option
• it may be very very useful
• it may never be used
• did I tell you I hate Porsche for making this even an option?
• wow it's cheaper than even the 22/19.2 kW AC charging option
• it's cheaper than:
  • the PMCC
  • electric sports sound
  • black calipers for PCSB
  • light strip with PORSCHE logo in Glacier Blue
  • Advanced 4-zon climate control
  • rear 2+1 seat
  • Interior accents Neodyme or Dark Silver
  • painted vehicle key
  • Seat belts in any color
  • power charge port cover
  • 19.2 kW on-board charger
  • PMCC
  • Porsche Dock for the PMC+/PMCC - the dock by the way is a $470 "box" NO value.
  • Porsche Experience Center delivery

I have this option in my personal Taycan and I"m happy I have it - because I know I will always charge as fast as possible and will never be limited to 50 kW - but I may be stupid.

 

[Windpower]

If you don't have the 150kw option, what happens when you hook up to a 150kw or 50kw charger?

Simple: you will charge at 50kw.

So, if someday Tesla opens up their super charger network to non-Tesla cars, the built-in standard Taycan 400v 50kw charger will work fine at up to 50kw.

I have a Tesla model Y and have never seen more than about 75kw at any of my super charger sessions. Theoretically a Tesla can charge up to 150kw but personally I have not seen that rate.

 

[daveo4EV]

Simple: you will charge at 50kw.

So, if someday Tesla opens up their super charger network to non-Tesla cars, the built-in standard Taycan 400v 50kw charger will work fine at up to 50kw.

I have a Tesla model Y and have never seen more than about 75kw at any of my super charger sessions. Theoretically a Tesla can charge up to 150kw but personally I have not seen that rate.

unless it's a 800V 150 kW charger in which case you can/should charge at more than 50 kW - the problem is there is no way for the average person to know ahead of time if a given charger location is 400V or 800V - it's not something advertised/specified as part of the charging location's data…

 

[Windpower]

unless it's a 800V 150 kW charger in which case you can/should charge at more than 50 kW

True for 800v DC 'super chargers': the Taycan standard built-in DC charger can handle up to 270kw (performance battery +) or 225kw (performance battery) at 800v.

But for Tesla 400v DC chargers (assuming some day we'll be able to use them), the maximum rate on the 'standard' Taycan 400v built-in charger would be 50kw.

 

[daveo4EV]

But for Tesla 400v DC chargers (assuming some day we'll be able to use them), the maximum rate on the 'standard' Taycan 400v built-in charger would be 50kw.

correct…

 

[daveo4EV]

what is still unknown at this time is that if/when Tesla Superchargers are made open - what the maximum charge rate will be via any adapter - _IF_ Tesla's adapter only supports 50 kW - your 400V/150kW (or my 400V/150 kW) on board Taycan charger will continue to be useless…{sigh}

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