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daveo4EV

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[TLDR]
I've confirmed my 2020 Taycan charges fine and adjusts it's charging rate dynamically when being charged via a JDApter/TeslaTap in a 4 charger Master/Slave/Slave/Slave 100 amp shared circuit Tesla Wall Charger Gen2 home charging situation

there now you don't have to read what's below.

all of my experience is with the North American Tesla Wall Chargers and Tesla UMC Gen1 - I can not speak for other regions
[/TLDR]


as you may or may not know I am a passionate EV adovcate and have owned EV's for over 7 years - Ford Focus, Leaf, Tesla Model S P85, Tesla Model S P85D, Tesla Model X P90D, Tesla Model X 100D, Tesla Model 3 Performance, 2017 Bolt, 2019 Bolt, 2020 Taycan Turbo…never more than 3 or 4 at once but I've owned a few EV's - and put over 350,000 miles on them in a family of 5 with 4 drivers using them for road trips and daily driving duty. I believe all EV's have pros and cons, but on the whole EV's from any manufacturer (done right) offer a compelling alternative to run of the mill gasoline cars that infest our road ways…

As one transitions to EV's you quickly become acclimated to the benefits of an EV and find yourself not willing to go back, once you own one EV, you're going to own another, and that raises the specter of EV charging at home for multiple EV's. If you think planning charging for one EV is tricky, charging 3 or 4 EV's over night with appropriate equipment and electrical capacity easily exceeds the typical capacities for residential electrical loads…

EV charging is best done overnight, at home and rarely using public charging. If you have an EV with 150 miles or more of range this will easily cover 99.9% of most people's daily driving and transitioning to an EV will be relatively painless at first, and advantageous over time as you grow more acclimated to your new EV overlords :rock:

The typical driving day is 70 miles or less for 98% of daily vehicle usage. This is easily handled by a home charging configuration and requires about 20 kWh of power overnight. With your typical 40 amp charger (50 amp breaker) this translates to to approximately 2 1/2 hours of overnight charging time…easy, no problem, this is a typical EV garage setup and will serve you well and you will enjoy your EV immensely.

However once you add a 2nd EV (for the wife - cause she loves charging at home and hates the gas station), and then with young adult drivers the Bolt is a great car, and it has all the EV advantages at a lower price point than Tesla, Audi, Porsche, VW - you can easily find yourself with 3 or 4 EV's to charge over night - each requiring 10-20 kWh. And the most direct install would be 4 separate EV chargers - one for each car, but then that's a 50 amp breaker for each EV charger (if you want to charge all 4 cars at once), and that's 200 amps just for the garage!! 200 amps is more than most residential service and is impractical for a multi EV install for 98% of residential situations.

An alternative is to go slower on the charge rate - say 4 12 amp EV chargers, which is one 60 amp breaker (48 amps / 4 = 12 amps) but that penalizes the EV charging when only one or two cars need to charge by slowing down their charge rate to 12 amps even when only one EV is charging.

A potentially better solution is to install multiple EV chargers, but have them share a single breaker. And have those chargers dynamically adjust the load based on how many EV's are actually plugged in, and charging at any given time. This has the advantage of charging one EV as fast as possible, but splitting the available load when multiple EV's are charging at the same time.

Fortunately for the EV community the J-1772 standard for North America was fairly forward looking in this regards and load sharing is a supported feature of the J-1772 standard - which is really really cool for a multi EV household. That means if you can find an EVSE that supports this feature of J-1772 - you only have to install one circuit for your garage (as big as you can handle or pay for) and you can link/share/master/slave multiple EVSE's to "share" that circuit - such that they will split the load while charging multiple EV's, but make the entire available AC-current capacity available when there is only a single EV charging.

There are four EVSE's that I know that support this advanced black-belt EV enthusiast feature (there may be more):
  1. ClipperCreek - 60 amp Share2 is one example - click here.
  2. JuiceBox
  3. Tesla Wall Charger Gen2
  4. Tesla Wall Charger Gen3
I have no experience with any of the above listed chargers other than #3 - but I've heard good things about the others.

My setup at home is 4 Tesla Wall Chargers Gen2 - One Master, 3 slaves sharing a 100 amp circuit - this allows a maximum charge rate of 80 amps (19.2 kW), and when 4 EV's are charging at once it nicely splits the load such that each EV get's 20 amps (80 / 4) - 4.8 kW for each car.

I've had this setup of a number of years and it's worked well for charging 1-4 EV's all at once - and dynamically adjust the load based the actual draw it see's in use. It also helps optimize charging for EV's with different maximum charge rates - and doesn't "lock you in" to any fixed charge rate purely to allow "sharing". The charge rates of cars I've owned are listed below:
  • Ford Focus EV - 30 amps - 7.2 kW
  • Nissan Leaf - 16 amps - 3.6 kW
  • Model S P85 - 80 amps - 19.2 kW
  • Model S P85D - 80 amps - 19.2 kW
  • Model X P90D - 80 amps - 19.2 kW
  • Model X P100D - 72 amps - 17.28 kW
  • Chevy Bolt - 32 amps - 7.68 kW
  • Model 3 Performance - 48 amps - 11.2 kW
  • 2020 Taycan Turbo - 40 amps - 9.6 kW (documented)
    • 2020 Taycan Turbo - 48 amps - observed behavior in the wild (undocumented)
  • Chevy Volt - 16 amps - 3.6 kW
I'm an engineer and enthusiast and I also believe no one has ever complained that their EV charges too fast. When I plug my EV in I want it to charge as fast as possible. If it's the only EV currently charging it should charge at it's maximum rate, if there are multiple EV's charging then I'm fine with sharing the load, but each vehicle should get the maximum charge rate of the entire circuit based on which cars are actually charging.

for example if you have a Leaf and Model X charging - the leaf can charge at it's full 16 amps, and the Model X will charge at 64 amps- if the leaf finishes charging first - it's load will drop - EVSE will then adjust the maximum rate for the remaining EV (the Model X) and it will get it's full 72 amp capacity to finish it's charging session.

when charging the Model 3P and the Model X and a Bolt - we have 80 amps / 3 - I've observed each car getting 24 amps - until one car "drops" off or taper's it's charge - and then the remaining capacity gets split for the two remaining cars that are still charging.

the Good news here is that this isn't very expensive, it's in fact not that bad - in that Tesla Wall Chargers are only $500 each - so you can have a 2 or 3 charger setup in your home sharing a single circuit for less than the cost of the Porsche Mobile Charger Connect and have a great home multi-EV charging setup.

My setup works great and all my families EV's can be plugged in and charge with impunity and the EV always get the maximum rate available which optimizes my charging time and does not limit the charge rate unless there are multiple EV charging at the same time.

What did I test?

  • 2017 Tesla Model X - 72 amp
  • 2019 Bolt - 32 amp + JDApter and TeslaTap
  • 2014 Volt - 16 amp + JDApter and TeslaTap
  • 2020 Taycan - 48 amp + JDApter and TeslaTap
  • 4 Tesla Wall Chargers configured as Master/Slave/Slave/Slave sharing a 100 amp circuit - 80 amp maximum capacity for EVSE charging
1st Test - Plug in the Tesla Model X - confirmed 72 amp charge rate - 17.2 kW
2nd Test - Plug in the Bolt - confirmed 32 amp charge rate - 7.68 kW
3rd Test - Plug in the 2020 Taycan Turbo - confirmed 10.86 kW charge rate (48 amps)
4th Test - Tesla & Taycan - both got 40 amps
5th Test - TEsla & Taycan charging - unplug the Taycan - 5 min later the Tesla was at full 72 amps
6th Test - Tesla charging at full 72 amps - plug in the Taycan - both cars drop to 40 amps
7th Test - TEsla & Taycan charging at 40 amps each - unplug the Tesla - Taycan ramps up to 48 amps
8th Test - Tesla Charging at 72 amps, plug in Taycan - now both cars are charging at 40 amps - add in the Bolt - each car gets approximately 24 amps
9th Test - 3 cars charging - 24 amps each - Tesla, Taycan, Bolt - unplug the Tesla - Bolt gets 32 amps, Taycan gets 48 amps
10th Test - 4 cars charging - Tesla, Bolt, Taycan, Volt - Volt gets 16 amps, each of the other 3 cars each seem to get 20 amps
11th Test - during test #10 - unplug the Tesla & the Bolt - now the Volt is getting 16 amps, and the Taycan is getting 48 amps

In all cases I tried the Taycan will adjust it's charge rate dynamically with in 5 to 10 minutes and adjust it's charging rate to match the dynamic load currently being managed by the 4 Tesla Wall Chargers - it's the responsibility of the Wall Chargers to coordinate their usage to not exceed the maximum 80 amp total capacity while any number of EV's are charging - and in four years of charging I've never had a breaker trip or seen any consumption usage that exceed the 19.2 kW maximum capacity of my charging circuit.

If you are looking for a future proof advanced home charging setup - I seriously recommend you consider a high quality shared load EVSE setup which will allow you to use your full charging capacity at all times, and also seamless adjust the load dynamically when there are multiple EV's charging at once. It makes owning multiple EV's really really painless and lets each EV maximize it's charge session with out any manual adjustments.

I'm personally very happy with my setup and very gratified that the Taycan seems to play nicely in this setup and responds well to changes in the charging capacity during a charging session.
 
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daveo4EV

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appendix "B" of the install document for the Gen2 Tesla Wall Charger - documents the 4 charger master slave configuration - page 30 on the attached document

it can be configured to share any size breaker - so you don't have to full tilt @ 100 amps - you can for example share a 60 amp breaker (48 amp charge rate) with 2 chargers (one master & one slave) - when two cars are charging they will each get 24 amps - and when one car is charging it will get the full 48 amps…

you can installed a shared charger for the following breaker sizes - it's pretty ideal in my opinion to install two chargers splitting a 50 or 60 amp breaker - it would be a great configuration for charging two EV's
  • 15 amp
  • 20 amp
  • 25 amp
  • 30 amp
  • 35 amp
  • 40 amp
  • 45 amp
  • 50 amp
  • 60 amp
  • 70 amp
  • 80 amp
  • 90 amp
  • 100 amp
 

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porsche_coyote

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There are four EVSE's that I know that support this advanced black-belt EV enthusiast feature (there may be more):
  1. ClipperCreek - 60 amp Share2 is one example - click here.
  2. JuiceBox
  3. Tesla Wall Charger Gen2
  4. Tesla Wall Charger Gen3
Excellent stuff, Dave. I don't (yet) have my Taycan so I'll have to report back on compatibility, but our i3 and e-Golf share a 50A circuit using the ClipperCreek 40 Share2 solution. It's much pricier than the Tesla (almost $1700 for the two EVSEs) and limited to two EVSEs on the same circuit. It's also kind of ugly. I think that the JuiceBox and Tesla units are better looking, but the ClipperCreek stuff is supposed to be damned near indestructible. If I had it to do over, I'd probably look harder at both the Tesla and JuiceBox solutions, but the ClipperCreek Share2 solution is definitely seamless.
 
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@porsche_coyote your ClipperCreek stuff should work great - I will not say anything remotely negative about ClipperCreek - they make great chargers.

simple, pricey and bullet proof.
 

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Dumb question - given the car comes with a charger, why buy a 3rd party charger for home? If I'm on the road, I'm likely to use a commercial one anyway.
 

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Dumb question - given the car comes with a charger, why buy a 3rd party charger for home? If I'm on the road, I'm likely to use a commercial one anyway.
I had to get one that was hardwired and affixed. I live in a condo and that was a requirement by the property manager. I am also four floors down. It has taken over 2.5 months since ordering the EVSE to get the paperwork sorted out (still pending - almost as slow as the car itself). I bought one that doesn’t have connectivity since I have no signal anyway down there (Flo EVSE - made in Canada ). Running the electrical to the box won’t be cheap - approx $8k CAD.

I will keep the one that comes with car for charging at friends and family.
 

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Dumb question - given the car comes with a charger, why buy a 3rd party charger for home? If I'm on the road, I'm likely to use a commercial one anyway.
I'd think most people coming from non-EVs will do exactly that. But there's lots of EV fans that frequent forums like this. The vast majority of Taycan buyers will just wall mount the charger, and charge to 100% every day.

I'll possibly eventually be looking at dual-charging solutions, but for now I'll charge my car as needed and the wife's will be the one plugged in overnight (since once offices open up, she's the one with the long commute).

Tesla models won't be considered until they ship with J-1772 connectors without an adapter. And that's years away before Tesla will have to abandon their custom connectors in the US.
 

porsche_coyote

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Dumb question - given the car comes with a charger, why buy a 3rd party charger for home? If I'm on the road, I'm likely to use a commercial one anyway.
I think that one answer is what Dave outlined above: there are third-party solutions in the market that enable sharing a single circuit between multiple EVSEs. For a one-EV household this isn't all that compelling, but I believe that most of us will not be single EV households for long after we've driven an EV. :)
 
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reasons for multiple EV chargers is:
  • one lives in the garage and is always available
  • another lives in the car and is always with you for any eventuality
  • the Porsche charger is limited to 40 amps - the Taycan can actually charge at 48 amps
  • avoid packing/unpacking the charger for trips vs. daily use
the Porsche charger is a good charger, but it’s big, heavy, bulky. while it is technically mobile, there are better mobile alternatives (smaller, lightly, compatible with a wider range of north american plug types)

the vast majority of people don’t need to worry about it- until they get their 2nd EV - and even then you can probably get by knowing none of this stuff…

however there are better solutions and I’m simply sharing opinions to demonstrate what is possible and avaialble. With out exploring the alternatives most people will arrive at sub-optimal solutions, and the dealer network here is of _NO_ help cause they are roundly clueless

so it falls to the enthusiasts to at least offer the alternative of a better set of choices - if you do not value the altneratives that’s great, but then you are at least making an informed decision as opposed to just not knowing.
 
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also installing a charger is mostly about time/effort/permits/hassel factor - in that total story the actual cost of the physical charger is _NOT_ the driving force in overall cost…

the goal should be to only have the electrician do the work once and only visit you once and get the job done for now and the future…

a little planning ahead and your next EV charging setup will be simpler, faster, cheaper, and less painful.

do it wrong now, and you’ll do it over a 2nd time when you get your next EV

a little planning now, and growing your charging situation in the future to support 1+ EV’s will be much much easier, and not that much more costly to plan ahead.

Ideal garage setup for maximum current and future considerations:
  • install a new 100/125 amp circuit from your main panel to a new subpanel in the garage
  • from the subpanel in the garage install a 50 amp circuit for a NEMA 14-50 plug
  • use the 50 amp plug for your EV charger
    • or
  • install a 60 amp breaker in the new sub-panel and buy a 60 amp EV charger to maximize the Taycan’s 48 amp charging rate
    • leave the Porsche charger in the car for charging when you are traveling
when it comes time to add a 2nd EV charger into the mix - you’re all sets - you don’t even need to pull a permit - you simply add another 50 amp circuit from the garage subpanel (honestly a 1/2 day job with DYI written all over it) and boom you have your 2nd EV charger - you won’t even need to turn off power to the whole house, you’ll just need to turn off the garage 100 amp breaker while doing the work.

once you have 100 or 125 amp to the garage in a nice clean subpanel - expanding, changing, and updating your EV charging situation will be much cheaper, faster, easier, and less hassle and building permit free - and there are mulitple options to optimized how to use that 100 amp circuit for charging multiple EV’s…

as with most things home related, a littel planning will make things much cheaper easier in the future - which will make the decision to add an 2nd, or 3rd into the mix also easiser…
 
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also some Taycan owners may be Tesla owner and they are ”adding” a Taycan to the mix

they might not even realize
  • their existing Tesla Wall charger can function for them
  • if it’s gen2 wall connectors it could be easily expanded to add a 2nd/3rd charger to share their existing circuit for charging multiple EV’s at the same time
  • the Taycan can actually charge at 48 amps and is not limited to 40 amps
  • and that EV chargers are standardized and you don’t have to use a chargers from your manufacturer
    • the Porsche Charger will charge your Chevy Bolt just fine!!!
    • and the Bolt Charger will charge your Taycan just fine!!
also the Prosche charger is listed in the “options” section and therefrore should be optional - right now it mandated but I hate that - the Porsche charger is also about 4x the cost of high quaility, reliable, established alternatives - I look forward to the day when it is truly optional and you can save the $1300 cost of a charger you may not need.

also given this week’s data I won’t say the Porsche charger is low quality -but the NEMA 14-50 cable Porsche is shipping with their $1300 4x too much cost charger is a cheap cable that is barely adequate to the task of 40 amp charging duty - for $1300/4x the cost of reliable alternatives I expect a non-compromise solution from Porsche, and it’s pretty clear the Porsche Charger while being one of the most costly on the market isn’t in fact the best charger on the market.

https://www.taycanforum.com/forum/threads/nema-14-50-supply-cable-heat-data.1940/

the Porsche Charger is also complex, and un-necessarily integrated with WiFi and a PIN code - I have to unlock the charger every time I plug it in - I prefer a charger that is just plug-play - it’s also slow to initially talk to the car and take forever to acknowledge it’s plugged in and ready to charge. It’s complex, big, bulky, software is buggy (I dare you to figure out how to get the software update to complete successfuly), the screen in hard to read in the sun, and it’s not plug&play in that it keeps wanting to make me enter my PIN code before it will charge the car.

Frankly there are better and cheaper alternatives that are simplier and more reliable. And the porsche brand premium in this particular case is wholly unjustifiable and the product is slightly inferior to established and more cost effective alternatives. But since you are forced to purchase it, it’s not bad enough to simply put in a cabinet, and it’s un-necessary to buy a diffrerent charger, but it’s not the best.
 
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daveo4EV

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this seems promising - but it’s not available for US market - only for Canada & Mexico in North America

Tesla is attempting similar things with their car controls, PowerWalls, and Solar - and the new Gen3 Tesla Wall connectors are shared load EVSE’s with WiFi connectons - which I would imagine allows “remote” control of the charging session and the vehicles.

a great potential application of such systems is to shunt excess solar to charge the car during high production times for solar - and potentially have the vehicle provide whole home backup during grid outages…microgrids are the future…and having your EV provide power to the home when the grid is overloaded or down - and then charge the car later when power is ample and cheap would be uber cool

https://www.porsche.com/international/aboutporsche/e-performance/home-charging/#:~:text=Porsche Home Energy Manager The Home Energy Manager,and the available output of the power supply.

Porsche Home Energy Manager

So that you can charge your Taycan quickly and conveniently at home, we offer an intelligent solution, namely the Home Energy Manager. This equipment continually monitors your household's current energy needs and compares these with the available output of the power supply. It controls the car’s charging performance so that your domestic power circuit is not overloaded during the charging process. In the event of imminent overloading, the Home Energy Manager communicates with the Mobile Charger Connect, so as to control the charging process and reduce the amount of power assigned to the charging process, if required.
The Porsche Home Energy Manager at a glance:
Use:
at home
Supports intelligent charging: yes, exclusively in combination with the Porsche Mobile Charger Connect
Highlight functions:
  • Optimises the charging process of your electric car
  • Controls the simultaneous charging processes of multiple vehicles
  • Optimises charging costs (if variable electricity prices are available)
  • Supports sustainable charging by using self-generated electricity (e.g. from a photovoltaic system)
 

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Just FYI. The cost of the PMCC (7PP-971-675-BL) purchased by itself, is $2093.88. The cost of the 25 foot car charging cable (7PP-971-676-BC) is $927.95. The cost of the 14-50 power whip (7PP-971-678-ED) is $203.42. The cost of the "Fixing Set" (the 2 M4x10 countersunk Torx screws and the Torx T-15 allen wrench, 9Y0-927-129) is unknown right now as the dealer just gave me the kit!

So, to get a complete functional charger outside of your initial purchase will cost you at least $3,225.25 plus sales tax/VAT in your area. Please keep in mind, you MUST have all four parts listed above to have a complete and functional PMCC.

Please don't ask me how I know.........

Toby
 

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the Porsche Charger is also complex, and un-necessarily integrated with WiFi and a PIN code - I have to unlock the charger every time I plug it in - I prefer a charger that is just plug-play - it’s also slow to initially talk to the car and take forever to acknowledge it’s plugged in and ready to charge. It’s complex, big, bulky, software is buggy (I dare you to figure out how to get the software update to complete successfuly), the screen in hard to read in the sun, and it’s not plug&play in that it keeps wanting to make me enter my PIN code before it will charge the car.
I really wonder why you are not able to deactivate the PIN code. It is definitely possible to switch it off in the settings. And then it is plug'n play

Additionally the slow starting of the charging process seems to be related to the additional communication with the Taycan OBC regarding charging profiles and other advanced features at the beginning of the charge. Sadly these features seem not to be available in the USA without a home energy manager in the market. So, from your perspective you are right that it is not an advanced device. But in other international markets it fully supports 11kW charging (because of 3phase systems), it works together with the HEM and it is more advanced than other available wallboxes in the market.

And regarding the Software update I learned from a dealer that update does only run when the charger is not actively charging a car. Maybe this is your problem you're facing.
 
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thanks for this information Toby - that’s amazing - this makes a full 32 amp mobile charger w/8 NEMA adapters for $800’ish really really valuable.
 

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