22kw upgrade concern appearing on porsche car configurator.

whitex

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Take what I'm going to say with a pinch of salt: But my Porsche Centre (Dublin) said that it did. I'm just never super confident with what centre's say when it comes to software. They seem as confused as the rest of us!
I wonder whether the technology in cars is moving much faster than the service infrastructures are able to keep up. The job descriptions of a car technicians is changing ever closer to "IT guy" than "car guy", especially with BEV cars. IMHO this is going to be a large disruption in the car service field, as there may not be a very smooth transition from "car guy" to "car IT guy", which would mean the industry will need a whole new set of staff rather than retrain existing base. IT workers are already in short supply, and now a whole new industry will start requiring their skills. I honestly wonder how this will play out.
 
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BigBob

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I wonder whether the technology in cars is moving much faster than the service infrastructures are able to keep up. The job descriptions of a car technicians is changing ever closer to "IT guy" than "car guy", especially with BEV cars. IMHO this is going to be a large disruption in the car service field, as there may not be a very smooth transition from "car guy" to "car IT guy", which would mean the industry will need a whole new set of staff rather than retrain existing base. IT workers are already in short supply, and now a whole new industry will start requiring their skills. I honestly wonder how this will play out.
yep. I imagine not too many IT execs will want to switch over to being ‘mechanics’ / mechanics pay either.
I’m also wondering what will happen to the Porsche (or whatever brand really) specialist garages. I.e. not the main dealers, that were ideal for maintaining out of warranty cars. The guy I used for my old Panamera was great, but not sure he would have the training or facilities to do anything electric.
 

sbarker108

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Just about to lock in the final spec for my CT 4S. I had specced the 22kw on board AC charger. However, i just noticed porsche have finally got around to adding more details (on all options) on this upgrade. A little concerned to see they recommend you to keep the 11kw standard if you only have 1 phase electricity at home (like me and most in the UK) and if you do chose the upgrade (£1200) then limit it to 25a/6kw to protect it from wearing out.
Dealer told me it was a good upgrade to future proof car and benefit from 22kw charging stations at hotels/shooping centres etc. No mention (they probably didn't know) of the downsides.

Any one have some thoughts please?

This is from the info window on the configurator:
Optional On-Board AC Charger to increase maximum charging power when charging with three-phase AC up to 22kW and to shorten the charging time.

Please note that for single-phase charging (up to 7kW) the standard on-board charger is recommended.

To increase the lifetime of the 22kW on-board charger, when charging from a single-phase power supply, it is recommended to limit maximum power to 25A (6kW).
I have not optioned this and having owned an EV for a few years now I don't think there is a great deal of value in it, I've never needed it or missed out in three years of EV ownership. Reasons for me:

-> If you doing long journeys then its always going to be CCS
-> Most destination chargers I've ever used are 7kw at best, often 3kw and with the former, that should be good to get you up to 80%
-> I'd be more worried about the absence of chargers than the speed. Most hotels I've been at have 2 available if they have one at all
-> 99% of home properties are single phase so wouldn't benefit from this and that is not likely to change (maybe new build properties but I doubt it)
-> The future proof argument, well, I think that a change in battery technology to SS is more likely to be disruptive than worrying about the 22kw AC charger
-> Given the above, I doubt many people will keep a Taycan much beyond 4-5 years because as soon as you can get an EV with half (or less) the battery weight whilst at a minimum keeping the same range, who is going to want the current models.
 


whitex

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yep. I imagine not too many IT execs will want to switch over to being ‘mechanics’ / mechanics pay either.
I’m also wondering what will happen to the Porsche (or whatever brand really) specialist garages. I.e. not the main dealers, that were ideal for maintaining out of warranty cars. The guy I used for my old Panamera was great, but not sure he would have the training or facilities to do anything electric.
Since cars are becoming giant internet connected computers on wheels, you'd think the best comparison would be to PC gear or phone/tablet type gear. Unfortunately, none of those offer support for 12+ years (good luck fixing a 12 year old iPad today, not to mention it won't get the latest security patches either, meaning it would be dangerous to use it for important things like controlling a 2 ton machine going down a highway at 80 mph). I am not even sure that car manufacturers have even thought that far ahead. When Taycan is 15 years old, will Porsche still be making at least security patches to keep it functioning without becoming a giant cyber security risk? Or will they cripple the car by permanently sealing it off the internet connectivity? Or will they be offering new ECU's to replace the PCM and other modules to keep the 15 year old Taycan going? The latter would be nice, but I don't think Porsche, or the other guys, are designing to any standard to allow such future upgrades. At least not yet.
 
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BigBob

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Since cars are becoming giant internet connected computers on wheels, you'd think the best comparison would be to PC gear or phone/tablet type gear. Unfortunately, none of those offer support for 12+ years (good luck fixing a 12 year old iPad today, not to mention it won't get the latest security patches either, meaning it would be dangerous to use it for important things like controlling a 2 ton machine going down a highway at 80 mph). I am not even sure that car manufacturers have even thought that far ahead. When Taycan is 15 years old, will Porsche still be making at least security patches to keep it functioning without becoming a giant cyber security risk? Or will they cripple the car by permanently sealing it off the internet connectivity? Or will they be offering new ECU's to replace the PCM and other modules to keep the 15 year old Taycan going? The latter would be nice, but I don't think Porsche, or the other guys, are designing to any standard to allow such future upgrades. At least not yet.
i suspect you’re right, though I would note my last iPhone wasn’t £100k plus!

what happens with first gen Teslas?
 

whitex

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what happens with first gen Teslas?
For Model S (2012+) Tesla is actually still updating them, be it rarely (for Tesla standard, still 2+ times a year). They are however trying to convince owners to pay ~$2K to upgrade the main MCU (which includes the big screen infotainment, gateway, OTA and few more functions). The old MCU still works however, Tesla will even fix it for free out of warranty due to an existing recall, but it's slow for some functions, missing latest features (similar to using an old iPad that's still supported with updates) and some broken features (like the browser, which hasn't worked for years now on the old MCU). My guess is the old cars are valuable to Tesla for data collection, as in "what happens to old batteries", so it's worth it for Tesla to keep them going, even pay for their LTE connectivity (no longer free for new Teslas). Older Tesla (2008-2011 Roadster) are pretty much out of any support, but they did not rely on 24/7 connectivity (not sure if it even had 24/7 connectivity like other Teslas).

How long they will support the oldest Model S is anyone's guess. Without connectivity however, the car loses things like map navigation on the main screen (on IC still works offline), phone app functions, streaming.
 
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Having had a 22kw obc replaced in April, I had the software update to fix this carried out on a Friday in July. The following Monday it blew another 22kw obc. Ho hum. Was fun getting that out of the driveway and onto a flatbed…..
 

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I have not optioned this and having owned an EV for a few years now I don't think there is a great deal of value in it, I've never needed it or missed out in three years of EV ownership. Reasons for me:

-> If you doing long journeys then its always going to be CCS
-> Most destination chargers I've ever used are 7kw at best, often 3kw and with the former, that should be good to get you up to 80%
-> I'd be more worried about the absence of chargers than the speed. Most hotels I've been at have 2 available if they have one at all
-> 99% of home properties are single phase so wouldn't benefit from this and that is not likely to change (maybe new build properties but I doubt it)
-> The future proof argument, well, I think that a change in battery technology to SS is more likely to be disruptive than worrying about the 22kw AC charger
-> Given the above, I doubt many people will keep a Taycan much beyond 4-5 years because as soon as you can get an EV with half (or less) the battery weight whilst at a minimum keeping the same range, who is going to want the current models.
Consider if you go touring - West Coast of Ireland is riddled with 22kW AC EVSEs as is West Coast of Scotland.

In time this will improve but a case can be made if you plan trips to more remote parts but probably not a strong enough one.
 

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Since cars are becoming giant internet connected computers on wheels, you'd think the best comparison would be to PC gear or phone/tablet type gear. Unfortunately, none of those offer support for 12+ years (good luck fixing a 12 year old iPad today, not to mention it won't get the latest security patches either, meaning it would be dangerous to use it for important things like controlling a 2 ton machine going down a highway at 80 mph). I am not even sure that car manufacturers have even thought that far ahead. When Taycan is 15 years old, will Porsche still be making at least security patches to keep it functioning without becoming a giant cyber security risk? Or will they cripple the car by permanently sealing it off the internet connectivity? Or will they be offering new ECU's to replace the PCM and other modules to keep the 15 year old Taycan going? The latter would be nice, but I don't think Porsche, or the other guys, are designing to any standard to allow such future upgrades. At least not yet.
I’ve had both a refreshed autopilot computer (HW3) installed in 2020 and a few weeks ago a second generation (MCU2) infotainment ECU on my Tesla. It’s now 5 years old.
 

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Consider if you go touring - West Coast of Ireland is riddled with 22kW AC EVSEs as is West Coast of Scotland.
So what you're saying is that Celts LOVE 22kW AC electricity? We don't need any of that fancy DC stuff!

Exhibit C: Brittany is also infested with 22kW public charging.

This being one of the strangest designs I've seen (it was free to use but didn't look it) and it had "wings" that opened in the side to reveal the plug:

IMG_9739.jpeg
 
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W1NGE

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So what you're saying is that Celts LOVE 22kW AC electricity? We don't need any of that fancy DC stuff!

Exhibit C: Brittany is also infested with 22kW public charging.
There are more garages / petrol stations on the West Coast of Ireland than pubs (so I've discovered)....don't get me started on EV DC chargers!
 

simcity

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Having had a 22kw obc replaced in April, I had the software update to fix this carried out on a Friday in July. The following Monday it blew another 22kw obc. Ho hum. Was fun getting that out of the driveway and onto a flatbed…..
I had a recollection (need to search) the software update was for a “harmonic” resolution - is this the root cause of the failures seen or something else?

Perhaps @tigerbalm could clue us in based on his discussions with the Porsche hierarchy over the issue?

[been tracking this thread with interest, as my order goes in to lock this month and I have spec’d this item - saving grace is that I have charge on 3-phase AC when home/work and mostly use a mixture of 50 kW and above DC on extended trips.]
 

 
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