6 months in with 4S - the great/good, the bad/ugly

[Sparky]

Porsche are not building the software. They use this company… https://cariad.technology/de/en.html

So unfortunately I don’t think we will ever see the quality of software we’re looking for unless enough of us complain to both Porsche and Cariad in some very public ways.

Cariad is owned by Volkswagen - heard an interview with VW CEO; he indicated that all VW electrics will have the same core software with the Brands tailoring the U/I to match each's brand philosophy.

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[adamandsheri]

Would you buy again knowing what you know today?

2022 RWD has only 2k miles but is our daily driver and we couldn't be happier with it. Wife is petrified of car issues and the rare PCM glitches don't seem to concern her. As someone else said, how the car drives and looks outweighs any glitches.

I think there may also be a cost factor. My 2022 RWD with all of the options I wanted was $107k and with the cost of gas factored in, it's cheaper than my previous car (Macan GTS), so my expectations may be lower than someone who paid $175k. That and I have worked in technology for the last 30 years and I know firsthand it all kinda sucks.

 

[schad]

My perspective is that the way the car drives offsets all of the minor software glitches that affect the vehicle. All of your complaints, but one, are about the electronics of the vehicle.

Which is not to say the complaints aren't genuine, just that not all problems are created equal.

I will say that I sometimes get ticked off that Porsche gets the most challenging stuff so right, and the easy stuff so very, very wrong.

 

[356B]

@mod72346

Appreciate you sharing your perspective about the first 6 months of ownership, but after 20 months of ownership, and 25,000 miles, I have a different perspective.

My perspective is that the way the car drives offsets all of the minor software glitches that affect the vehicle. All of your complaints, but one, are about the electronics of the vehicle.

If I wanted a vehicle that prioritized electronics, but drove sloppily, I would have bought another Model S. Do the messages about Sirius/XM bother me? Nope, because I know the car climbs, descends, corners, and accelerates like no other.

I guess it is all about what is important to you. Wonky electronics are what they are, but I don't let it detract from what the vehicle actually is - an amazingly fun car to drive.

My ramblings (rationalization?) on this subject
I have come to the same conclusion as "thecoloradokid". I have gotten over the same disappointments in software and instrument displays and enjoy the quality of ride and performance of this car. The software seems to be more dependable than 5 months ago. It would appear that even though it says map or calendar updates, there are basic sofware system dependability updates in the OTA.

Porsche is not a software company, but will have to learn to adapt in the electric age. I have a 2022 Panamera 4 in transit from Emden and I debated finding a 2021 with PCM 5 rather than a 2022 PCM 6. Here are my deciding factors (for better or worse) regarding PCM 6:

PCM 6 advantages to PCM 5
1) Less complex interface. ICONS are larger, Less choices crammed on a single screen to distract the driver
2) Carplay fills the display, so text on maps is more readable.
3) OTA promises to let PCM mature with improvements that don't require a visit to the dealer. On the other hand, there appears to be no deliberate user feedback process for product improvement.
4) Limited home screen configurability. Can't default to Home screen #2.

PCM 5 vs PCM 6.
1) More responsive interface, detection of hand that pops up secondary choices on left menus.
2) Sexier, more polished visual interface with color accents, rather than "black and white" buttons.

3) Somewhat infinite home screen user configurability. Can configure information on home screen as well as a number of touch screen buttons.

Question to PCM 5 owners... Does PCM 5 still have a number of bugs:? Indications from this thread is that PCM 5 still acts up. So PCM 6 OTA can be an advantage (if properly implemented).

Final observations from seeing 2022 PCM 6 in Panamera:
1) Panamera retains "hardware" buttons to switch PCM 6 which provide more direct access to different screens. It has the newer 5 Button menu on left side interface. It seems a little faster. I would expect to see some update to the Taycans to this interface.
2) Tube choice selection in instrument panel "rolls" through the different screens. Taycan is a "Roll, select, Roll Select" method of changing tube displays.

I hope OTA meets our expectations of easy updates to get PCM 6 looking / acting the same across the product line.

But I agree, the drive far outweighs the software experience.

 

[John89]

Great driving car, undoubtedly. Winter range is abysmal and car is sitting for a bit in garage. Glitches are pretty commonplace and they are annoying. PCM and Carplay are always an issue, it's just unacceptable that a car this expensive has these issues. A couple buddies and I are thinking about selling our cars.

 

[Silveral]

9 Months in my Taycan 4S. I agree with most of the review of the OP, although I've been much luckier in terms of software glitches, but I personally think that either way, this is by far the best driving experience I have ever had. And I had recent 911s brand new and drove many other sports cars. This is insanely sleek, fast, silent, exotic and you can drive it on any ramp or curve at a speed that I haven't experienced elsewhere. Would I be happier if software was better? Of course yes, but nonetheless it's every day big grin on my face...spaceship fast. Loving it. So for those who are waiting, don't give up and be prepared for a great experience!

 

[SergeyIndy]

My ramblings (rationalization?) on this subject
I have come to the same conclusion as "thecoloradokid". I have gotten over the same disappointments in software and instrument displays and enjoy the quality of ride and performance of this car. The software seems to be more dependable than 5 months ago. It would appear that even though it says map or calendar updates, there are basic sofware system dependability updates in the OTA.

Porsche is not a software company, but will have to learn to adapt in the electric age. I have a 2022 Panamera 4 in transit from Emden and I debated finding a 2021 with PCM 5 rather than a 2022 PCM 6. Here are my deciding factors (for better or worse) regarding PCM 6:

PCM 6 advantages to PCM 5
1) Less complex interface. ICONS are larger, Less choices crammed on a single screen to distract the driver
2) Carplay fills the display, so text on maps is more readable.
3) OTA promises to let PCM mature with improvements that don't require a visit to the dealer. On the other hand, there appears to be no deliberate user feedback process for product improvement.
4) Limited home screen configurability. Can't default to Home screen #2.

PCM 5 vs PCM 6.
1) More responsive interface, detection of hand that pops up secondary choices on left menus.
2) Sexier, more polished visual interface with color accents, rather than "black and white" buttons.

3) Somewhat infinite home screen user configurability. Can configure information on home screen as well as a number of touch screen buttons.

Question to PCM 5 owners... Does PCM 5 still have a number of bugs:? Indications from this thread is that PCM 5 still acts up. So PCM 6 OTA can be an advantage (if properly implemented).

Final observations from seeing 2022 PCM 6 in Panamera:
1) Panamera retains "hardware" buttons to switch PCM 6 which provide more direct access to different screens. It has the newer 5 Button menu on left side interface. It seems a little faster. I would expect to see some update to the Taycans to this interface.
2) Tube choice selection in instrument panel "rolls" through the different screens. Taycan is a "Roll, select, Roll Select" method of changing tube displays.

I hope OTA meets our expectations of easy updates to get PCM 6 looking / acting the same across the product line.

But I agree, the drive far outweighs the software experience.

I only have PCM 5 in the 2020 Cayenne and it is almost perfect (wish it had Android Auto) compare to Taycan testers I drove. Cayenne's PCM5 speed is good, configurable, interface is very slick as you say and I was thinking well I am missing out on PCM 6 introduced on 2022 range (on the Cayenne). I do not experience any glitches, pop-ups, XM disappearing, Connect login issues. My point is that Porche knows how to do it with PCM 5 for the Cayenne but not for the Taycan with PCM 6 as my testers were all very slow to boot up, slow to operate, missing XM radio for a period of time, Plug n Charge did not work even one time, Key not found when moving, rear camera view is mind bending to look at. I thought what a mess after having my Cayenne for 2 years now with PCM 5 with zero issues or annoyances including Porche App that is of course limited use on the Cayenne but I can remotely see status, location, lock/unlock but only recently oil level is not showing any more which is not a big deal as it warned me on its own and I just added a quart.

 

[thecoloradokid]

I only have PCM 5 in the 2020 Cayenne and it is almost perfect (wish it had Android Auto) compare to Taycan testers I drove. Speed is good, configurable, interface is very slick as you say and I was thinking well I am missing out on PCM 6 introduced on 2022 range. I do not experience any glitches, pop-ups, XM disappearing, Connect login issues. My point is that Porche knows how to do it with PCM 5 but not for the Taycan with PCM 6 as my testers were all very slow to boot up, slow to operate, missing XM radio for a period of time, Plug n Charge did not work even one time, Key not found when moving, rear camera view is mind bending to look at. I thought what a mess after having my Cayenne for 2 years now with PCM 5 with zero issues or annoyances including Porche App that is of course limited use on the Cayenne but I can remotely see status, location, lock/unlock but only recently oil level is not showing any more which is not a big deal as it warned me on its own and I just added a quart.

This is your opinion from test driving a Taycan? Can you elaborate?

 

[SergeyIndy]

This is your opinion from test driving a Taycan? Can you elaborate?

The good experiences are all from driving my 2020 Cayenne with PCM 5 if that was confusing.
All the bad experiences are from driving dealer's 2021 4S and 2022 Base with PCM 6.
I was about to place the order for 2022 4S this month but backed out based on PCM 6 issues during my testing. My view is that this will all be fixed in time so I am taking the time to see when they get fixed and then may be placing an order for a 2023. My dealer said the allocations may open up for those as soon as May.

 

[rich_r]

Cariad is owned by Volkswagen - heard an interview with VW CEO; he indicated that all VW electrics will have the same core software with the Brands tailoring the U/I to match each's brand philosophy.

Yep... and VW have had lots of problems with the new infotainment software on VWs as well. They actually had to stop production of the ID3/4 when they first came out because it was so bad. If you read reviews of the VW versions you'll read horror stories as well. Apparently the whole fiasco has led to the guy who was in charge of software being demoted:
https://insideevs.com/news/433908/volkswagen-allegedly-demotes-head-software/

So...i'd imagine that they are well aware of the problems but it will take time to complete re-architect and fix it. Probably not just a matter of simple bug fixes unfortunately. My guess is that they'll try to limp along with the current setup and fix the bugs they can, but that it won't get much better until the next gen system (they seem to introduce a new gen every 3-4 years). One odd thing is that there seem to be much fewer complaints about the Audi versions...if that's true maybe there's hope.

 

[thecoloradokid]

The good experiences are all from driving my 2020 Cayenne with PCM 5 if that was confusing.
All the bad experiences are from driving dealer's 2021 4S and 2022 Base with PCM 6.
I as about to place the order for 4S this month but backed out based on PCM 6 issues during my testing. My view is that this will all be fixed in time so I am taking the time to see when they get fixed and then may be placing an order for a 2023. My dealer said the allocations may open up for those as soon as May.

The good experiences are all from driving my 2020 Cayenne with PCM 5 if that was confusing.
All the bad experiences are from driving dealer's 2021 4S and 2022 Base with PCM 6.
I was about to place the order for 2022 4S this month but backed out based on PCM 6 issues during my testing. My view is that this will all be fixed in time so I am taking the time to see when they get fixed and then may be placing an order for a 2023. My dealer said the allocations may open up for those as soon as May.

Not trying to be rude, but if you value the PCM more than the vehicle's driving characteristics, maybe the Taycan is not for you.

There are no guarantees that any of the items you complained about will be fixed in the 2023 model year, so why would you order a vehicle with a user interface that you have so many complaints about?

Maybe a Model S might be better for you since it has a slick user interface and that is what is most important to you?

 

[SergeyIndy]

Not trying to be rude, but if you value the PCM more than the vehicle's driving characteristics, maybe the Taycan is not for you.

There are no guarantees that any of the items you complained about will be fixed in the 2023 model year, so why would you order a vehicle with a user interface that you have so many complaints about?

Maybe a Model S might be better for you since it has a slick user interface and that is what is most important to you?

I totally understand that there are no guarantees, so I paused on my order and keeping hope by taking my time. My approach is to keep checking on the latest deliveries and owner experiences and then make a decision. I am not interested in any other brand/model of EV but the software must get better before I am to spend what looks like a $180K Turbo build before taxes and PPF/Ceramic/Tint.

 

[thecoloradokid]

I totally understand that there are no guarantees, so I paused on my order and keeping hope by taking my time. My approach is to keep checking on the latest deliveries and owner experiences and then make a decision. I am not interested in any other brand/model of EV but the software must get better before I am to spend what looks like a $180K Turbo build before taxes and PPF/Ceramic/Tint.

You might be waiting for a long time then. Many of the Taycan's PCM "quirks" have been around for a while and Porsche has not issued a fix.

I think you are missing out an amazing driving experience by focusing too much on the user interface. Nothing is certain, and nothing is perfect, so why deprive yourself of a Taycan? Especially if you have something in mind already.

Even my '19 e-hybrid Cayenne has some quirks which Porsche acknowledges, but has not fixed. The check engine light will randomly turn on an off, and that is something I have long accepted since the car is great to drive. The PCM in the Cayenne is phenomenal, but the car is a great highway cruiser regardless if the PCM works or not.

We are all different, and value different things in a vehicle, so I hope you get what you want someday.

 

[Cluon80]

It would be interesting to know how many programmers working on the Taycan product line at Porsche are actually driving a Taycan as a daily driver. If ALL of these programmers were behind the wheel of a Taycan the software bugs would probably be exterminated in a month.

I come from tech and know what it takes to create UI experiences that wow customers on mobile and ecommerce. I think Porsche is probably having hard time getting good programmers and UI designers. They obviously prioritize the driving experience, not the rest, though i must say the interior car design can be better - yes, that annoying central storage console needs to get changed.

Wonder how much memory the car has, since folks are saying PCM is slow. Reminds me of the early days of smartTVs when Manufacturers were putting cheap chips to reduce component cost. SmartTVs were slow as hell and there was no way they could run any of the apps like they do now.

also having driven BMWs, Benz, Audis, i think most EU automakers just suck in software dev overall. Ive never drove a Tesla before so maybe its better there. Perhaps someone working on software in an automaker can share why this is so?

 

[NoRPM22]

Ill admit I am new to the car, just got delivery a few days ago. Also coming from tech/UI/UX world, I can tell you that sometimes it just takes time to get used to what the designer/engineer were thinking when they designed and built any piece of machine. These are smart folks, so there has to be a method to it and in general, end users take some time to align with the designers thinking. Similar to what happens with changing phones, we take a while to adapt. In my few days of ownership, I can tell you that this is by far an amazing car to drive, it is so well designed inside out that there is no option but to fall in love with it. The UX is not as bad as it appears when reading this forum, I think being patient with it is important. Now, my perception may change as I go along. But in general, if the car stays the way it has last few days for the next few years, I will be a happy customer. And again, the good thing is that for such a large piece of machine, there are almost 0 complaints on the forum about the motors, suspensions, brakes, steering, body, paint, lights etc... so the fundamentals are strong, Porsche just needs to learn how to put the best makeup on!

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