All 2,200 Polestar 2 Delivered So Far Will Be Recalled

Dee

Well-Known Member
First Name
Dee
Joined
Dec 14, 2018
Threads
63
Messages
2,653
Reaction score
3,109
Location
The Netherlands
Vehicles
A lot
Yeah, 12v batteries dying on an EV which hardly uses them in under 24 months? While an ICE car, which uses it way more lasts 4-6 or more years? Something's definitely smelly there.
The problem is not the use of the 12V battery but the (re)charging of it.
That's software related.
There's no alternator so this proces is completely different.
Less capacity too (no powerful starter motor involved) so it'll die pretty easy when it isn't recharged properly.
Obviously it's hard to get that sorted due to all kinds of alternative processes that are involved in an EV.
Sponsored

 
Last edited:

Needsdecaf

Well-Known Member
First Name
Joe
Joined
Aug 17, 2021
Threads
4
Messages
231
Reaction score
188
Location
The Woodlands, TX
Vehicles
997.2 Turbo S, Cayenne Diesel, Cayenne E_Hybrid
Country flag
The problem is not the use of the 12V battery but the (re)charging of them.
That's software related.
There's no alternator so this proces is completely different.
Obviously it's hard to get that sorted due to all kinds of alternative processes that are involved in an EV.
Yes, I completely understand. My point was you have a 12v battery with little loading, with all kinds of sophisticated power management software aboard, and a huge power reserve connected at all times to basically trickle charge it whenever needed. It shouldn't be difficult to keep the thing charged in such a way that it's not completely spent in 24 months.

And yet...here we are.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Dee

JimBob

Well-Known Member
First Name
James
Joined
Jan 26, 2021
Threads
70
Messages
896
Reaction score
1,033
Location
Toronto Canada
Vehicles
Taycan 4S
Country flag
My rant. I have had it. Love the car, but I won't buy another Taycan until Porsche gets the software (all of it) fixed. And I won't recommend the car to anyone else either. Spoke to a young lady looking at trading her Maserati for a Taycan. Sorry, not a good idea.

Lot's of alternatives out there now. I don't have to reward Porsche for crappy software by giving them anymore money.
 

f1eng

Well-Known Member
First Name
Frank
Joined
Aug 19, 2021
Threads
40
Messages
3,679
Reaction score
6,270
Location
Oxfordshire, UK
Vehicles
Taycan CT4S, Ferrari 355, Merc 500E, Prius PHV
Country flag
Exactly. Same thing with Teslas. There are some that are shop nightmares. Can't ever spend time at home. And then there are many with zero problems. And many times, programming related. Although in Tesla's case, there's more hardware failure than normal. All from the same manufacturer. All from the same production line. So why is this?
IME on Formula 1 cars the biggest electrical problem is getting a multi pin connector sometimes with one pin making intermittent contact thereby giving inconsistent data from sensors or between boxes. We would change the whole wiring harness...
If software is the problem it is more likely to be the excessive (IMO) number of options leading to the possibility of some of the software routines to have an occasional set of conditions which cause one routine to mis-communicate with another.
I am an engineer and I like simplicity.
It must be all but impossible to de-bug every combination of options available on the configurator IMO.
I am choosing performance electronics and ignoring assistance stuff which may be nice to have from time to time but I won't use much. This is as much to reduce the possibility of malfunction as to save money. After all torque vectoring and active anti-roll bars have been around a lot longer than self parking (which i have had on my last 2 cars and haven't even used to try it out).
 

f1eng

Well-Known Member
First Name
Frank
Joined
Aug 19, 2021
Threads
40
Messages
3,679
Reaction score
6,270
Location
Oxfordshire, UK
Vehicles
Taycan CT4S, Ferrari 355, Merc 500E, Prius PHV
Country flag
Yes, I completely understand. My point was you have a 12v battery with little loading, with all kinds of sophisticated power management software aboard, and a huge power reserve connected at all times to basically trickle charge it whenever needed. It shouldn't be difficult to keep the thing charged in such a way that it's not completely spent in 24 months.

And yet...here we are.
On my plug-in hybrid the traction battery only charges the 12V battery when the car is switched on. When off the traction battery is isolated, sensibly IMO.
I think the makers underestimate how many people leave a reading light on, sit in the car listening to the audio system and/or mess about with the software and therefore choose a 12V battery size which is too small for some users.
I learned early on what could cause a problem and don't have any any more.
It is probably hard to estimate how much margin may be needed by some people.
 


JimBob

Well-Known Member
First Name
James
Joined
Jan 26, 2021
Threads
70
Messages
896
Reaction score
1,033
Location
Toronto Canada
Vehicles
Taycan 4S
Country flag
So this is an electric car and all of its functions are controlled by software. The opposite of simple. So does Porsche do a competent job handling this?
 

Needsdecaf

Well-Known Member
First Name
Joe
Joined
Aug 17, 2021
Threads
4
Messages
231
Reaction score
188
Location
The Woodlands, TX
Vehicles
997.2 Turbo S, Cayenne Diesel, Cayenne E_Hybrid
Country flag
On my plug-in hybrid the traction battery only charges the 12V battery when the car is switched on. When off the traction battery is isolated, sensibly IMO.
I think the makers underestimate how many people leave a reading light on, sit in the car listening to the audio system and/or mess about with the software and therefore choose a 12V battery size which is too small for some users.
I learned early on what could cause a problem and don't have any any more.
It is probably hard to estimate how much margin may be needed by some people.
The battery in most Teslas is similarly sized to a normal ICE 12v battery. I would think that most PHEV's and BEV's are likely similarly sized, so you would THINK it wouldn't be an issue.

But I got a C in circuits so I'm certainly not going to criticize, lol.
 

f1eng

Well-Known Member
First Name
Frank
Joined
Aug 19, 2021
Threads
40
Messages
3,679
Reaction score
6,270
Location
Oxfordshire, UK
Vehicles
Taycan CT4S, Ferrari 355, Merc 500E, Prius PHV
Country flag
I would think that most PHEV's and BEV's are likely similarly sized, so you would THINK it wouldn't be an issue.
Not IME, even a standard Hybrid Toyota Prius has a small 12V battery because it doesn't need a battery big enough to start the engine, that is done with the traction battery.
In fact generally petrol cars have smaller 12V batteries than Diesels because to power required to start the engine is so different so it would be amazing if Hybrids and EVs had similar sized 12V batteries to conventional piston engined cars with electric starters.
 


daveo4EV

Well-Known Member
First Name
David
Joined
Jan 28, 2019
Threads
160
Messages
5,793
Reaction score
8,600
Location
Santa Cruz
Vehicles
Cayenne Hybrid, 911(s) GT3/Convertable
Country flag
So this is an electric car and all of its functions are controlled by software. The opposite of simple. So does Porsche do a competent job handling this?
no
 

Swede-ish

Well-Known Member
First Name
Hans
Joined
Aug 26, 2020
Threads
2
Messages
65
Reaction score
62
Location
Los Angeles, California
Vehicles
Taycan Turbo, Land Rover Defender 110, BMW 530e
Country flag
I can see both sides of this argument, but it all comes down to - why does the Porsche user interface not properly respond to commands? We just sold off a new Tesla Y performance that was perfectly well responsive to all commands, and also provided the Fart sounds and Mexican food truck greeting songs (that I love) with no problem (but was otherwise mechanically inferior, gaps everywhere, bumpy ride, noise an squeaks)... Why do I have to wait for my command center to realize I pushed a button or changed a channel? I would say bad coding, or inferior operating system, or maybe just slow hardware. Porsche?
 
Last edited:

W1NGE

Well-Known Member
First Name
Adrian
Joined
Jan 11, 2021
Threads
31
Messages
8,736
Reaction score
5,213
Location
Aberdeen, Scotland
Vehicles
GTS ST, Macan T
Country flag
software is hard - the europeans are just now figuring this out.
It's Chinese (Geely Motors) and built in China.

Ultimately the software issues / challenges are global with Tesla being the current more mature player.
 

NC_Taycan

Well-Known Member
First Name
Lewis
Joined
Oct 13, 2020
Threads
12
Messages
810
Reaction score
713
Location
Wake Forest, NC
Vehicles
'12 Tesla Model S P85, '17 Cayenne S, '20 Taycan Turbo
Country flag
The battery in most Teslas is similarly sized to a normal ICE 12v battery.
The 12V battery in my 2012 model S was about the size of a PowerSports (motorcycle / PWC) battery. Much smaller than typical ICE starter battery. Quite possible they increased the size since then - but yes mine died in < 2 years the first time and closer to 3 years the second time. Both times replacement was covered by warranty and was done with the car in my garage (hats off to Tesla mobile service though in 2017 it was much better than later years...) Third battery was going on 3 years old when I sold the car.
Sponsored

 
 




Top