All 2,200 Polestar 2 Delivered So Far Will Be Recalled

[Neighs]

https://insideevs.com/news/447089/all-2200-polestar-2-delivered-recalled/

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[PanameraFrank]

Yikes.

 

[daveo4EV]

software is hard - the europeans are just now figuring this out.

 

[evanevery]

software is hard - the europeans are just now figuring this out.

Lets disagree on this... (No offense)

Software is NOT hard if you are a decent software designer. It might be "hard" for a MECHANICAL engineer to do it properly, but there are LOTS of really good SOFTWARE Engineers available.

Lots of folks are writing some very complicated Android and IOS apps and THEY seem to get those done pretty well. ABRP does a pretty good job of route planning, the Porsche Nav system does not. (Although the user interface on the ABRP app could be more intuitive).

Good software design simply requires much more focus, user feedback, and functional validation than Porsche is willing to invest.

The failures we are seeing in so many software components of the Taycan is because Porsche did not provide enough focus on this aspect of the vehicle. The crap we got was clearly "good enough" to get the car "out the door". Its about usability, functionality, and reliability. Porsche has major failures on all three of these fronts.

There is no excuse for this. Its NOT that hard!

$0.02

 

[snstevens]

Lets disagree on this... (No offense)

Software is NOT hard if you are a decent software designer. It might be "hard" for a MECHANICAL engineer to do it properly, but there are LOTS of really good SOFTWARE Engineers available.

Lots of folks are writing some very complicated Android and IOS apps and THEY seem to get those done pretty well. ABRP does a pretty good job of route planning, the Porsche Nav system does not. (Although the user interface on the ABRP app could be more intuitive).

Good software design simply requires much more focus, user feedback, and functional validation than Porsche is willing to invest.

The failures we are seeing in so many software components of the Taycan is because Porsche did not provide enough focus on this aspect of the vehicle. The crap we got was clearly "good enough" to get the car "out the door". Its about usability, functionality, and reliability. Porsche has major failures on all three of these fronts.

There is no excuse for this. Its NOT that hard!

$0.02

I beg to differ. Writing an app like ABRP and developing the PCM software are entirely different types of software development and shouldn't be compared.

The key difference is that the PCM software system is as complex as a computer operating system. and it's successful development requires the design of a "system architecture" that enumerates all the system modules; the communication interfaces/messages among those modules; the static and dynamic requirements each module must meet; and also the overall PCM user interface needed to control the system. The PCM system architecture serves as a high-level design roadmap for the entire software development team, allowing them to work on individual subsystems in parallel.

ABRP is truly simple in comparison. It's an app built on top of a mapping database subsystem, and the interface to that mapping subsystem is well defined. It doesn't have to control vehicle charging, radar-based speed adjustment, lane keeping, other safety systems, or anything else. It just provides navigation to a point on a map.

I'm not sure whether Porsche had a well defined system architecture for the PCM or not, but they definitely had something very close. Considering all the functionality the PCM contains, the number of issues experienced by drivers has been remarkably few. Some owners such as myself have experienced a few minor issues (e.g., ParkAssist stops working) and no major issues at all.

And "Yes", EV system software is that hard.

 

[jontybutts]

software is hard - the europeans are just now figuring this out.

Will we work out how to write software before the US works out how to screw cars together properly………

 

[Kingske]

Will we work out how to write software before the US works out how to screw cars together properly………

 

[scav]

Software engineer here. Software is hard. That’s just a hard fact.

look at the amount of updates your phone, apps, computers and in some cases even cars receive?

 

[Needsdecaf]

Lets disagree on this... (No offense)

Software is NOT hard if you are a decent software designer. It might be "hard" for a MECHANICAL engineer to do it properly, but there are LOTS of really good SOFTWARE Engineers available.

Lots of folks are writing some very complicated Android and IOS apps and THEY seem to get those done pretty well. ABRP does a pretty good job of route planning, the Porsche Nav system does not. (Although the user interface on the ABRP app could be more intuitive).

Good software design simply requires much more focus, user feedback, and functional validation than Porsche is willing to invest.

The failures we are seeing in so many software components of the Taycan is because Porsche did not provide enough focus on this aspect of the vehicle. The crap we got was clearly "good enough" to get the car "out the door". Its about usability, functionality, and reliability. Porsche has major failures on all three of these fronts.

There is no excuse for this. Its NOT that hard!

$0.02

Your example couldn't be less correct.

A modern car is a collection of dozens of different electronic modules, sourced from multiple vendors. Each of them having their own firmware which need to talk to each other. So while writing software for a single app isn't all that difficult, writing software which allows all those modules to talk to each other clearly is more difficult than people give credit for.

If you really think Porsche "didn't provide enough focus on this aspect of the vehicle", then I think you should probably understand more about how modern cars are designed and built. I can assure you they spent plenty of time trying to get these things work. It has nothing with them being unwilling to invest the proper resources or cutting corners.

 

[Dee]

My car has good software apparently.
That doesn't mean I ignore problems with other cars but I do hope you understand that there are thousands of cars without any problems, just like mine.
Apparently it's extremely difficult to write software that works on all cars...
So I guess I have to agree that software is difficult.
Nevertheless, software can be updated...

 

[Dee]

https://insideevs.com/news/447089/all-2200-polestar-2-delivered-recalled/

That sounds like a simular problem like our Taycan.
Not with such dramatic actions but apparently there are some bugs (bogus faults) that shuts the vehicle down too.

 

[Needsdecaf]

Remember that the Mustang Mach E has had the same exact problem as the Taycan: draining the 12v battery when connected to charging. Almost identical fault pattern. So either getting the programming for that functionality correct is hard, or both Ford and Porsche have both cut corners. I know which side of the equation I'm on.

 

[Needsdecaf]

My car has good software apparently.
That doesn't mean I ignore problems with other cars but I do hope you understand that there are thousands of cars without any problems, just like mine.
Apparently it's extremely difficult to write software that works on all cars...
So I guess I have to agree that software is difficult.
Nevertheless, software can be updated...

Exactly. Same thing with Teslas. There are some that are shop nightmares. Can't ever spend time at home. And then there are many with zero problems. And many times, programming related. Although in Tesla's case, there's more hardware failure than normal. All from the same manufacturer. All from the same production line. So why is this?

 

[Dee]

Remember that the Mustang Mach E has had the same exact problem as the Taycan: draining the 12v battery when connected to charging. Almost identical fault pattern. So either getting the programming for that functionality correct is hard, or both Ford and Porsche have both cut corners. I know which side of the equation I'm on.

Tesla S/X and Nissan Leaf had these same 12V issues...
I can't recall BMW i3 first gen had any of these or other software problems though...
You tell me. ??‍

EDIT: Tesla has its 12V batteries dying way too fast.
Still, it IS a software issue and lasted until at least last year so apparently software IS hard...even for Tesla.
https://electrek.co/2020/09/15/tesla-fix-dying-12v-batteries-software-update-musk/

 

[Needsdecaf]

Tesla S/X and Nissan Leaf had these same 12V issues...
I can't recall BMW i3 first gen had any of these or other software problems though...
You tell me. ??‍

EDIT: Tesla has its 12V batteries dying way too fast.
Still, it IS a software issue and lasted until at least last year so apparently software IS hard...even for Tesla.
https://electrek.co/2020/09/15/tesla-fix-dying-12v-batteries-software-update-musk/

Yeah, 12v batteries dying on an EV which hardly uses them in under 24 months? While an ICE car, which uses it way more lasts 4-6 or more years? Something's definitely smelly there.

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