2020 Turbo needs a new high power battery

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thedoctor

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According to this post and the linked Porsche service bulletin, you are indeed getting an upgrade to the 2021+ battery with updated cell chemistry.
I read a couple of posts stating that the traction battery replacement labor was around 4-5 hours, but I can't find them now. So apart from the wait time for the new battery, it seems like you are fortunate to be receiving a free battery upgrade.
Thanks for finding that! I googled 2021 changes and couldn’t find any battery things listed. Everything was software related. One of the things they had to replace on my 2020 was the OTA software update module. After that was replaced I started getting updates to what the 2021 changes were listed as such as GPS based ride height. I got my 2020 turbo in 2021. It had 20 miles on it and was listed as a demo so that they could discount it. So I got a lot off list. The trade off was it’s the first model year with the glitches. If everything gets sorted out before the warranty expires then I’ll be good.
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feye

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dealer inspection @ 18k miles - I had them pull the battery capacity - it reports 92% - if it was below 80% it would trigger the warranty…I'm a bit disappointed at 8% capacity lose in less than 2 years and 20k mile - none of my Tesla's or 2 Bolts showed that type of battery degrade…

Screen Shot 2022-01-01 at 2.56.54 PM.png
Did you race your Bolt like you race your Taycan? :giggle:
 

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@daveo4EV wow if the numbers holds up that is higher than one would expect. Unless for some reason the Taycan batteries "flatten" on degradation after a quick drop? Only time will tell.

@feye I did race my Bolt as much as my Taycan, it was always fun watching the eyes of various ICE sport car owners for the first 2-3 seconds off the line when my Bolt just "bolted" out....
 

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well I think you can do it yourself if you have a PWIS (Porsche data computer) but yeah most owners can not do this themselves…

so my 2020 Taycan Turbo is down 8% in 18 months of ownership about 0.44%/month battery capacity loss…
this is only a number reported by the BMS.
PIWIS provides 2 different state of healths (SoH), a fast and a slow value. I suppose they stated the slow value. Can you provide the mentioned printout of information?

There are also many more possible ways to determine the aging of a battery by comparing the cell valtages and SoC etc.

I would not be really concerned about that SoH value, either in the winter (okay Santa Cruz is probably not that cold) or if you did not see any real world limits, like your range is really down by 8% and you observe 8% less energy going into your battery when charging.
 

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dealer inspection @ 18k miles - I had them pull the battery capacity - it reports 92% - if it was below 80% it would trigger the warranty…I'm a bit disappointed at 8% capacity lose in less than 2 years and 20k mile - none of my Tesla's or 2 Bolts showed that type of battery degrade…

Screen Shot 2022-01-01 at 2.56.54 PM.png
Really interesting that someone has published the results of a capacity test. Do you know the cost? Thinking it would make sense to have the test done once a year, maybe when getting the tires swapped. Do you know anything about the test protocol itself? For instance, is it affected by temperature, is the capacity actually metered or is it a calculated capacity?
 

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Really interesting that someone has published the results of a capacity test. Do you know the cost? Thinking it would make sense to have the test done once a year, maybe when getting the tires swapped. Do you know anything about the test protocol itself? For instance, is it affected by temperature, is the capacity actually metered or is it a calculated capacity?
dealer did it for free as part of the 18,000 mile inspection and latest safety recall.
 

daveo4EV

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this is only a number reported by the BMS.
PIWIS provides 2 different state of healths (SoH), a fast and a slow value. I suppose they stated the slow value. Can you provide the mentioned printout of information?

There are also many more possible ways to determine the aging of a battery by comparing the cell valtages and SoC etc.

I would not be really concerned about that SoH value, either in the winter (okay Santa Cruz is probably not that cold) or if you did not see any real world limits, like your range is really down by 8% and you observe 8% less energy going into your battery when charging.
ahhh but I have noted a loss in range - when I first got the vehicle I used to be able to drive 260-270 miles - but recently I’m lucky if I can eek out 220 miles from a 100% charge - I used to think the range loss was due to moving to summer tires from all season, but now I believe it’s a combination of grippier summer tires and the 8% loss we have now measured…

270 miles * .92 = 248 miles…range with no other factors…

my 2020 Turbo Taycan is definitively down on range…and this 8% measured capacity loss is a factor in that change in behavior.

https://www.taycanforum.com/forum/t...miles-range-edit-i-think-its-the-tires….6787/
 
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dealer inspection @ 18k miles - I had them pull the battery capacity - it reports 92% - if it was below 80% it would trigger the warranty…I'm a bit disappointed at 8% capacity lose in less than 2 years and 20k mile - none of my Tesla's or 2 Bolts showed that type of battery degrade…

Screen Shot 2022-01-01 at 2.56.54 PM.png
How much did you charge to each day?
 

daveo4EV

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I don’t drive the car daily - but it’s charged over night when the battery is below 85%…depending on how busy I am the car is driven 1 to 5 times a week - some weeks only once, other weeks I’m super busy - but it’s charged overnight after use…otherwise it can sit for days @ 85% SOC waiting for me to be busy again

so it’s “charged” every day - but only when used…which is not every day.
 

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so my 2020 Taycan Turbo is down 8% in 18 months of ownership about 0.44%/month battery capacity loss…I'm not sure I"m entirely pleased with this…and I will continue to monitor - I personally would love for it to fall outside of a warranty and get a new battery from Porsche with a newer chemistry.

...so my 2020 Taycan is so far winning for the worse battery degrade I've experienced in 8/9 years of EV ownership…as I said I'll continue to track.
Last year, when car was pretty new, I charged from 0 to 100% and used 98.8 kWh displayed by the PMCC. Recently charging from 1 to 100% I only use ~78kWh. Outside temp is maybe a few degrees lower, but should not be relevant.

1641207761921.png


Battery shows clear degradation suddenly since October. The predicted range stays pretty stable, though...

Is that the best way to check degradation without PIWS?
 

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Last year, when car was pretty new, I charged from 0 to 100% and used 98.8 kWh displayed by the PMCC. Recently charging from 1 to 100% I only use ~78kWh. Outside temp is maybe a few degrees lower, but should not be relevant.
Hmmm both those numbers look suspect. If taycan can take 85 KW usable charge then 98 would imply a LOT of loss or other filling/heating process.

Same with 78 KW, that is almost 10% loss which again seems suspect. What is measuring the power delivered?
 

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Last year, when car was pretty new, I charged from 0 to 100% and used 98.8 kWh displayed by the PMCC. Recently charging from 1 to 100% I only use ~78kWh.

1641207761921.png
can you explain your Y values on you chart a bit please?

And 98.8 vs. 78 kWh sounds way more like some measuring errors, nothing that would make sense to compare.


Is that the best way to check degradation without PIWS?
the only valid 100% solution is to check the amount of energy that is stored by discharging in a controlled manner.
practical solution not beeing too bad would be checking longer trips and compare Start/End SoC displayed with the avg. consumption x trip lenght and ideally with many samples(trips). Be aware that the amount of enegry drawn out of every battery is less when using higher currents than lower ones.
 
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feye

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Hmmm both those numbers look suspect. If taycan can take 85 KW usable charge then 98 would imply a LOT of loss or other filling/heating process.

Same with 78 KW, that is almost 10% loss which again seems suspect. What is measuring the power delivered?
You might be right. I think I used a timer with precondition, but recently I switched off the preconditioning on my timers. That was sloppy. I need to make a test of two very similar charging sessions and see what the difference is.

EDIT: Just saw, that the precondition on the timer was on.
 

feye

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can you explain your Y values on you chart a bit please?
The km on the right Y axis are the predicted range:

1641260997249.png


The kWh capacity on the left is calculated by:

1641261375558.png


taking the net capacity of 83.7 kWh divided by the charging value from when the car was new 98.8 kWh (charging from 0% to 100%)...

1641261102000.png


...times the recent charging value 88.4kWh...

1641261605185.png


...divided by (SoC end 100% - SoC start 3%).

1641261801223.png


I am not a gifted math guy! Does that makes sense?

the only valid 100% solution is to check the amount of energy that is stored by discharging in a controlled manner.
practical solution not beeing too bad would be checking longer trips and compare Start/End SoC displayed with the avg. consumption x trip lenght and ideally with many samples(trips). Be aware that the amount of enegry drawn out of every battery is less when using higher currents than lower ones.
I see now, that the average consumption was quite a bit higher before, but the average consumption for the year 2021 was a stable 17.0 kWh/100km.

1641262124908.png


PM me if you want my Excel sheet. :)
 
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thedoctor

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This is such an interesting discussion. It seems like you need some electrical engineering background to fully understand this. Remember the days of discussing headers and mods and dyno testing? The world is changing.
 
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