400v charging upgrade - now a must have with Tesla network in NA?

[kev0927]

Tesla opening up their network for 3rd party cars by end of the year seems almost certain.
so even though electrify America in NA are 800v. Aren’t all Tesla super chargers 400v?

If this becomes a reality and Porsche allows us to charge with Tesla network. The 150kW upgrade for 400v option is all of a sudden a must have.
This goes against the common forum / EV press wisdom for NA market.

thoughts?

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[BTN1]

Agree if opens up will give you so many more options. What interface do will you use to charge however? Tesla Tap?

 

[hshm]

My main concern is resale value. I think Taycans without this option (like mine) will take a big hit on the resale market since they won't be compatible with the Tesla Supercharger network AFAIK.

Personally, I don't think I'll ever use the Tesla Supercharger network. I charge at the office for free via ChargePoint and I have a level 2 charger installed at home. For long trips, I'll use EA chargers since they are also free to use.

 

[daveo4EV]

it’s not entirely clear what will be required for compatibility with the Tesla network - Elon suggested in his tweet that an adapter would be required/provided for North American CCS EV’s - this makes sense, but what was left unsaid is the maximum KW rating of the Adapter (or any technical details for that matter)

One example adapter that exists today for allowing Tesla’s to access Chademo FastDC chargers is limited to 50 kW…so that could be a model for a CCS adapter.

if it’s limited to 50 kW I don’t see much advantage to the Supercharger network - I have a lot of access to 50 kW CCS chargers (ChargePoint & EVGo).

so until we have technical details (which we sorely lack right now) it’s not yet a clear win for the 400V/150kW proponents (of which I am one).

I still this is a $460 option that is well worth it cause ya’never know what the charging landscape will throw at you no matter how hard you try - it’s literally less money than Porsche charges for the 9.6 kW L2 PMCC - and almost equal money to what Porsche service partrs will charge you for a NEMA supply cable….

If we have access to > 50 kW charging via adapter on the Supercharger network then this option may be highly desirable - time will tell.

 

[XLR82XS]

I still this is a $460 option that is well worth it cause ya’never know what the charging landscape will throw at you no matter how hard you try - it’s literally less money than Porsche charges for the 9.6 kW L2 PMCC - and almost equal money to what Porsche service partrs will charge you for a NEMA supply cable….

If we have access to > 50 kW charging via adapter on the Supercharger network then this option may be highly desirable - time will tell.

I didn't even know about the DC option until my salesmen advised me of it and suggested I order it. I did.

 

[kev0927]

My main concern is resale value. I think Taycans without this option (like mine) will take a big hit on the resale market since they won't be compatible with the Tesla Supercharger network AFAIK.

I would've done exactly the same - I had no intention of including this feature in my build - I was annoyed that my dealer speced car I bought off the lot had this feature. Now I'm kinda glad it does.
But as Daveo4EV said above let's wait and see.

But if I were optioning a car right now. I'd definitely just pay the $480 for resale value.

 

[kev0927]

it’s not entirely clear what will be required for compatibility with the Tesla network - Elon suggested in his tweet that an adapter would be required/provided for North American CCS EV’s - this makes sense, but what was left unsaid is the maximum KW rating of the Adapter (or any technical details for that matter)

One example adapter that exists today for allowing Tesla’s to access Chademo FastDC chargers is limited to 50 kW…so that could be a model for a CCS adapter.

If we have access to > 50 kW charging via adapter on the Supercharger network then this option may be highly desirable - time will tell.

Excellent points. Let's see how it pans out - Elon had mentioned sharing costs with 3rd party. I'd imagine it's the adapter cost. 150kw adapters can't be cheap.

 

[daveo4EV]

I wish list is as follows:

1. > 50 kW support
2. Plug & Charge Support
3. extra cable length to deal with the short "cable" length
4. excellent status via the Tesla App for charging session control
5. $749 or less adapter cost

we'll see how this plays out

 

[chrisk]

I wish list is as follows:

1. > 50 kW support
2. Plug & Charge Support
3. extra cable length to deal with the short "cable" length
4. excellent status via the Tesla App for charging session control
5. $749 or less adapter cost

we'll see how this plays out

In my wishlist the adapter is available at the Supercharger (for a small fee) and I don't have to buy one.

 

[Reg]

Tesla opening up their network for 3rd party cars by end of the year seems almost certain.
thoughts?

If you base "all but certain" on something that the CEO is forecasting, I expect you will be surprised by the reality.

 

[kev0927]

it’s not entirely clear what will be required for compatibility with the Tesla network - Elon suggested in his tweet that an adapter would be required/provided for North American CCS EV’s - this makes sense, but what was left unsaid is the maximum KW rating of the Adapter (or any technical details for that matter)

One example adapter that exists today for allowing Tesla’s to access Chademo FastDC chargers is limited to 50 kW…so that could be a model for a CCS adapter.

if it’s limited to 50 kW I don’t see much advantage to the Supercharger network - I have a lot of access to 50 kW CCS chargers (ChargePoint & EVGo).

so until we have technical details (which we sorely lack right now) it’s not yet a clear win for the 400V/150kW proponents (of which I am one).

I still this is a $460 option that is well worth it cause ya’never know what the charging landscape will throw at you no matter how hard you try - it’s literally less money than Porsche charges for the 9.6 kW L2 PMCC - and almost equal money to what Porsche service partrs will charge you for a NEMA supply cable….

If we have access to > 50 kW charging via adapter on the Supercharger network then this option may be highly desirable - time will tell.

If you base "all but certain" on something that the CEO is forecasting, I expect you will be surprised by the reality.

True. Especially with Elon “2-weeks away”

but I do see the business case for Tesla. Doing this will let them expand their network and brand further. Take momentum away from EA and others.

I’ll speculate, upcoming discussion on $65 billion government funds allocated for charging infrastructure has something to do with it. I doubt government would provide it to proprietary chargers. Opening up could allow Tesla access to these funds. Taking even more $$ away from other networks.

 

[rich_r]

I’ll speculate, upcoming discussion on $65 billion government funds allocated for charging infrastructure has something to do with it. I doubt government would provide it to proprietary chargers. Opening up could allow Tesla access to these funds. Taking even more $$ away from other networks.

Ah...that last point is the first believable reason I've read for why Tesla could be motivated to open up their network... No other reasons really held water which made me think Elon was huffing and puffing to get attention (as usual).

 

[Mike in CA]

I was feeling a bit like I was foolish for having paid for the 400V option. Not so much now.

 

[Miwa]

I have the 400V option, but any supercharger usage would only be for emergencies anyway, so even if I could only get 50kW there, it'd be enough to get to the next CCS charger.

 

[Reg]

Ah...that last point is the first believable reason I've read for why Tesla could be motivated to open up their network... No other reasons really held water which made me think Elon was huffing and puffing to get attention (as usual).

Certainly that...but also to convince investors that they have a new subscription-like revenue source - especially after he admitted that FSD as a subscription was "debatable".

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