TaycanHero

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There is a side between Elon Musk and Bill Gates? If there is, I will side the man who donated billions of his dollars to help alleviate global poverty and fund medical research to help people in developing nations.

I don't give a $hit if Elon Musk says Bill Gates has shorted Tesla stock, absolutely not one bit. I care about helping humanity with your money in a way that is not all about you. EV's? Rockets? Tunnels? Sure they will help out people in the future, but putting money into current projects to actually help people who need it most is more important.

It is not about politics. It is about being a decent human being and not a self centered, obnoxious dick.

Pretty simple.
"it's not about politics"

And yet you just mentioned Elon's politics that you disagree with to the point of not buying his products. And you labelled him "childish".

Fascinating.

This is why I avoid conversations about politics especially where there's a movement in the West that's quite possibly the start of a new religion.

Anyway, let's keep this conversation about cars, not things we don't fully understand or only have half the story about.

I'm currently in market for a Model 3 Performance while I wait for my Taycan.

It doesn't excite me but that's a good thing. I will probably love it as my expectations are so low.

Test drive when I'm back in the UK. We will see.

The Tesla will be quicker and have a longer range than my GTS when it arrives. It will likely have better software. I'm sure it will be fun to drive.

The Taycan will be luxurious and handle more like a high performance sports car.

Both will have their nuances, but then these cars are trailblazers so that's to be expected.
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scav

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I didn’t spend that kind of cash to be a beta tester!
So you draw the line of paying for beta testing at the price point of a Tesla. I guess this explains a lot if this is transferable to most Tesla owners or Tesla fans.
 

B61

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BUT.... I love driving this car. ~9k miles since picking up in Feb.
Launch control works.
Brake works.
Accelerator works.
Steering is precise.
All I need for a fun Sunday afternoon.

I will deal with the software glitches, like any bugs, it'll eventually be fixed.
+1
 

friskygeek

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That being said, if the guy could stay off Twitter and not make everything about himself, I would still respect the man. Most people know that Steve Jobs or Bill Gates were amongst the original technology disruptors, but they never made it about themselves - it was always about the work and the product. Steve Jobs may have been leading the new product roll out presentations for Apple, but he always made it about the product and the team working to create the product. Elon Musk does not operate like that.

Elon Musk is too self-centered, egocentric, and childish to act like a mature adult, so it is what it is. I mean the guy now publicizes he will vote Republican????? Please tell me why a guy who made tens of billions off of selling electric cars in order to reduce global emissions would publicly state that he is voting for admitted climate change deniers??? It is all because Joe Biden has not kissed his ass, and that pisses him off, so he acts like an impetuous child and tweets that kind of bull$hit.

My hope is that when Space X makes a powerful enough rocket to launch a Mars mission, he is on the first one. This way we do not have to deal with his drama queen mood swings.
This. This is exactly why I cancelled my Model 3 Performance order. I have no intentions of giving that man my money. It was supposed to be my wife's daily driver.

I have a Taycan GTS on order so we're still looking for another DD for her. Thinking Rivian SUV.
 

Margrock

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So you draw the line of paying for beta testing at the price point of a Tesla. I guess this explains a lot if this is transferable to most Tesla owners or Tesla fans.
In my experience, I wasn’t a beta tester with my Tesla. If there were issues, a SW release came out with all the release notes that fixed it within days. The Porsche people at the dealership keep telling me there isn’t a problem, that is until I sent them the link from the forum that describes them.
 


Margrock

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In my experience, I wasn’t a beta tester with my Tesla. If there were issues, a SW release came out with all the release notes that fixed it within days. The Porsche people at the dealership keep telling me there isn’t a problem, that is until I sent them the link from the forum that describes them.
I also don’t quite understand your posting. I speak from experience with almost 4 years with a Tesla S. You sound quite insulting about Tesla owners, if I am understanding this. Oh well, I guess it takes all kinds.
 

thecoloradokid

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I'm currently in market for a Model 3 Performance while I wait for my Taycan.

It doesn't excite me but that's a good thing. I will probably love it as my expectations are so low.

Test drive when I'm back in the UK. We will see.

The Tesla will be quicker and have a longer range than my GTS when it arrives. It will likely have better software. I'm sure it will be fun to drive.

The Taycan will be luxurious and handle more like a high performance sports car.

Both will have their nuances, but then these cars are trailblazers so that's to be expected.
[/QUOTE]




You want to keep the conversation about cars, that works for me as well.

Why are you comparison shopping a $65k Model 3 with a $150k Taycan GTS???? If you are serious about buying a high performance EV then you should be evaluating a Model S Plaid with the Taycan GTS.

Also, I am curious as to where you live outside of the UK since you seem to be casting aspersions about "the West" when the vast majority of the people on this forum are from Europe or North America.
 
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Lars

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I’m sorry but Tesla wins 100% outright vs Taycan………… in the extremely UGLY stakes! And don’t get me started on boring. MY21 Taycan sat nav search bar comes up in German every time I turn it on, so what? As soon as I press the search it switches to English every time. The pleasure I get from simply looking at it is immense and then driving it is on another level. I have never had a car without some sort of niggly software issue, embrace it, adapt and overcome, then go enjoy that driving experience 😊
Had my car for 1300 miles now. I haven't had the German language once in my searches etc. No real issues with PCM except if you choose to use Car Play then you have to be prepared to press another button to get the radio on each time you get going. Thats the only thing that I can fault. But I do have the coloured icons OS so maybe the software is improved in my version?
 


TaycanHero

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You want to keep the conversation about cars, that works for me as well.

Why are you comparison shopping a $65k Model 3 with a $150k Taycan GTS???? If you are serious about buying a high performance EV then you should be evaluating a Model S Plaid with the Taycan GTS.

Also, I am curious as to where you live outside of the UK since you seem to casting aspersions about "the West" when the vast majority of the people on this forum are from Europe or North America.
I agree both vehicles are in a very different class, but my comparison is more the UX of the tech, which is quite distinct for EVs.

Does Tesla have better software experience than an electric Porsche? Many even on this forum would agree.

Does an electric Porsche have a superior driving experience? Many even not on this forum would agree.

Thus if someone is surprised that Porsche software comes up short compared to a Tesla, what exactly were they expecting?! It should have been anticipated.

I only need a temporary vehicle until my Taycan arrives and it doesn't make sense to buy a premium EV in the interim. A Model 3 provides a nice sweet spot.

To your other question, I am a UK citizen. I spend around 6 months of the year living and working abroad in usually warm and interesting places, where I'm in an extremely fortunate position in the business that I run.

Perhaps because I am quite well travelled, I can see how bad things are in many other parts of the world. I'm thus more aware of how flawed (and how good things can be) Western Civilisation is and all its amusingly pointless bickering over non-issues; hypocrisy; ignorance and complete disregard of history, which is such a valuable teacher. Rome is repeating.

This universe is not binary, but that too is something the West has at the core of its existence: Entity A is good. Entity B is bad. Certain political views fit very much the profile and dogma of any Abrahamic religion, but then it's the same part of the brain at work. I hope you can see what I was trying to point out, though let's keep this conversation on topic.
 

daveo4EV

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Porsche makes the best car but a mediocre EV
Tesla makes the best EV but a mediocre car
Porsche is as good at mechanical engineering as Tesla is at software
Porsche is as good at software as Tesla is at mechanical engineering

two very different cars made by two very different manufactures each optimizing for something radically different - if they were not different both would have failed.

I've owned Tesla's since 2013 - I have my issues with them and Elon
I've owned Porsche's since 2008 - I have my issues with them and their VW overlords

I'm looking forward to more choice in the future for EV's - staying where are today is failure for all parties invovled

the Model 3 is the best price/value 4 door nearly-sports sedan on the market - but it's not a sports sedan - there are few/none/no choices for less than $100k I'd choose over the Model 3 Long Range or Performance
the Taycan is the best sports sedan on the market - but not the best value
I'll take the Model Y over most _ANY_ SUV less than $70k MSRP - I in fact have - and it's my son's car and my brother in law's - they both love it.

Elon's pro's and con's make doing business with him complicated - Tesla's moral compass is weak and their business practices lack positive customer experience goals - they are also willing to deliver a product with numerous avoidable delivery problems - they also are not risk averse on their software release strategy which doesn't and won't always go well for them.

In North America all Taycan owners know which charging network they would prefer to have access to. But then that means doing business with Elon.

it's complicated is an understatement - navigating these choices requires multi-variant optimization which is difficult in the best of times - and personal choice - and frankly in my opinion these are not the best of times (political division, wars, recsssions, market volatility, pandemics, other tensions)

there is no one choice - there are different goals to optimize for…

I know which brand I'd rather road trip with
and I know which brand I'd rather drive
I know which brand is quicker off the line
I know which brand has brakes that actually work more than twice in a row
I know which brand leaves more money in my checking account
I know which brand can actually deliver software with meaningful OTA updates
I know which brand has virtually no road noise
I know which brand has functional and deep software

choices, goals, costs, trade offs - it all makes my head spin - why isn't there just one good choice - well then it wouldn't be any fun.
 
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thecoloradokid

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@TaycanHero : excellent post. I think you are spot on about the non-car topic.

The vehicle interface differences between Porsche and Tesla comes from two different schools of thought in regards to vehicles - Porsche built a car first, and then shotgunned software to help manage it, while Tesla designed software and user interface at the same time they designed the vehicle.

Obviously, Porsche vehicle designers and engineers rely on a deep history of building performance vehicles, while Tesla is still in its infancy, but improving. Hence the incredible driving characteristics of the Taycan, while the Tesla still feels a little sloppy. (I have not driven the latest Model S Plaid, so I cannot comment. My statement comes from the experience I had with my last Model S a few years ago)

That being said, Tesla has access to a very deep pool of the world's best user interface designers that are based in Silicon Valley. When you can tap into a pool of designers that either helped design or learned directly from the designers of the Apple iPhone user interface, you are a step ahead of the game in terms of creating software that is easy for a person to use, and simple to navigate.

If we could blend the Taycan with Tesla software we would have a pretty freakin' incredible car.

Cheers
 
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dutchcourage

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If there were issues, a SW release came out with all the release notes that fixed it within days.
i think every software update in the Tesla solves minor issues and is causing new problems. Most of Elon’s updates are about adding more silly games that no one ever plays. The Tesla is more like a crazy expensive game console :giggle:
 

daveo4EV

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i think every software update in the Tesla solves minor issues and is causing new problems. Most of Elon’s updates are about adding more silly games that no one ever plays. The Tesla is more like a crazy expensive game console :giggle:
having owned Tesla's since 2013 this is only true in jest and understates the real value delivered multiple times a years in meaningful software updates that do not require a multi-day dealer visit to provide bug fixes and new functionality.

I wouldn't make fun of Tesla's software skills and release road map any more than I'd joke about Porsche's handling and brakes…

it's a meaningful skill done at scale with industry leading feature set on a world wide fleet of over 1,000,000 vehicles - it's the envy of the industry - no one else comes close - and if you read the release notes it is both actual functional industry leading feature set along with some silly and less important features - but it's done consistently and in a forward facing manner - vs. my Porsche dealer which can't seem to handle updating my vehicle in less than two days and doesn't actually know what is in the software release they just installed, or what it fixes.

please lets not trivialize Tesla's actual advantages - their faults are enough to focus on and well understood - and not every shares your distain for a little fun in their vehicle. the fart noise brought my children more joy and travel distraction than any porsche's handling advantage ever did, or ever will…trivializing Tesla's advantages simply means you're not paying attention and will be passed by.

Tesla's software releases focus on benefiting all occupants of the vehicle - not just the driver - it's an interesting way to consider vehicle software once you step back and consider Tesla's long term goals and they are ahead in many many areas of "thinking" vs. the rest of the industry - that does not mean they are without fault - it just means they are pushing harder in some areas that others, and I believe opening some gaps where the existing guys will be behind for quite some time…but you focus on the "fart noises" and ignore what it means to deliver something like that and any OTHER feature you might want to push/sell/deliver to an existing fleet of vehicles overnight at scale - yeah focus on that - it will go well for you.

the space race was started by a mostly non-functional satellite that did nothing useful - but it represented what could be done if you had the imagination to use the ability/skill differently - it terrified the western world and they quickly realized it could be soooo much more…Tesla can deliver new "fart" noises overnight - fleet wide - with no dealership/service infrastructure (and associated labor costs, loaners, and downtime of the vehicle) and high reliability and high quality - maybe it could be useful beyond "games"…but you focus on that while they pass you by.
 
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TaycanHero

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@TaycanHero : excellent post. I think you are spot on about the non-car topic.

The vehicle interface differences between Porsche and Tesla comes from two different schools of thought in regards to vehicles - Porsche built a car first, and then shotgunned software to help manage it, while Tesla designed software and user interface at the same time they designed the vehicle.

Obviously, Porsche vehicle designers and engineers rely on a deep history of building performance vehicles, while Tesla is still in its infancy, but improving. Hence the incredible driving characteristics of the Taycan, while the Tesla still feels a little sloppy. (I have not driven the latest Model S Plaid, so I cannot comment. My statement comes from the experience I had with my last Model S a few years ago)

That being said, Tesla has access to a very deep pool of the world's best user interface designers that are based in Silicon Valley. When you can tap into a pool of designers that either helped design or learned directly from the designers of the Apple iPhone user interface, you are a step ahead of the game in terms of creating software that is easy for a person to use, and simple to navigate.

If we could blend the Taycan with Tesla software we would have a pretty freakin' incredible car.

Cheers
Completely agree, but as with everything, there is always a trade off somewhere.

I'm quite looking forward to test driving the Tesla Model 3, but ultimately the car I want is my Taycan GTS that is quite likely at least 12 months away.

So where most people would be delighted with their Tesla, I am considering it only because it makes financial and practical (I don't have a home charger at my rented UK property) sense - and at this moment in time.

Beyond that it doesn't excite me in the same way as the Porsche, even if PMC is riddled with bugs that various threads on this forum point out.

In time Porsche will get better at software engineering, and Tesla at mechanical engineering, but ultimately nothing will provide Tesla with the same brand sentiment, exclusivity and excitement as a Porsche.

It will be a somewhat geeky car brand that as you so perfectly put it, is a computer first and a car second.
 

soamz

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I drive a Tesla model 3 LR since last 6 months now and trust me, not a single bug or issues at all.
Its fast, clean, superb sound quality and acceleration is so good. Not to forget the price, its epic price.
Now my taycan 4S will arrive next month, which has costed twice of a Tesla model 3 LR and looking at all those issues and PCM bugs around this forum, really is making me worried.


paying double the price and then trying to make yourself feel like a Porsche fan boy would be crap with all the issues, if it really comes.
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