Apple Music Announces Spatial Audio with Dolby Atmos

Vim Schrotnock

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On Apples site, it look like the phone needs to be connected with the USB cable for CarPlay to use the new files.
I played a number of 'lossless' files that were streaming via Apple Music. The files cannot be transmitted via Bluetooth, but CarPlay evidently uses WiFi to communicate, as all files played with phone bluetooth off. I haven't researched this at all, so any information is welcome.
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I played a number of 'lossless' files that were streaming via Apple Music. The files cannot be transmitted via Bluetooth, but CarPlay evidently uses WiFi to communicate, as all files played with phone bluetooth off. I haven't researched this at all, so any information is welcome.
https://support.apple.com/en-us/HT212183
It's at the bottom of this link about CarPlay and a USB cable. It doesn't say it won't work with wireless, but it does say this.

Can I listen to lossless audio using CarPlay?
You can listen to lossless audio with CarPlay using a USB connection. Streaming lossless audio in a car over a cellular network will consume significantly more data.
 

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I think this thread should be renamed "Tim Cook Announces Another Marketing Gimmick to Make Money!"
 

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Errrr…..it’s free?‍♂
Technically, no it is not.

You have to have the latest Atmos-certified equipment (Apple ear pods, Beats, etc.) or late-model Mac to enable this feature.

Example: I have two reference-quality headphones (costing $$$) that are 100% excellent in their own right. But they do not have the blessing of St Cook therefore this Atmos feature is bricked.

I also have 20+ years in the audio industry and concur that "HD Audio / Lossless Audio" in any vehicle is a misnomer. It should be called "Dolby Tire & Wind Noise Bonus Feature".

This Atmos thing is merely a prod to "upgrade" your stuff with Apple so you don't feel inadequate with your circa-2019 audio accessories. Apple uses this technique across all their product line, and frankly I'm tired of it.

Honestly, most people over 40+ years already have enough hearing damage or age-related loss that they won't even notice much difference. Especially in a moving car.
 
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Well your point is that we won't be able to hear the difference of the new HD / Atmos features in a car, which is a point I and most people agree with. The jury is still out on the ability of the Bose / Burmester to process the HD and or Spatial in any case, hopefully it does, but in reality will we even know / care / hear the difference in any case.

But as a Taycan owner this costs me literally nothing, ergo it is free ;)

I agree with your other point on home equipment, but that's capitalism for you! In the world of A/V there is always an upgrade being sold to the user. I recently upgraded my home cinema from 1080p to 4k (probably not worth it) and 5.1 audio to Atmos (worth every penny!), so I know where you are coming from.

I've tried the new Spatial tracks on my airpod pros and I can't say I was that impressed - not enough to spend $$$ in your case to change headphones for sure. I'd be interested in your opinion on that as an audio guy, if you have had the chance to listen to the new stuff?
 

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I think this change may bring up the reconsideration of speccing the Burmester vs Bose for some people:

Would lossless music be significantly better on the Burmester or is Bose good enough to resolve the additional detail?​
Signal input quality can't be overstated. My wife's SUV came equipped with a Harmon/Kardon system and IMO it always sounded like complete sh!t while playing satellite radio. Then one day she popped in a concert DVD to watch while we were parked/waiting to pick up our kids from school. I could not believe how fantastic the sound had become. Bottom line, with audio input it really is garbage in-garbge out.
 

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Signal input quality can't be overstated. My wife's SUV came equipped with a Harmon/Kardon system and IMO it always sounded like complete sh!t while playing satellite radio. Then one day she popped in a concert DVD to watch while we were parked/waiting to pick up our kids from school. I could not believe how fantastic the sound had become. Bottom line, with audio input it really is garbage in-garbge out.
This is true. I can not emphasis ENOUGH how bad sattelite radio has been for years. Between a very low bit rate and older encoding it is not even good enough for speech, much less audio. And I am not saying this as a pro. It is incredibly bad. It is so bad that if you pay attention anytime there is a kick drum you can HEAR the loss of audio around the kick in time, you will notice a lot of singers sound Ike they are lisping and essentially you may also notice that your hearing will get tired after a little while as artifacts of bad compression are similar to distortion.

Its barely good enough for talk radio. Please folks, just say not to satellite radio music.
 


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Did this thread ever conclude if Burmester actually can deal with spacial audio with Apple Music?

If it can, only using the app in PCM, wired CarPlay or also wireless?

Dealers tend to throw in a "it should be better than without", but if Porsche supports this, are they just unable to relay the information out in the field 😅
Started wondering as my car keeps encouraging me to try Apple Music with spacial audio after the last over the air upgrade. Not sure it is new, but wanted to seek some confirmation here before shifting from Spotify to Apple Music.
 

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I think there’s confusion here. Dolby Atmos and lossless audio are not synonymous. Dolby Atmos is a mixing technique that provides an immersive version of a song, kind of like you’re sitting in a room with the band. Tidal’s had it for a while, for certain songs, and it’s cool but not the way I’d choose to listen to all of my music. And not every track is available in Atmos.

And you can’t get lossless audio files over Bluetooth in your car, so I’m not sure why that’s even a topic of discussion.
 

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I think there’s confusion here. Dolby Atmos and lossless audio are not synonymous. Dolby Atmos is a mixing technique that provides an immersive version of a song, kind of like you’re sitting in a room with the band. Tidal’s had it for a while, for certain songs, and it’s cool but not the way I’d choose to listen to all of my music. And not every track is available in Atmos.

And you can’t get lossless audio files over Bluetooth in your car, so I’m not sure why that’s even a topic of discussion.
CarPlay and Wireless CarPlay will convert down to 16bit / 44.1-48kHz which is the lowest tier of lossless support and sends the signal to the head unit as:

- Wired CarPlay sends 16b / 44.1-48 LPCM
- Wireless CarPlay transcodes and sends 16b / 44.1-48 as compressed AAC-LC

Wireless carplay uses WiFi not bluetooth
 

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My 2008 Cayman used to play DTS and FLAC from CDs... too bad Apple can't replicate that, i don't blame them most people have bad hearing.
 

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I think there’s confusion here. Dolby Atmos and lossless audio are not synonymous. Dolby Atmos is a mixing technique that provides an immersive version of a song, kind of like you’re sitting in a room with the band. Tidal’s had it for a while, for certain songs, and it’s cool but not the way I’d choose to listen to all of my music. And not every track is available in Atmos.

And you can’t get lossless audio files over Bluetooth in your car, so I’m not sure why that’s even a topic of discussion.
Sorry, but you are wrong. Dolby Atmos is not a mixing technique. It’s a technology for encoding spatial audio, whether through discrete channels or referencing audio objects in metadata. Then on playback its decoded, and on a proper Atmos playback system the decoder can work with how the audio system is setup to try and place those channels and objects in a 3D space.

It does require software (and a decent amount of hardware) to create, and it is not as simple as making a stereo or mono track so that requires some technique, but at its heart its a technology.

(I know some Dolby engineers, read the whitepapers, have two proper Atmos systems myself and was looking into converting my studio to Atmos but in reality it adds very little to a music experience).
 

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OK, so having read this thread and others like it I am still confused about the best way to play Apple Music.

I have lossless downloads on the music app on my iPhone. I think there are three likely paths:
1. USB connection to phone and use CarPlay
2. Wireless Apple CarPlay (presumably Bluetooth; one poster above says
It is wifi — however I don’t see any work setup requests when I connect)
3. Apple Music app in car, assuming decent cellular connection.

(and of course FLAC on USB stick but that is a different topic).

Which of these is recommended? How can I be sure if I choose 1 that the car isn’t either using 2 anyway - I get a pop up asking for Bluetooth permissions - or using lossy compressing on the way out?
 

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I have been a music lover since my teens and have a lot of recordings. I only have a tiny proportion, less than 1%, that were recorded and released as multi channel recordings, so I, as an old bloke have spent the money I would have pointlessly spent on multiple speakers on better ones for stereo.

If I score a properly treated room withexcellent monitors at 10/10 the best domestic home systems may get there too, but only if the room is devoted to music listening in terms of treatment and loudspeaker and listener location - not often feasible in a domestically acceptable living space, I have a dedicated room.
Typical smart speakers (the bigger ones aren't bad but seen as too big or expensive by most peoiple I know) and car systems rate 2 to 3/10 on this scale.

There is also the problem of terminology.
Compressed is used to describe reducing the dynamic range of an original recording, either to make its average louder in pop music or to make it "fit" into the dynamic range of domestic reproduction kit for classical.
Unfortunately compressed is also used to describe the lossless or lossy file size reduction strategies where the file is made smaller for cheaper storage and transmission. Lossy compression uses the fact that some sound is masked in the presence of other sound and is removed as inaudible.

There is much debate about at what level the degree of lossy compression becomes audible, and it requires a trained listener in a quiet room with much better kit than fitted to a car to tell the difference of normal commercial levels of compression.
I strongly doubt that any would be discernible on a car audio system.

OTOH the placebo effect, expectation bias and marketing are all strongly influential in what we think we hear.

After I retired I did some controlled, level matched and "blind" (I didn't know which I was listening to, my daughter made changes) which were very interesting in that some differences I was sure I heard disappeared when levels were matched.

Edit:
I had an internet glitch and didn’t notice the last bit hadn’t gone to the server so here goes:

I could hear the difference between microphones on my own recordings, and microphone position relative to performer (this makes a bigger difference than most would expect).
I can hear a difference when I move my listening position.
I could hear a difference between the 4 record decks I use.
I can hear the difference between my 5 sets of full range speakers and the change when moved in the room.

I could not hear any difference between the various bits of digital kit I have, from very expensive dCS to my recorder. There was an audible difference in reconstruction filters, where switchable, but not DACs when using a normal filter.

My amps all have adequate power and all sounded the same - and this was from 5 figure cost down to 3 figure cost.

I could hear no difference between a 24/96 file and the same file downsampled to 16/44.1 - so the laws of physics have been followed - there is no audible data in the extra file size.

So, particularly with DSP car systems where the file has been manipulated a lot anyway for loads of speakers, I should just play the music you like, fiddle with tone controls if you want to and enjoy.
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