Apple Music Announces Spatial Audio with Dolby Atmos

Fish Fingers

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I am an audio professional by career. This question does not have a simple answer. Cars are a non ideal listening environment at the best of times. And one that is constantly changing, by humidity, road noise, time of year etc. So this idea of “fine detail” in a car, where the shape is wrong, speaker placement is never ideal (by nature of the space), the fact that you may have an empty car or a full car, etc etc, is a bit misplaced.

Sure, if I park my Taycan in the conditioned garage, put on music, and listen I WILL hear the differences. But then again I am trained to create the original. Will most people? Even assuming “perfect” hearing (how many hours do you have in a convertible with no ear protection in your life?) I am relatively sure most people would not. I also have access to studio reference monitor systems.

And this is assuming you start with material that was properly produced.

My rule of thumb for audio and cars: avoid Bose when you can (won’t start a war here), or if you can’t turn off all DSP they use (if you can). Then use settings that give you the most fun while you are driving and listening to music. If you want fidelity park your car, create a good listening room with good (not perfect) speakers and enjoy!
Slight side issue...
How much does age affect hearing (in an average person) with regard music listening?
I know my Dad always used to mention it.

And what (in general) detiorates as you get older - high frequencies / low frequencies / detail etc?

Just interested.

........and also thinking we may save some of the older members some cash on the Bose and Burmester options. 😁
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f1eng

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High frequencies go first.
It is also powerfully genetic as well, it seems. My grandmother could hear what people were saying in the room next door even when she was in her late nineties whereas my wife, a professional musician was quite hard of hearing already in her 50s.
I spent a career in noisy racing car garages and I am like my grandma, I find people talking in the next room distracting.

OTO My friend who designs speakers and drivers for clients, and had 5 Klippel machines, can hear stuff which I can’t.
 

magnitude

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And what (in general) detiorates as you get older - high frequencies / low frequencies / detail etc?
As f1eng alluded to, the older you are the more trouble you have hearing higher frequencies. And there is no difference between "detail" (or anything else), and the frequencies you can hear. That's all hearing is, in mono at least. So if you'd knew exactly what frequencies you hear at what attenuation ("strength"), you'd have fully characterized you're hearing.

Of course, it's rather very hard (and would be very tedious) to do that.

Take into account that you have two ears, and spatiality/locating sound comes into play, but that's it then. The rest is your brain trying to make sense of it all, which might also be impacted (e.g. some people have "perfect hearing" but trouble isolating conversations in a room anyway).
 

magnitude

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And let me generally say: "Sadly", we've pretty much hit the limits of our hearing with the CD already. I say "sadly", because it's hard for people to accept that there is nothing left to optimize in terms of music formats.

A CD delivers frequencies up to 22.05kHz, which is above the documented hearing range. It also has a dynamic range of 96dB, which, while technically lower than the dynamic range of the human ear (~140dB), you'd be very hard pressed to actually find yourself in a situation where you can make use of more dynamic range, at least without turning it up so loud that you get hearing damage.

But increasing the sample rate, to e.g. 96kHz or even ludicrous 192kHz (reproducing 48kHz and 96kHz frequencies respectively)? Absolutely useless. Potentially harmful even, when non-linearities in your audio reproduction chain cause intermodulation distortion, which effectively turns these literally unhearable frequencies into crappy distortion in the audible range.

Speaker build and arrangement, room geometry, and materials on the other hand? That stuff is very hard to get right, with a lot to optimize.

So before you go chasing for useless 96kHz audio formats, buy better speakers, or even just throw a thick rug into your listening room. That will actually do something.
 

Fish Fingers

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And let me generally say: "Sadly", we've pretty much hit the limits of our hearing with the CD already. I say "sadly", because it's hard for people to accept that there is nothing left to optimize in terms of music formats.

A CD delivers frequencies up to 22.05kHz, which is above the documented hearing range. It also has a dynamic range of 96dB, which, while technically lower than the dynamic range of the human ear (~140dB), you'd be very hard pressed to actually find yourself in a situation where you can make use of more dynamic range, at least without turning it up so loud that you get hearing damage.

But increasing the sample rate, to e.g. 96kHz or even ludicrous 192kHz (reproducing 48kHz and 96kHz frequencies respectively)? Absolutely useless. Potentially harmful even, when non-linearities in your audio reproduction chain cause intermodulation distortion, which effectively turns these literally unhearable frequencies into crappy distortion in the audible range.

Speaker build and arrangement, room geometry, and materials on the other hand? That stuff is very hard to get right, with a lot to optimize.

So before you go chasing for useless 96kHz audio formats, buy better speakers, or even just throw a thick rug into your listening room. That will actually do something.
Thankyou for your explanations (and f1eng).
It is something ive wondered about as I start knocking on, and still avidly listen to music.
 


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As f1eng alluded to, the older you are the more trouble you have hearing higher frequencies. And there is no difference between "detail" (or anything else), and the frequencies you can hear. That's all hearing is, in mono at least. So if you'd knew exactly what frequencies you hear at what attenuation ("strength"), you'd have fully characterized you're hearing.

Of course, it's rather very hard (and would be very tedious) to do that.

Take into account that you have two ears, and spatiality/locating sound comes into play, but that's it then. The rest is your brain trying to make sense of it all, which might also be impacted (e.g. some people have "perfect hearing" but trouble isolating conversations in a room anyway).
Would you believe there seems to be an ISO standard for frequency loss with age 🤣🤣

Porsche Taycan Apple Music Announces Spatial Audio with Dolby Atmos IMG_1525


Locking at this it seems the likes of Burmester play frequencies for the birds rather than the owners if you are over 50 years old???
 

utsteve98

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I’m in my mid-40s and have some minor hearing loss and minor tinnitus. I previously had an MB with the high end Burmester 3D system and currently have a taycan with the Bose. I used wired CarPlay for the MB and Tidal music service with master quality and Dolby Atmos formats. I used wireless CarPlay with the taycan on same service. And now recently been trying the Apple Music app built into the PCM. My observations (or audible-vations if you will):

The MB with wired CarPlay was by far the best sounding and quite noticeable over any of the Bose configurations I tried. The Bose is not bad but somewhat disappointing compared tomy MB system. I will say I can hear a difference with the Apple Music through the PCM over wireless CarPlay over PCM. To the point I may drop tidal and go back to Apple Music.

So while I appreciate the debate on cars not being ideal studiios I agree. But where i disagree is that even with my old damages ears I can hear significant differences in most music with the above configurations. My next car I will go back to burmester and pay the premium. I’m sure I will hear the difference.
 

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I’m in my mid-40s and have some minor hearing loss and minor tinnitus. I previously had an MB with the high end Burmester 3D system and currently have a taycan with the Bose. I used wired CarPlay for the MB and Tidal music service with master quality and Dolby Atmos formats. I used wireless CarPlay with the taycan on same service. And now recently been trying the Apple Music app built into the PCM. My observations (or audible-vations if you will):

The MB with wired CarPlay was by far the best sounding and quite noticeable over any of the Bose configurations I tried. The Bose is not bad but somewhat disappointing compared tomy MB system. I will say I can hear a difference with the Apple Music through the PCM over wireless CarPlay over PCM. To the point I may drop tidal and go back to Apple Music.

So while I appreciate the debate on cars not being ideal studiios I agree. But where i disagree is that even with my old damages ears I can hear significant differences in most music with the above configurations. My next car I will go back to burmester and pay the premium. I’m sure I will hear the difference.
just a thought, but I think there is a wired CarPlay possibility in the Taycan; and when playing over a wired connection the CarPlay sound is lossless. You should try un pairing your phone form the PCM and then connecting over USB
 


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The old HiFi demo trick is to play the component you want to sell at a bit higher level.
It doesn’t sound obviously louder but does sound more dynamic and clearer.

A lot of expensive cables have been sold this way ;)

One recording engineer who noticed this happening in a HiFi show and commented on it was criticised rather than thanked!
I guess if somebody has paid a lot of money for some cables they want to continue to believe they haven’t been conned.
 

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Story here

Quote:

"CUPERTINO, Calif.--(BUSINESS WIRE)--Apple® today announced Apple Music® is bringing industry-leading sound quality to subscribers with the addition of Spatial Audio with support for Dolby Atmos. Spatial Audio gives artists the opportunity to create immersive audio experiences for their fans with true multidimensional sound and clarity. Apple Music subscribers will also be able to listen to more than 75 million songs in Lossless Audio — the way the artists created them in the studio. These new features will be available for Apple Music subscribers starting next month at no additional cost."
However, I still need to pay a monthly subscription fee. Still can't download these songs for free because of DRM encryption. I have to use DumpMedia Apple Music Converter to download songs.
 

Anber_liang

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If Apple Music really adopts Dolby Atmos sound effects, I will be very satisfied! Because I have always felt that the sound quality of Apple Music is very good, and now I do not use Bluetooth to connect Apple Music to play on my Tesla. I downloaded Apple Music with TuneSolo Apple Music Converter to a USB drive and uploaded it to the car. The sound quality is really good. I am looking forward to the arrival of Dolby Atmos sound effects. I can’t imagine the joy of playing reggae music in the car!
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