2020 Taycan Turbo vs. Laguna Seca w/Hooked on Driving [Lap Data & Impressions Added]

[daveo4EV]

they seem to have lapped the Ring several times with the prelaunch car?

based on my experience at laguna there is _NO_ way the Taycan lapped the ring “several” times for the following two reasons:

1. consumption - 212 kWh/100 miles was observed in my morning sessions - the Taycan does not have sufficient battery capacity to do the ring lap more than twice (maybe not even twice)
   1. it’s interesting to me to note that Porsche has never discussed Taycan consumption for the ring
2. Battery thermals based on my experience
   1. from my emperical data I‘ve found the Taycan can run full hot laps for about 15 minutes - that is more than enough time for a full ring lap - but lacks any “endurance” characteristics one my imply from Porsche marketing.

NOTE: the Taycan does way way way better than my 2013 Tesla Model S P85 or my 2014 Tesla Model S P85D - neither of those vehicles could complete a single lap @ Laguna with out throttling - given that the Model S was Porsche’s original benchmark vehicle to compete with the Taycan is hands down a better EV on track than the Model S ever was. I have _NO_ experience tracking a Raven Model S…

based on my personal 1st person experience I can rate EV’s driven on track in the following ranking (1 being best)…

1. 2020 Taycan Turbo - best of the bunch NO QUESTION - 6-7 full hot laps - car was flawless otherwise - no apparently issues
2. 2018 Tesla Model 3 Performance w/Track mode enabled - 4-5 full hot laps - car was really very good and light/nimble - factory performance brakes - not up to the task - with severe brake fade after 3 full pace hot laps - after market upgrades required
3. 2017 Chevy Bolt - surprisingly fun - 93 mph top speed - brakes are awful!!
4. 2014 Tesla Model S P85D - 2/3 rd’s of a lap before being neutered - brakes are a joke
5. 2017 Tesla Model X P100D - 1/2 lap before being neutered - LOL - I was bored @ track one afternoon - really you shouldn’t track this car even as a lark.

While the taycan can not do more than 6 or 7 full hot laps at Laguna - the car is very very good for it’s size and weight for the hot laps it does do. And head and shoulders better than any other production EV I’ve been lucky enough to experience on track

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[daveo4EV]

more random thoughts:

• mmmmmm - Porsche brakes - OMG porsche brakes - soooo awesome - zero issues with the brakes
• the Taycan is drama FREE on track - simply point and shoot - it just goes out and is super super quick - really really easy to drive
• the computers/nannies are soooooo well dialed in that the vehicle is consequence free most anywhere on track - full throttle way tooo early in turn 2 - no problem - very subtle EV nanny control and the power simply rolls on smoothly and linearly as the car settles coming out of the turn…
• I’m giving up a lot of time in Turns 8a & 8b (cork screw) - didn’t have time to optimize my braking - and getting it wrong you run out of track really really quickly at the top of the hill - so I was super conservative to avoid an overshoot - more seat time require and I think there is nearly a full second to be had there
• I’m way off turn 11 apex in my video - yeah I know - I’ll ask the internet to remember that was my 3rd lap EVER in this car and was still learning braking point for turn 11 (5,100 car with 500 hp, I need more than 3 laps to optimize a braking point on all season tires at 9:12 am in the morning - and remember I’m not a pro!!)
• car is soooo quick and heavy - turn 1 @ laguna (the kink) is an experience - car wants to push to driver’s side right - lack of down force - turn 1 is a bit off camber…it’s a pucker moment for sure
• looked down a few times @ turn 1 - 122 mph indicated on speedo - that is super super quick - ONE HUNDRED TWENT TWO f’ing mph @ turn 1 from turn 11 - few cars are that quick!! (I’m doing 114 mph in my GT3 at that point)
• zero drama all day from the Taycan - car runs like a champ
• you can only get 5 solid laps before you have three problems:
  • battery thermals
  • consumption
  • tire’s get greasy given the car’s weight
• I’m not a pro driver, but a I’m a quick hobbiest - I need more seat time to dial in a fast lap - with only 4-5 laps per session and only 3 sessions in a day - I’m not even remotely representing my laguna lap times as anywhere near the best the Taycan can do - it’s the best I could do
  • any real lap time trials would require DC Fast charging at the track - idealy an out lap - 2 or 3 flying laps - cool down lap - come in to rest the tires, adjust pressures, and FastDC charge the vehicle
  • I believe I could crack the 1:45 barrier with proper tires and some FastDC charging at the track - but only 3 or 4 max power laps it’s hard to do at a track day w/others on track
• OMG the 1:3x.xxx plaid drive train proto-type lap @ laguna is pretty impressive - that’s only 2 sec’s slower than 911 GT3 Cup cars in full race trim - wonder what the consumption is? and how many times they can do it back to back - I’m betting no more than twice.
• for reference I personally do a 1:36.xx/1:37.xx @ Laguna in my ’18 GT3 on summer tires
• another forum member was there (owns a Taycan Turbo S not at track) - has tracked BMW M5 @ Laguna - said 1:50’s were common
  • I’m inclined to believe even in my non-pro hobbyest hands 1:46.xx is pretty quick for a 5,100 4 door sedan on all season tires - I’d love any internet wisdom here
  • what does the panamera do at Laguna? Anyone?

 

[NC_Taycan]

Did you have regen on? That causes the battery to get hot.
While tracking the car people switch off regen.

Not sure I fully agree with this - did laps on a damp track where there was more regen going on than normal and battery did not get hot. Then again I couldn't consume as much power as you would on a dry track. Anyway nice footage @daveo4EV - always surreal watching track video in an EV and not hearing engine sound. Not a lot of tire sound either.

 

[daveo4EV]

more thoughts

• laguna is notorious for it’s sound limits - strictly enforced - nov. 9th was a 90 DB sound limit day - a stock GT3 will not make 90 DB or even 92 DB (common limits @ track days)
• people went home due to breaking sound all day (3 strikes and you’re out!!)
• various solutions exist for laguna sound, but one in common is to “lift” near the sound booth - reducing power - between turns 5 & 6
• I must admit it was glorious powering uphill past GT3’s cause you no need to lift in no stink’n EV - full power between turns 5 & 6 is a rare treat!!!!

 

[Miwa]

As long as the tire squeal from M+S tires doesn't go above 90dB...

 

[NC_Taycan]

I am so jealous following this thead...

 

[PanameraFrank]

Thanks @daveo4EV !

I'm going to be honest, when you said you were on the all season tires I cringed. I would wager those tires vs high performance Summers make an even bigger impact on a heavy, torquey car like the Taycan than usual. I remember Matt Farah's 4S video had a LOT of tire squeal and he noted some understeer with the all seasons, I've run as hard or harder on similar roads on Pilot Sport 4 with zero squeal or understeer.

It is really hard when these tracks don't have superchargers and I guess the question is if/when there will be enough interest in tracking EVs to make that jump. Until the battery tech is more usable for tracks, I doubt even the popular tracks will feel like it's a worthy investment.

Appreciate you going out and experimenting for us!

 

[daveo4EV]

@PanameraFrank I agree it may be a while until we have fast DC chargers at tracks -just not enough demand - intersection of EV's and track people really won't justify investment

I know all seasons are not ideal and once these wear out I won't be replacing them with all seasons, I'll move to summer sports tires - at which point I'll return to the track for comparision

I thinking it's at least worth 2-3 seconds for the sport tires (deeper braking) - according to laguna lap time website - the Taycan is already faster than a Cayman @ 1:46.xx lap time and quicker than a Nissan 370Z sports car - and my time as we know is on the all-seasons

1:41 or 1:43 on summer sports tires????

I believe it's possible - and that would make the taycan kinda super quick for a 4 door sedan…

 

[Reg]

Thanks @daveo4EV !
Until the battery tech is more usable for tracks, I doubt even the popular tracks will feel like it's a worthy investment.

True, but it certainly would be some good marketing

 

[wmras]

True, but it certainly would be some good marketing

It would probably only take a group of ten or so people to chip in and have the track install a couple of charge points (You have to be able to charge at least two EVs to make friendly competition fair!).

 

[daveo4EV]

FastDC chargers last time I checked are 100's of thousands of $$$ to install…return on investment is non-existent for track usage - and right not the biggest potential market is Model 3's - so you'd need to install Tesla Superchargers - NOT CCS chargers if you want to achieve any utilization…

it's going to be a while until we see CCS fast chargers at US tracks - there just aren't enough EV's right now to justify the investment

 

[daveo4EV]

I think we could however get ahold of one of the fast charging semi's for a 1 or 2 day track event - that would be fun - ya know big 10 wheeler with 10 CCS fast chargers powered by diesel generators - bring it in for a day or two - flog the Taycan and then it goes somewhere else. Much more efficient capital $$$ wise…

 

[daveo4EV]

doh - rear pads - I'm not an expert but they look a bit worn on the rears - not a lot of pad material left - taking them to mechanic's this afternoon for a quick wheel's off inspection - again this is a heavy car and I had all the nannies "turned on (i.e. not turned off)" - and we know Porsche uses the rear brakes as part of their recovery systems - but wearing the pads in less than 25 laps @ laguna would be very surprising to me…

I'll know more after this afternoon!

if the pads ARE worn and need to be replaced - that would lead me to "call it" and would recommend against tracking this car! I'd be willing to accept 50% wear - but wearing though the pads in a single track day and less than 25 laps is brake pad consumption that is extreme.

 

[Tay Tay]

doh - rear pads - I'm not an expert but they look a bit worn on the rears

I would be super curious what happens if you have PSM off - that would isolate whether it's PSM or PTV causing the brake wear.

 

[daveo4EV]

inspection completed - brake pads are fine - turns out it's almost impossible to see the rear pad wear without removing the wheels - the actual pad material is inset from the edges of the backing plate such that you really can not correctly inspect the pad wear with out removing the wheels - pads are fine - very very experience porsche mechanics (track rats also) estimate less than 5% pad wear vs. new…

so we're good for pad wear.

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