22kw upgrade concern appearing on porsche car configurator.

xy911jk

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Can we limit it to 6kW from the Taycan side as its one thing throttling my home charge point but what about single phase destination chargers?

@tigerbalm , you got any insight into this having a 22kW unit?
No you can't. But you can do it via the mobile charger if you have the optional Porsche Mobile Charger Connect (not the standard Mobile Charger Plus).
Most destination chargers are 3Phases (and all public 22Kw chargers, I believe)
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W1NGE

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Just about to lock in the final spec for my CT 4S. I had specced the 22kw on board AC charger. However, i just noticed porsche have finally got around to adding more details (on all options) on this upgrade. A little concerned to see they recommend you to keep the 11kw standard if you only have 1 phase electricity at home (like me and most in the UK) and if you do chose the upgrade (£1200) then limit it to 25a/6kw to protect it from wearing out.
Dealer told me it was a good upgrade to future proof car and benefit from 22kw charging stations at hotels/shooping centres etc. No mention (they probably didn't know) of the downsides.

Any one have some thoughts please?

This is from the info window on the configurator:
Optional On-Board AC Charger to increase maximum charging power when charging with three-phase AC up to 22kW and to shorten the charging time.

Please note that for single-phase charging (up to 7kW) the standard on-board charger is recommended.

To increase the lifetime of the 22kW on-board charger, when charging from a single-phase power supply, it is recommended to limit maximum power to 25A (6kW).
Depends how you read / interpret this.

1. Easy to set either a PMC+ or PMCC to 25A (or close to) for home charging if on single phase. For public 22kW nothing to worry about.

2. If you have 3 phase at home then nothing to worry about.

3. You have a 3 year warranty (renewable) so really nothing to worry about except should something fail and the inconvenience that brings.

Only downside I see is the reduced power at home leading to a longer charging window.

What am I missing?
 

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Just about to lock in the final spec for my CT 4S. I had specced the 22kw on board AC charger. However, i just noticed porsche have finally got around to adding more details (on all options) on this upgrade. A little concerned to see they recommend you to keep the 11kw standard if you only have 1 phase electricity at home (like me and most in the UK) and if you do chose the upgrade (£1200) then limit it to 25a/6kw to protect it from wearing out.
Dealer told me it was a good upgrade to future proof car and benefit from 22kw charging stations at hotels/shooping centres etc. No mention (they probably didn't know) of the downsides.

Any one have some thoughts please?

This is from the info window on the configurator:
Optional On-Board AC Charger to increase maximum charging power when charging with three-phase AC up to 22kW and to shorten the charging time.

Please note that for single-phase charging (up to 7kW) the standard on-board charger is recommended.

To increase the lifetime of the 22kW on-board charger, when charging from a single-phase power supply, it is recommended to limit maximum power to 25A (6kW).
I hadn't seen this but had already decided the 22kW option was pointless for me.

I only have single phase at home and that is where I will charge 98% of the time.

When I charge away from home it will either be at a high speed charger, which is DC, or at a house I am visiting which will also be single phase, so I would literally never benefit from 22kW AC, and it is blo*dy expensive IMO.

I think if you are a business owner and plan to mainly charge your car at the company's expense and fit a 3-phase charger at work it may be worthwhile, but £1200 buys a LOT of electricity, so still probably a pointless expense IMO.

There is a small time saving of course, but if speed is of the essence a DC charger is a much better bet anyway, again IMHO.
 

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I hadn't seen this but had already decided the 22kW option was pointless for me.

I only have single phase at home and that is where I will charge 98% of the time.

When I charge away from home it will either be at a high speed charger, which is DC, or at a house I am visiting which will also be single phase, so I would literally never benefit from 22kW AC, and it is blo*dy expensive IMO.

I think if you are a business owner and plan to mainly charge your car at the company's expense and fit a 3-phase charger at work it may be worthwhile, but £1200 buys a LOT of electricity, so still probably a pointless expense IMO.

There is a small time saving of course, but if speed is of the essence a DC charger is a much better bet anyway, again IMHO.
Can see you have a wide and varied selection of vehicles (nice) so different for you. This will be my only car and a 4 year “treat” before back to stuffing the mattress so plan a lot of road trips. Simply want maximum charging flexibility away from main routes and also expect a lot of DC charger contention in the next few years as the sudden increase in EV ownership is lagged by proper large scale DC sites. Worst comes to the worst, 22kW for an hours lunch is a decent 25% ish SoC to get to a less congested or (not broken) DC site.
 

tigerbalm

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What am I missing?
From my perspective – sticking something as important as this into the configurator but with little context is the problem for me.
  • Are existing owners (MY21) with this option impacted ?
  • Can existing owners have the confidence that Porsche would pro-actively communicate any new advice/details to them?
  • Would/will the Good To Know app's be updated with this new advice ?
  • Will owners that spec this option going forward have some concrete advice around it in the cars owners manual/app ?
  • Will dealers tell new customers specifying this option the new advice around this option ?
  • Will Porsche ever clarify what "increase the lifetime of the charger" actually means in practical terms ?
  • Why are Porsche putting in a component with such a tradeoff ?
  • Will the PCM be updated in any way to assist owners make the right decisions regarding day-to-day usage of this option ?
  • Why is this advice only appearing on only some (European English Language??) configurators ?
I appreciate that it might very well be the case that:
  • This only applies to cars configured going forward
  • Will be clearly documented
  • Doesn't impact "historical" cars
In which case – Porsche – is probably handling this perfectly fine, but at this stage, it is unclear.
 
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My order is now locked in for February delivery. I selected 22kw charger for on the move charging flexibility. I'll do charging at my primary home but I have an apartment for work with no charger. Even if I could change the option I won't. I'll roll the dice. If it breaks then Porsche fixes it. I won't keep the car beyond warranty period anyways.
 

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I hadn't seen this but had already decided the 22kW option was pointless for me.

I only have single phase at home and that is where I will charge 98% of the time.

When I charge away from home it will either be at a high speed charger, which is DC, or at a house I am visiting which will also be single phase, so I would literally never benefit from 22kW AC, and it is blo*dy expensive IMO.

I think if you are a business owner and plan to mainly charge your car at the company's expense and fit a 3-phase charger at work it may be worthwhile, but £1200 buys a LOT of electricity, so still probably a pointless expense IMO.

There is a small time saving of course, but if speed is of the essence a DC charger is a much better bet anyway, again IMHO.
The time saving is 50% compared to the 11 kw charger. I wouldn’t consider it small if you have the possibility to use it. For me this makes the difference between using a cheaper destination charger during a 3 hour visit or having to stop on the way back and an expensive 15 minutes super charger (not a big deal if necessary). In your case it would be a waste of money indeed.
 

W1NGE

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From my perspective – sticking something as important as this into the configurator but with little context is the problem for me.
  • Are existing owners (MY21) with this option impacted ?
  • Can existing owners have the confidence that Porsche would pro-actively communicate any new advice/details to them?
  • Would/will the Good To Know app's be updated with this new advice ?
  • Will owners that spec this option going forward have some concrete advice around it in the cars owners manual/app ?
  • Will dealers tell new customers specifying this option the new advice around this option ?
  • Will Porsche ever clarify what "increase the lifetime of the charger" actually means in practical terms ?
  • Why are Porsche putting in a component with such a tradeoff ?
  • Will the PCM be updated in any way to assist owners make the right decisions regarding day-to-day usage of this option ?
  • Why is this advice only appearing on only some (European English Language??) configurators ?
I appreciate that it might very well be the case that:
  • This only applies to cars configured going forward
  • Will be clearly documented
  • Doesn't impact "historical" cars
In which case – Porsche – is probably handling this perfectly fine, but at this stage, it is unclear.
I understand but this is no different to the recommended max charge for the HV battery - 85% or 80% - Porsche have not formally informed owners nor have they updated the high water mark on either the app or PCM if this is indeed now a "recommendation" or not.

I suspect this latest guidance is as a result of real world data and issues people have had (not least in your case) however to not make this a more prominent statement and not contact existing customers suggests it's only a half-hearted measure.
 


W1NGE

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No you can't. But you can do it via the mobile charger if you have the optional Porsche Mobile Charger Connect (not the standard Mobile Charger Plus).
Most destination chargers are 3Phases (and all public 22Kw chargers, I believe)
Just thinking on this further, if this 'guidance' is a serious consideration then Porsche should be able to software limit any charge (amps reduction) it consumes from a domestic 22kW AC charger. The charging process is controlled by the car and so it must be possible for an automated handshake to make the necessary adjustment (it does this today, right?), notify the user of the choke in place, and make it non-user changeable.
 

whitex

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Just thinking on this further, if this 'guidance' is a serious consideration then Porsche should be able to software limit any charge (amps reduction) it consumes from a domestic 22kW AC charger. The charging process is controlled by the car and so it must be possible for an automated handshake to make the necessary adjustment (it does this today, right?), notify the user of the choke in place, and make it non-user changeable.
I suspect that software is coming, but they are not Tesla who:
  1. Own the whole software stack (very likely the Porsche charger in the car is designed and software implemented by a large Tier 1 supplier like Bosch for example)
  2. Practices "Agile Continuous Integration" - OTA updates things weekly if needed and let the customers test it out, then fix if still broken or new things broken
I'm thinking the limit will probably be included in the next annual software update, and/or a new redesigned charger will come which will not need that limit.
 

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very likely the Porsche charger in the car is designed and software implemented by a large Tier 1 supplier like Bosch for example)
I can't remember where I saw it – but I have a strong hunch that the 22kW charger – or at lest the unit that failed twice for me – comes from Hitachi.
 

whitex

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I can't remember where I saw it – but I have a strong hunch that the 22kW charger – or at lest the unit that failed twice for me – comes from Hitachi.
I don't have personal experience with Hitachi, but if they work like other Tier 1 automotive suppliers, to add a limiting feature to the charger you're probably looking 6-12 month from request to software implemented, validated, documented, safety certified, ready for deployment. Automotive software does not move as fast as phone app or cloud development. Tesla is an exception of course, but they are taking risks no established automotive company is willing to take.
 

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I don't have personal experience with Hitachi, but if they work like other Tier 1 automotive suppliers, to add a limiting feature to the charger you're probably looking 6-12 month from request to software implemented, validated, documented, safety certified, ready for deployment. Automotive software does not move as fast as phone app or cloud development. Tesla is an exception of course, but they are taking risks no established automotive company is willing to take.
I'll just have my home charger limited to 24A (long term likely to move and will get 3-phase at that point) as my journey profile is mainly long trips and charging at home isn't something I find limiting (also about 0.5 miles from an OPC 350kW...)


Not an electrical engineer but am interested as to why this issue might have arisen? Surely for 22kW you are at 3x32A so why would 1x32A cause an issue? Unless the 22kW charger is only actually working at 17.2kW 25A ..but in that case it can already limit to 25A per phase and ..I've gone cross-eyed.
 
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Just about to lock in the final spec for my CT 4S. I had specced the 22kw on board AC charger. However, i just noticed porsche have finally got around to adding more details (on all options) on this upgrade. A little concerned to see they recommend you to keep the 11kw standard if you only have 1 phase electricity at home (like me and most in the UK) and if you do chose the upgrade (£1200) then limit it to 25a/6kw to protect it from wearing out.
Dealer told me it was a good upgrade to future proof car and benefit from 22kw charging stations at hotels/shooping centres etc. No mention (they probably didn't know) of the downsides.

Any one have some thoughts please?

This is from the info window on the configurator:
Optional On-Board AC Charger to increase maximum charging power when charging with three-phase AC up to 22kW and to shorten the charging time.

Please note that for single-phase charging (up to 7kW) the standard on-board charger is recommended.

To increase the lifetime of the 22kW on-board charger, when charging from a single-phase power supply, it is recommended to limit maximum power to 25A (6kW).
Could somebody please post a screenshot of this text from the UK configurator? I would like to ask PCNA if this has any bearing on the safety or duty cycle of the (as-named in US market) 19.2kW Onboard Charger which presumably is the same equipment just subject to a US limit of 80A.

Also, bat signal out to @daveo4EV for his thoughts on this potential new concern.
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