Apple Car Key - Any word on Taycan support?

[bswets]

I'm awaiting the arrival of my Mamba Green Taycan 4S (currently anticipated for October 16).

I was careful to order it the way I wanted - Green, Mission E Design, big white calipers, ventilated seats - but there's one thing I've wanted for years from my vehicle - I want my phone to be my key.

It seems this is coming from Apple with "Car Key": https://www.caranddriver.com/news/a32936716/apple-iphone-car-key-bmw-revealed/

So far the only news I've seen is that it's coming to the 5-series first. Has anyone heard whether this might be coming to Porsche, and specifically the Taycan, soon? Hopefully as a software update to the 2020 model?

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[daveo4EV]

I doubt it’s a software update - car has to have NFC (short distance wireless transmitter/receiver) hardware added at various contact points on the car so that it can talk to your phone.

getting software support from automotvie supply chains is hard enough, but software + hardware changes = 2-3 year delay until it shows up in production (best case)…unless Porsche has been working with Apple under NDA (like BMW) two things have to happen:

1. Porsche has to care to add the featue
2. they need to do the software + hardware changes required.

I would be very very surprised if any 2020/2021 Porsches have Apple CarKey support - 2022 would be the earliest model years…but only if Porsche is working on it right now and really really wants to bring it to market.

I’m open to be very pleasantly surprised, but I seriously doubt we’ll see anything in 2020/2021 model year vehicles.

 

[GEE]

I would also suspect VW & Audi would announce/implement the technology first.

Keyless access has never been a priority for me because of the security risk. However I’ve got high hopes for Car Key.

 

[Scandinavian]

Since we have not got Apple Car Play Wireless in the car yet, I think Apple CarKey will be quite a wait unfortunately. I am hoping that it will come but It might require more than just a Software update. And then you have all the licensing issues as well.

Let us keep asking for it!

 

[MissionC]

I doubt it’s a software update - car has to have NFC (short distance wireless transmitter/receiver) hardware added at various contact points on the car so that it can talk to your phone.

getting software support from automotvie supply chains is hard enough, but software + hardware changes = 2-3 year delay until it shows up in production (best case)…unless Porsche has been working with Apple under NDA (like BMW) two things have to happen:

1. Porsche has to care to add the featue
2. they need to do the software + hardware changes required.

I would be very very surprised if any 2020/2021 Porsches have Apple CarKey support - 2022 would be the earliest model years…but only if Porsche is working on it right now and really really wants to bring it to market.

I’m open to be very pleasantly surprised, but I seriously doubt we’ll see anything in 2020/2021 model year vehicles.

Since iOS 14 is getting released today, just wanted to chime in on this thread. Apple has sample developer code to build apps to detect and interact with NFC hardware, so I used that to build a little app and went over my car to see if my iPhone detected any external NFC hardware that would enable CarKey access - not surprisingly, none was found. The regular keys use a different RF model than CarKey’s NFC. Maybe the 2022 models will see it, but would also highly doubt it would be retrofittable.

 

[Dave T]

Since iOS 14 is getting released today, just wanted to chime in on this thread. Apple has sample developer code to build apps to detect and interact with NFC hardware, so I used that to build a little app and went over my car to see if my iPhone detected any external NFC hardware that would enable CarKey access - not surprisingly, none was found. The regular keys use a different RF model than CarKey’s NFC. Maybe the 2022 models will see it, but would also highly doubt it would be retrofittable.

Bummsky! Thanks for checking.

 

[MissionC]

Bummsky! Thanks for checking.

The other possibility is that the hardware is present, but not yet activated until Porsche ships a software update to enable it and light up the hardware. There’s still hope, but I think it’s low probability outcome.

 

[MissionC]

Also, not upset that I‘m not relying on my phone to unlock my car: https://techcrunch.com/2020/09/23/tesla-experienced-an-hour-long-network-outage-early-wednesday

 

[daveo4EV]

hmmmm - my Tesla worked fine during this "outage" - and Model 3 owners also have the ability to use a credit card RFID which I kept in my wallet - it confuses me that people were locked out of their vehicles, because I routinely unlock my Tesla in a parking structure with no cell/wifi connection - the "unlock" feature is 100% local point to point between the phone and the vehicle and only required Bluetooth which is unaffected by "server" outages…

also the NFC based design proposed by the working group is also 100% local point to point and required no external infrastructure once the vehicle and the phone are "paired" - there is even provision for the hosting platform (phone) to be nearly dead and the host OS being "offline" since the NFC chip can run independently.

what is "offline" is "remote control - climate control - adding new phones and remote status of the vehicle) but that is materially different that being locked out of your vehicle.

I've read the article and consider it vague and poorly documented - people could be locked out of their Teslas if they were logged out of the application and then attempted to login to unlock the car - this does happen - it's why I always carried the RFID card which never once failed.

carrying the RFID card is also good practice so you have something to "hand" a valet for your vehicle since you're not going to give them your phone.

fear of the NFC car key solution is purely FUD in my opinion - and reporting like this is pure sensitization with very little data - I find it hard to believe all Tesla owners were actually "stranded" and locked out - but maybe it's true. But it also does not match my experience as a 7 year customer of the brand and owner of their vehicles. My Tesla worked fine this morning, but my PMCC cable overheated last night and shut down the charging session.

so let's be clear…all this crap is complex and has failure modes.

 

[daveo4EV]

the NFC design proposed by this working committee will be as reliable as current FOB's/keys for your current vehicles, but actually much more secure since they are based cryptography that can't impersonate another key (a common problem with the vast majority of today's key fob's)

if you own a modern vehicle with a wireless key-fob - the NFC design here will be equally as reliable as there is no "server" involved in the pairing - so an external outage would not affect your phone or your vehicle for existing pairings.

FUD - pure and simple.

 

[porsche_coyote]

the NFC design proposed by this working committee will be as reliable as current FOB's/keys for your current vehicles, but actually much more secure since they are based cryptography that can't impersonate another key (a common problem with the vast majority of today's key fob's)

if you own a modern vehicle with a wireless key-fob - the NFC design here will be equally as reliable as there is no "server" involved in the pairing - so an external outage would not affect your phone or your vehicle for existing pairings.

FUD - pure and simple.

Indeed. Not only does an external outage not affect it, but at least with the iPhone implementation, you can still open your car even if the battery in your phone is dead.

 

[daveo4EV]

there is even provision for the hosting platform (phone) to be nearly dead and the host OS being "offline" since the NFC chip can run independently

@porsche_coyote gave a more clear explanation as to what I was going for with the quote above.

 

[svp6]

Would love that phone key - one of the things I am missing from my Tesla.

My latest Taycan bug is the spinning wheel on the PCM when I start the car, with the message on the dash "Maps loading". I can be patient, but it is annoying - can take 20-30 seconds in the morning. Since the Taycan is not smart enough yet to close the garage door automatically (why, oh why? - second thing I miss from my Tesla) this can be a nuisance, as there is no apparent way to touch the homelink garage door button. I had this once as I drove home, screen did not recover until my arrival. So I am thinking how in the world I am going to get in the house when I had vision - pushed blindly on the screen where the button is usually located. Just like magic, the door opened . Now this is what I call a real hidden button....

Still love the car.....

 

[MissionC]

There’s a huge difference between using the NFC capabilities of your phone to unlock/activate the car and using your phone, because it has an app, to unlock your car. The Tesla outage was real (I got that link from a friend who was locked out of his car and had no idea where the RFID card was) and there’s a big difference between local authentication to unlock a car and app-based auth requiring a backend system that has persistent connection to your phone and the car in order to process actions. I‘ve never owned a Tesla, but I thought relying on your phone was a key element of the Model 3 ownership experience.

Regardless, I hope use of stronger, NFC-based auth mechanisms improves as I’m on a quest to ditch my wallet and car keys. I’ve been able to ditch house keys and pay with most things via Apple Pay, so we’re getting closer...

 

[JoannePullman]

I lost my car key a while back and have been trying to get it for a while now without much luck. I have scoured the internet many times but have yet to find it. It bit me in the butt at one point, though, and now I am very anxious about letting it get any further than where it is right now. When something as important as your car key is lost, do not play rough with the most minor things. Luckily, I found out where to get the keys made. The guys from there did a great job and made me a high-quality duplicate.

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