A modest proposal…NCAS port in North America on the driver's side…

daveo4EV

Well-Known Member
First Name
David
Joined
Jan 28, 2019
Threads
160
Messages
5,793
Reaction score
8,599
Location
Santa Cruz
Vehicles
Cayenne Hybrid, 911(s) GT3/Convertable
Country flag
2026 Porsche Macan & Taycan

vehicle ships with two ports already - one on the driver's side (L2 AC only - J-1772) and one on the passenger side (Combo J-1772/CCS)

Swap the Driver's side J-1772 port for the NCAS port w/Fast charging support (J-1772 AC charging can be accomplished via existing adapter)
Leave the Combo J-1772/CCS port on the Passenger side - no changes
Update the in vehicle software to support plug&charge @ Tesla Superchargers like Ford is probably doing.

I think the design changes required here are minimal - and the Taycan already has two ports…and North America is also already different

Vehicle could then support both networks and no adapters required.

and we'd all be better off because of it and still don't need to buy a car from Elon.
Sponsored

 

simcity

Well-Known Member
First Name
Sean
Joined
May 22, 2022
Threads
37
Messages
1,333
Reaction score
1,134
Location
Suffolk, UK
Vehicles
'23 Taycan Turbo, Eletre R (on order)
Country flag
Possibly for Macan EV, as that looks to have both its charge ports as DC capable.

I don’t think it would fly for the Taycan in its present setup as there isn’t the capability to add a second DC port to the main contactor arrangement. Just the ability to swap what side of the car the DC port is on depending if it’s LHD or RHD setup.
 

WasserGKuehlt

Well-Known Member
Joined
Sep 7, 2022
Threads
4
Messages
1,619
Reaction score
1,773
Location
WA
Vehicles
4CT, 996C2, MacanS
Country flag
Swap the Driver's side J-1772 port for the NCAS port w/Fast charging support (J-1772 AC charging can be accomplished via existing adapter)
Leave the Combo J-1772/CCS port on the Passenger side - no changes
Why?

In addition to @simcity 's excellent point about challenges presented by dual DC charging, I think it's great that the Taycan can be charged at home (90+% of charging for probably 80%+ of users) irrespective of the layout of one's garage/driveway etc.

Porsche EV sales are a drop in a bucket, and TBH once you venture outside of big cities, you rarely encounter one on the road. I think the typical Porsche buyer keeps theirs close to home and in pristine/always-washed condition. (Which is too bad, 'cause they're great mile eaters.)
 
OP
OP
daveo4EV

daveo4EV

Well-Known Member
First Name
David
Joined
Jan 28, 2019
Threads
160
Messages
5,793
Reaction score
8,599
Location
Santa Cruz
Vehicles
Cayenne Hybrid, 911(s) GT3/Convertable
Country flag
Why?

In addition to @simcity 's excellent point about challenges presented by dual DC charging, I think it's great that the Taycan can be charged at home (90+% of charging for probably 80%+ of users) irrespective of the layout of one's garage/driveway etc.

Porsche EV sales are a drop in a bucket, and TBH once you venture outside of big cities, you rarely encounter one on the road. I think the typical Porsche buyer keeps theirs close to home and in pristine/always-washed condition. (Which is too bad, 'cause they're great mile eaters.)
and nothing would change you could still charge the EV on either side at home…NCAS is both 240V/L2 AC charging & FastDC charging - so you'd still be able to charge at home on either side of the vehicle.

and if Porsche's were not meant to be driven then why include 3 years included fast charging…
 
Last edited:

magnitude

Well-Known Member
First Name
Heinz
Joined
Apr 13, 2023
Threads
13
Messages
326
Reaction score
220
Location
North California
Vehicles
2021 Taycan Turbo
Country flag
I think the design changes required here are minimal
I don't know. Much unlike the relatively low-voltage, low-current AC charging, DC charging is at 800V with mindblowing amounts of current, upwards of 300A at the full charging speed the Taycan supports!

There is a reason those 270kW-capable DC cables at the charging stations are so hefty and unflexible. Besides the wire gauge required to push those amps through, they literally have liquid cooling.

Some back of the envelope math suggests that even a resistance of just 0.1 ohm at those cables would mean that the power dissipated as heat at the cable approaches the entire total power you get from Level 2 AC charging!

I can sort of see why Porsche only bothered to put DC charging capability on one port, and I'm honestly skeptical that money, engineering effort, and weight would be well invested.
 


tchavei

Well-Known Member
Joined
Dec 3, 2022
Threads
31
Messages
1,209
Reaction score
1,305
Location
Portugal
Vehicles
Too many to list. Includes a MY23 Taycan RWD
Country flag
I admit my ignorance to CSS and NCA standards but can't you charge AC from either side already?

At least here, the right side port is CCS2 (which means type 2 + the 2 massive DC contacts) and the left side port is type 2 (aka CCS2 minus the DC contacts)

Type 2 fits on both sides, CCS2 only on right side. If the future Macan EV had two CCS2 ports, it would be virtually compatible with everything in Europe on either side.
 

magnitude

Well-Known Member
First Name
Heinz
Joined
Apr 13, 2023
Threads
13
Messages
326
Reaction score
220
Location
North California
Vehicles
2021 Taycan Turbo
Country flag
I admit my ignorance to CSS and NCA standards but can't you charge AC from either side already?
AC, yes. AC is easy. Barely an inconvenience. It's DC fast charging where things get really crazy really fast, see my post immediately before.

I'm not saying it's necessarily infeasible, and maybe Porsche will do it, but... I'm not holding my breath, and I'm skeptical of the necessary tradeoffs.
 

simcity

Well-Known Member
First Name
Sean
Joined
May 22, 2022
Threads
37
Messages
1,333
Reaction score
1,134
Location
Suffolk, UK
Vehicles
'23 Taycan Turbo, Eletre R (on order)
Country flag
This is the J1178 Power contactor with boost function used in the e-tron GT / Taycan platform. As you can see it only has a single pair of connectors (one positive, one negative) that run to the DC port on the car.

Porsche Taycan A modest proposal…NCAS port in North America on the driver's side… Screenshot 2023-05-26 at 21.21.06


Here it is in the car on the launch cutaway. If a second DC port was desired this component would need to be updated in the design. If you look carefully you can see 2 orange cables that run from the right-side charge port back to this main contactor for DC, and a single orange cable from that same port which goes to the AC charger (mounted at the front and bottom beneath the Webasto heater). That AC charger also has a second input which goes to the opposing charge port.

Porsche Taycan A modest proposal…NCAS port in North America on the driver's side… Taycan platform chassis
 


magnitude

Well-Known Member
First Name
Heinz
Joined
Apr 13, 2023
Threads
13
Messages
326
Reaction score
220
Location
North California
Vehicles
2021 Taycan Turbo
Country flag
If you look carefully you can see 2 orange cables that run from the right-side charge port back to this main contactor for DC
Honestly, I would have expected those to be thicker. But they are probably chock full of expensive and heavy copper, and get pretty hot? Do you know if they are cooled somehow?
 

simcity

Well-Known Member
First Name
Sean
Joined
May 22, 2022
Threads
37
Messages
1,333
Reaction score
1,134
Location
Suffolk, UK
Vehicles
'23 Taycan Turbo, Eletre R (on order)
Country flag
Honestly, I would have expected those to be thicker. But they are probably chock full of expensive and heavy copper, and get pretty hot? Do you know if they are cooled somehow?
The cables aren't cooled. All the active / heavy current components on the car are cooled though. You can see the coolant lines on the contactor on the right side. The voltage converter is similar, as is the AC charge unit, battery, motor drive inverters etc.

The cooling system on the Taycan is crazily complex....look at the plumbing at the front and bottom of the cutaway car...
 

magnitude

Well-Known Member
First Name
Heinz
Joined
Apr 13, 2023
Threads
13
Messages
326
Reaction score
220
Location
North California
Vehicles
2021 Taycan Turbo
Country flag
The cables aren't cooled.
I wonder how they do it then, they must have crazy low resistance. If my math is right, even a 0.1 ohm resistance means you're dissipating around 9kW of heat. That's about what AC charging gives you in NA!

Now that I think of it, this is entirely DC, so there is no skin effect, and the cables don't have to be stranded at all, except maybe for some flexibility (hard to tell, but looks like they do have some sag). Are they just almost solid blocks of copper or what?
 

simcity

Well-Known Member
First Name
Sean
Joined
May 22, 2022
Threads
37
Messages
1,333
Reaction score
1,134
Location
Suffolk, UK
Vehicles
'23 Taycan Turbo, Eletre R (on order)
Country flag
I wonder how they do it then, they must have crazy low resistance. If my math is right, even a 0.1 ohm resistance means you're dissipating around 9kW of heat. That's about what AC charging gives you in NA!

Now that I think of it, this is entirely DC, so there is no skin effect, and the cables don't have to be stranded at all, except maybe for some flexibility (hard to tell, but looks like they do have some sag). Are they just almost solid blocks of copper or what?
They need to run around 350A (peak) or so, which is well within the capability of a cross section of cable used - roughly the same gauge as a decent welding cable. It will be a highly stranded / highly flexible construction, because of the nature of the environment
 

DanK

Member
Joined
Apr 7, 2023
Threads
0
Messages
20
Reaction score
18
Location
San Jose, CA
Vehicles
23 Taycan Turbo, 21 4R, 15 P90DL, 10 Exige 260
Country flag
Some back of the envelope math suggests that even a resistance of just 0.1 ohm at those cables would mean that the power dissipated as heat at the cable approaches the entire total power you get from Level 2 AC charging!
I think your envelope might be dirty? ;-) 0.1 ohm for a meter or two cable would be a lot. I wouldn't be shocked if they were using something like 00 cable which isn't that huge (~9mm diameter) and that has a nominal resistance of 0.4 milliohms / meter, so you're off by a few orders of magnitude. We're still talking watts but not kilowatts.
 

Tooney

Well-Known Member
Joined
Aug 14, 2021
Threads
333
Messages
2,206
Reaction score
1,736
Location
Ohio
Vehicles
2022 Taycan 4S
Country flag
Modest counter-proposal: Porsche works with its Porsche Charging Service vendor in USA (Electrify America) to get the Taycan's DC fast charge experience to the same level of reliability, convenience, and customer satisfaction as Tesla owners experience at Tesla superchargers.

Is the problem EA, Porsche, the car? Whatever it is, Porsche should take ownership of the process and fix it.

Until that happens, don't spend any time adding a new charging feature and complicating something frequently described as "sh*t show" which is not working well now. Re: this post. among many others.
Sponsored

 
 




Top