336 Miles at 100%!

f1eng

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When Formula 1 effectively first had a fuel consumption limit (with fuel tank size limited and no refuelling allowed) in 1986 we did a lot of studies on what influenced fuel used, which is exactly equivalent to range.
There were the normal engineering solutions but driving style had a very strong impact even at the same lap time.
Some drivers have great mechanical sympathy, some don't.

I do think people get over concerned by range though, probably because marketing and press people, and the plethora of youtube warriors go on and o (and on, and on) about it.
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farazkhu2

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Not sure if I can get 300 but seems like at 100% it may hit 260/270.

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Silveral

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same here, barley 235 at 100% or 207 at 85% ..AC On all time at 70 and Sport mode
and same here. 230ish at 100%. I driver her hard each and every time I can. Always Sport Mode with regen on. I also doubt the real range hits 200 miles
 

XLR82XS

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kort

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If you want to hypermile great, most of us want to drive at highway speeds or even more spirited. If I get over 225 miles per 100% SOC I’m fine, providing that I can get a charge from the terrible EA network.
 

Skilly

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Theres a lot going on in this thread! Couple of thoughts...
  1. we get pretty wrapped around the EPA published ratings but as a general rule, Taycan seems to consistently over deliver on that rating.
  2. ratings that the car provides vary and anyone who has ever driven a car knows this is a constant. Electric or ICE. In the electric it's much more obvious because "fuel" is represented as mileage left remaining. Fuel does exactly the same thing, and IMHO those gauges are FAR more inaccurate, and the EPA ratings are about as helpful there too.
  3. charging infra is going to make a lot of this go away. Then, the charging rate speed becomes the new bottleneck, or focus area.
FWIW, I have had a P100 X and a P85D - in both instances they would show a full charge somewhere around 220 miles. If I got through 150 of them before it started to get dicey with the remaining charge falling off of a cliff (the LithIon cliff) it was rare. Under the same theme, I have an ICE car that seems to be MUCH more fuel efficient on the top have of the gauge than the bottom. If I had a worry about where fuel was going to be on my journey Id be really concerned with the gauge and its inaccuracy.

The two things that make this a non-issue for me are the Taycan seems to consistent in its ability to deliver more than 200 miles in range driving it like a regular car, and second, there is an infrastructure that it can levage that while its shaking out its bugs, does have a lot of backing to be the future backbone for longer drives.

Finally, the Taycan DC charging is impressive, so much so, that range again, becomes even less of an issue with access to it. If Lucid has a 500 mile range but takes 2x as long to charge then it's not as disruptive as it would seem focusing on battery only.
 

Windpower

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If I got through 150 of them before it started to get dicey with the remaining charge falling off of a cliff (the LithIon cliff) it was rare
Ditto on my Tesla Y. I charge weekly to 85% and I get maybe to 200 miles when I recharge. My daily commute is 32 miles round trip.
Extrapolating this week:
85% start - 9% end = 76%
196 miles driven
196 / .76 = 258 miles estimated full range at 100%
The Tesla 'guess-o-meter' after the charge was 292 miles and I got 258 miles this week. The EPA (when I bought my car) was 313 miles. "Over promise and under deliver"?
 

DNADoc

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I don't think Porsche had a choice in quoting range....That is established by EPA. What I don't understand is why Tesla can get away with what they do...<shaking head>. I had a listed 210 mile range with 100% of performance battery plus when I drove off the lot but now I am up to 288 mi on a 100% charge.

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Silveral

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I am trying for once to not "drive it like I stole it" and I am having fun driving in Range Mode. The Range is diminishing MUCH slower and I might be able to get a decent number at the end. True that, doing 1-2 Launch Controls per day hurts the range......Still loving every second of the 4S.....!
 

fullmetalbaal

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Ditto on my Tesla Y. I charge weekly to 85% and I get maybe to 200 miles when I recharge. My daily commute is 32 miles round trip.
Extrapolating this week:
85% start - 9% end = 76%
196 miles driven
196 / .76 = 258 miles estimated full range at 100%
The Tesla 'guess-o-meter' after the charge was 292 miles and I got 258 miles this week. The EPA (when I bought my car) was 313 miles. "Over promise and under deliver"?
I don't think Porsche had a choice in quoting range....That is established by EPA. What I don't understand is why Tesla can get away with what they do...<shaking head>. I had a listed 210 mile range with 100% of performance battery plus when I drove off the lot but now I am up to 288 mi on a 100% charge.

Buck

Like comments before have said, driving style, tires, temperature all meaningfully impact this. The question is, if you drive it like EPA measures (sorry, no 80mph on the highway), do you get close to the EPA range? Do you have the sports tires or the standard wheels and tires?

I've put 20K miles on a Model 3 and averaged 247 wh/mile. Our current Model X has 310 wh/mile over the last 9k miles - including >3k miles of road trips with long stretches of 70+ mph on highways. I'm pretty confident that a 2021 Tesla with the stock wheels & tires, driven in the EPA mix and speeds gets pretty close to the rating (which also assumes no heating / no AC, etc.).

The same is true for ratings provided by Porsche btw. Including the ACMI testing Porsche had done: it assumes no heating/AC for many of their stages.

I don't think Porsche was intentionally conservative. I have not had a chance to do a longer road trip with mine....and in city traffic + some slow highway (e.g. EPA), I have been struggling to get lower than 400 wh/mile.

I think we need to rethink EPA cycles a bit for EVs.
What matters most for range is "can I do longer stints between chargers on a highway"?
The EPA test has the speed, but they don't really stay in the car for that long. I think the Taycan gets WAY more efficient once it's up to temp, and that seems to take 5-10 minutes. IIRC the full highway step in EPA is ~10 min, so by the time the Taycan is starting to show some efficiency, the test is over...
That test made sense for ICE, but for EVs IMHO they need a drive from A to B at highway speeds for 1 hour.

(This is not unique to Taycan, I think many EVs would show better / more realistic numbers in that world.)
 

Skilly

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I think we need to rethink EPA cycles a bit for EVs.
I think we need to remind ourselves how accurate EPA standards are overall. Which is an oxymoron if I ever saw one.

We are getting wrapped around the accuracy of a mileage marker measured against historical consumption. Every ICE car has this DTE measurement. In that, does anybody bypass the fuel gauge and defer to this to confirm refueling intervals? Moreover, how many threads show up on Rennlist about the 911 TT DTE inaccuracy? For some reason, EVs have this as a baseline and lots of friction when it's inaccurate....which it always will be - its borne from the same concepts used in ICE vehicles.

The EPA is at best perfect math and they have been showing us how inaccurate their tests are for years with ICE vehicles. We also have learned how driving styles and conditions impact this. Why would electric vehicles be able to target on an exact figure when in the history of automobiles it's never been done. Ever.
 

kort

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Finally, the Taycan DC charging is impressive, so much so, that range again, becomes even less of an issue with access to it.
the EA network is wonky at best and is a big issue. until EA gets their stations 100% reliable road tripping can still be a frustrating adventure.
 
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