at what point do we stop apologizing for Porsche

daveo4EV

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I'm at the point in my life that I choose not to worry about things that are essentially of no consequence to me. The car is awesome and the charger does what I need it to do. If/when the PMCC ever fails to meet my needs, the solution is just a couple hundred bucks for a new EVSE. Not sure I'm going to throw the baby out with the bathwater and start questioning Porsche's commitment to "the whole EV thing" because they didn't nail the design of the PMCC on the first go-round.
this is from another thread - but I didn't want to derail that thread - I want to derail this thread :CWL:

I understand this line of thinking but also I remember the vitrol with which people attack other car makers for not solving the whole problem?

the statement above is understandable and reasonable but at what point do we start admitting Porsche is behind in this game…

one of things that drew me to porsche was it's attention to detail and design into corners of automotive design that other "ignore" as "unnecessary"

but while I love my Taycan and consider it the best EV sports sedan on the market - albet at a price - so far after two years of ownership it only excels in Porsche's historical areas of excellence - and falls laughably short virtually all other dimensions that these days are required for automotive dominance
  • software
    • in car behind the curve
    • app behind the curve
    • cloud based behind the curve
  • OTA updates that take weeks to apply at a dealership and are far and few between - OTA here is also tongue and cheek - Porsche's notion of Over-the-Air (OTA) seems to be an eMail telling you to schedule your weeks long dealer visit to get the software.
  • EVSE that's overheat and are now officially down rated due to design problems
  • dealerships that are clueless regarding EV issues and deeply mislead customers
  • factually my Taycan has personally spent more days in service in two year than all 6 of my Tesla's combined - Porsche quality vs. Tesla quality don't make me laugh
  • fast charging network that is unreliable and a joke in North America
  • numerous recalls
  • complex charging software that takes a CS/EE degree to understand
now all of these issues have been discussed - and no one issue by itself is horrible - but we would all be laughing and pointing at this list of issues if it was happening to another car makers - but apparently because it's happening ot Porsche it's just fine and none of these issues are that bad

at what point do we stop apologizing for Porsche? These are serious issues, and if they don't get it together their build quality and mechanical engineering prowess will prove desperately insufficient over time and they will go down in stature - Porsche needs to start building competencies in some new areas otherwise this old school watch-maker stitch they have going on isn't going to carry the day.

they need to get serious about being the best at something other than stitching, steering feel, and brakes…cause I'm still taking my vehicle to the dealership and dropping it off for 2 weeks to received a software update that has color icons…my son's Tesla recieved two complete updates in the time my Taycan was at the dealership.

I expect better…and I'm having this thread so we can discuss if I'm alone in this.

friendly discussions only please ;-) but I believe these are issues worth wasting time on an internet forum about.

 
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This is my first Porsche, and I've only had it for a month so for you to quote me and accuse me of being a Porsche apologist is just laughable. I've only been on this forum for a minute or two, but it's obvious even to me from your posts that you have an axe to grind. IMO, you should just sell the car and go get another Tesla, rather than harbouring this much angst and vitriol. Now feel free to accuse me again of being a Porsche apologist. I'm out.
 

thecoloradokid

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@daveo4EV : I am usually agree with most of your posts, but you lost me on this one. Have you had other recent issues with your Taycan outside of what you shared?

I got the WNK1 update last week and Porsche Littleton did it in less than 6 hours. I have read other posts of dealerships struggling to get that update done, but my nearby dealership did it easily.

I could care less about the Porsche issued charger since I have a Chargepoint in the garage, and have not gone anywhere recently where I needed to rely on the portable charger that came with the car. In fact, It was you sharing your opinion on this board about the crap upgraded Porsche charger that gave me the reasoning why I did not pay for the upgrade and just going with the standard unit that came with my CT4s.

You have a thing for Tesla, and that is cool. I dislike Elon Musk for a number of reasons so he will never get any of my hard earned money again. The quality of the three different Taycans I have owned far out weights the quality of the Model X's and Model S' I have owned in the past. My 2nd Model S had a complete electrical failure in the 3rd week I owned it and left me stranded while I waited 5 hours for a tow truck to come rescue me in a rural part of Colorado. The failure was so severe that Tesla bought the vehicle back from me. Is that enough to condemn Tesla for everything it does, certainly not, but I have had worse luck with Tesla's than I have in the 2.5 years plus I have owned Taycans.

Outside of the first Taycan I received in May, 2020, when it had the early VIN build 12v issue, none of my subsequent Taycan's have spent a day in the shop other than for software updates/recalls. Sure, I would prefer an OTA, but having the car sit in the shop for 6 hours does not drive me too crazy since the dealership is 15 minutes away.

The car is not perfect, the charging infrastructure is far from great, but driving the car from Denver up any mountain pass offsets any of the negatives. At least for me.

I think this is a fair discussion to have, and people should keep Porsche accountable for what it produces, but for me, my CT4s meets my expectations.
 


Windpower

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they need to get serious about being the best at something other than stitching, steering feel, and brakes…cause I'm still taking my vehicle to the dealership and dropping it off for 2 weeks to received a software update that has color icons…my son's Tesla recieved two complete updates in the time my Taycan was at the dealership.
Sorry you are seeing all of these things. I haven't had the upgrade yet but I'm pretty happy with the performance of my Taycan. So far, I've had it back in the shop for one day since I picked up my car December 2021. The PCM, while not flawless, works well enough I rarely have issues. Sure, it would be super nice if it would be perfect, but I'm hoping it will be closer to perfect after this update.

While the Taycan 'over-the-updates' are not really over the air, I can also say that I have had plenty of issues with Tesla over the updates. Example: I have a 2021 Tesla model Y with radar as part of the auto steer function. But this month Tesla rolled out an over-the-air update which disables the radar. You can't believe all of the noise on the Tesla user forums about this: "Class action law suit ...", "Removing a feature which now makes the car less safe", and on and on.

I use a Juicebox 40 so any issues with the PMC+ are not seen by me (though I did see issues when I tried to use the PMC+ with my Tesla).

Honestly, I don't see much difference between the Taycan and Tesla in terms of what you get versus what the manufacturers say you are getting. Tesla is very very far from perfect.
 
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daveo4EV

daveo4EV

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I'll answer my own question

while I'm not going to get a Macan EV - I'm going to give Porsche a chance to "make some progress" on these issues with the Macan - which hopefully can incorporate the incremental improvements required to make a dent in some of these issues...

but if the Macan show little to any progress I'm going to have a difficult time believing Porsche is serious about being in a leadership position for EV's…

also I think the "sticker and lower amps" recall for the Charger is embarassing, but also means Porsche/VW/Audi are probably pursing a whole new EVSE design/product at least for the North American market - because the current product is irredeemable and has known problems…I would be unsurprised with a newer/better/simpler/more-robust EVSE from VW/Audi/Porsche

I also share a distain for Elon with @thecoloradokid which I separate from the pros/cons of Tesla (Elon is a big con of Tesla being Elon, but not the only one exclusively)

it's my deep desire to have viable alternative to Tesla that makes me want to push "the other guys" in this space but so far their response IMHO have been mostly "weak sauce" with the exception of the Taycan - but then you see all the EV things they are flailing at and that means Tesla is still viable

believe it or not for me personally - Porsche's success is critical in this space so that we have a viable alternative to Tesla…which is the ax I have to grind.

becuase I'm not trading a Taycan for a Plaid, but I'd love access to the supercharger network, I'll use my Tesla chargers (7 years old now and don't overheat) and would not turn down some actual OTA improvements from Porsche

we need Porsche to succeed so that we can all ignore Tesla…that's my thesis.
 

Jhenson29

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complex charging software that takes a CS/EE degree to understand
I still maintain that it’s not difficult or complex. It just doesn’t do certain things people want. 🙂

Edit: so to answer your question, I continue to apologize!
 


Reg

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I'm still taking my vehicle to the dealership and dropping it off for 2 weeks to received a software update that has color icons…
You should go to another dealer. I got my update in 2 days, but part of that was my dropping it off later in the day than I normally would. It has more than color icons, Carplay has really been snappy and excellent since then.

complex charging software that takes a CS/EE degree to understand
There is a 5 minute video on youtube that explains it really well. It really isn't that hard.


falls laughably short virtually all other dimensions that these days are required for automotive dominance
I didn't buy the car because I wanted to be part of automotive dominance, but I get that other people may have that as a criteria. I wanted something that was great fun to drive, solidly built and reliable. I got all that. Of course there are things that could be better, but for me, nothing that takes away from why I wanted the car. Your mileage may variable.
 

thecoloradokid

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@daveo4EV : thank you for clarifying your original post since it makes complete sense - we need viable alternatives to Tesla.

I guess we will find out how serious Porsche is in regards to EVs in late '23 or early '24 when additional details on the Macan EV come out. Will they finally enable real OTA's? Will the vehicle have 300 mile range? These are basic things the vehicle will need to be competitive.

I bought my son an ID4 for his last two years of college - the parking pass with free charging for the year was $350, so the economics just made too much sense than to send him back to school with his Tacoma. I have a Rivian on order for Q1 '23 delivery, so I am doing what I can to help support alternatives to Tesla.

Tesla will always be a player in the EV space, but there will be so many more options in the next couple of years that the weirdos like me who frequent forums like this will not have to obsess about what they like and don't like about the limited options we have now. There will be an EV flavor for everyone at that point.

Now, if we can get Electrify America to improve it's reliability, then we are talking!
 

TDinDC

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I personally am not wed to any brand. There are no downsides to promiscuity when it comes to automobiles, food, and, perhaps most importantly, wine.

My Porsches have always, always been extremely reliable. In fairness, I haven't had my Taycan long enough to determine whether this will remain true with this car. I intentionally waited for a few years before jumping in precisely because I wanted them to get the kinks worked out. But I really just haven't had many reliability problems apart from, perhaps, a catalytic converter that shattered during track days (and was paid for under warranty -- apparently un-ignited gas was entering into and exploding within the converter, which shattered the internals), a transmission that failed on a street car (pretty pissed about that one but Porsche gave me a courtesy discount despite being out of warranty), and a split tube on an oil collector for a race car that led to a blown engine but, you know, that's life for those with silly vices. Really, nothing else save wear and tear or things that were my fault. From my perspective, that's nearly Toyota reliability, and my cost of ownership (setting aside initial purchase price) has been very reasonable and less than many of my friends with other cars. And when I have bought used Porsches, my cost of ownership has been far less than anyone I know who has bought a new car of any other mark, including Hondas . . . etc.

I find many dealers to be extremely nice and friendly, but woefully ignorant when it comes to their products and customization, and that's even worse when it comes to something new like an EV. Now, I do think we have to be fair, because Porsche has SO many options that simply are not available in other marks. I mean, how hard is it to master the 4 or 5 options available for Teslas as compared to hundreds of options on Porsches, many of which the dealers themselves have not seen. But it is annoying and it makes it very difficult to know how things will work and how to configure a car. I end up doing my own homework and coming in basically with my mind made up (unless they can provide information that I did not know). I suspect that the Internet -- e.g., Porsche Whisperer -- will continue to make this better over time.

Software, apps and consumer oriented electronics are all absolute crap. This is the soft spot for the brand. We all know this. Should they be far better? Of course. Should we know this before jumping in? Of course. I expect that this will get better over time as CarPlay/Android Auto take over.

With respect to the Charger, I was having massive issues until I found an upgrade online and manually forced it myself. It seemed to fix the issues. I can get it to charge just fine when I set it at 38W (it shuts off at 40), but I typically run at 30 because it never, ever, matters to me at home.
 

LLA53

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I cannot agree with this at all, just look at it then look at any other EV including Tesla, no contest. All cars have issues I have had 4 Audis over the last 12 years and each one has more issues than my Taycan has had over the last 12 months. it’s had an uPdate and a new high temperature battery heater which they did when it went in for the uPdate. Every morning I step out of my house and just smile as I get in it. Maybe I’ve just been lucky and don’t have a Friday afternoon build, all I know is I love it , best car Ive ever had and it looks amazing as well.
Like everything it will evolve and only get even better 😊
 

WRC_1S

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Posts like this made really paranoid and nervous before I got my 22 RWD. I'm now almost 3000 miles into ownership and other than 2 very very minor PCM glitches my car has been amazing. Charging is simple so not sure what you are on about? Mebs it's your EA system in the US? I've had a few charging provider issues but not with the car. I've not had to use the manual to set the car up. I did the induction with the dealer and read a few posts on here.

I think a lot of people make these cars way more complex than they are. Just charge it and drive it. Play your music, connect your phone, use the navigation and chill out man. This forum is sometimes an echo chamber of people whinging and kicking off.
 
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BMonte13

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When I first saw the title of the thread I thought it was about apologizing to other car owners for having a Porsche. I get lots of stares, smiles, and thumbs up when driving. Oh, and I love my 22 Taycan after 5.5 months of ownership. Lastly, I mostly charge at home with energy from the sun with no problemo. Cheers.
 

 
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