🔋 Baseline for HV Battery SoH Performance (Battery Degradation Data by Taycan Owners)

[Bognar67]

Update on me at 30k km just before the 30k km service and software update as reported by the service advisor.
delivery: 07.16.2022
prod.: 06.26.2022
km: 29,941
mi: 18,713
SOH:91,82. Down ca. 1% in the last 3k km.

OP thanks for the works!

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[Bognar67]

I got some more data from a factory new (not really, was waiting 2 month for the 12V) Taycan with 50km:
99,82% SoH and showing "battery energy"* of 86,5 kWh.
one(!) day later without any further driven miles SoH dropped already to 98,8%.

This is not the first indicator, that SoH is not referring to 93,7 kWh net capacity but to 86,7 kWh, which means Porsche left another 3 kWh safety margin for possible customer claims in 6 years.

would be interesting to see your readings of *[C6.HV CHRGR] Battery energy in realtion to actual Display SoC and SoH.

there is another strange reading of [19.Gate] max energy content of the traction battery
but I cannot guess what this should mean, showing 14,85 kWh in my car.

Means ca. 77kWh actual capacity. Matching numbers as I see.

 

[ciaranob]

Means ca. 77kWh actual capacity. Matching numbers as I see.

Thx - chart update as usual in Post #1.

 

[ciaranob]

Was mucking about with different values to plot in the CarScanner histogram and changed from cell voltage to SoC for grins - this after a 85% at home charge session - noticed I seem to have a couple of 'rogue' cells in module 1 charging to higher (93.2)/lower (82.4) values than all others (all of which seem constant at 85). Checked settings in case I was selected some other value but no, def SoC - curious! The lower value I was thinking might just be use of car as I was operating the OBDII but the higher value harder to explain - might need to look at other values and keep track of any consistent observations (for slow days !)

 

[rs38]

that does not look healthy...glitch from the app?

 

[ciaranob]

that does not look healthy...glitch from the app?

Yes a little odd, an hopefully so - will drive some and let it 'settle" and take another look in a day or so. Will be interesting - worst case scenario perhaps a harbinger maybe of the weird sequence of minor events Scandinavian started to experience before his troubles - but getting ahead of myself

 

[Genau]

@Genau Good luck with the battery deep test results.
If you get any more details about the actual procedures used for the deep test, please share.

Short answer: It turns out the "deep test" is simply attaching the PIWIS to the Taycan and taking measurements periodically from high to low SoC (around 95% to below 10%). Due to the driving time, this worked out about $700 in labor, and the results were within 1% of what I measured with Car Scanner. Long story below.

Chronology

• Oct 27, 2020: Taycan 4S with performance battery plus purchased new. Battery capacity seemed low from the start (max range about 209 miles).
• Jan 3, 2023: First major service ("20K mile service") performed at 33,485 miles. I requested a battery state of health check. Response on invoice: "our tester don't printout have no option".
• Feb 11, 2023: Dealership serviced red "electrical system error" that only occurred with L2 charging at 34,126 miles (as well as heater failure). Dealership replaced 11 kW charger twice since first replacement did not work. (Heater replaced with PAD 963-507 and is still working as of Dec 24, 2023.)
• Aug 19, 2023: After three years of suspicion about the high voltage battery state of health, I finally bought an OBDII reader and used the Car Scanner app to view the cell voltages and pack SoH. Result: 75.57% SoH with two low voltage cells. This could trigger warranty service if confirmed by the dealership, so I booked an appointment for SoH measurement at the earliest available date of Sep 18, 2023.
• Sep 18, 2023: Dealership figured out how to perform SoH measurement, and confirmed 75% as reported by Car Scanner, but my mileage was now 39,526, whereas the HV battery warranty steps down to 70% SoH guaranteed after 37,750 miles. Therefore my HV battery was deemed acceptable and no service was performed, despite the poor battery capacity since new, and the two cells with abnormally low voltages. I paid $700 for this SoH confirmation, almost entirely for labor for the service technician to drive my Taycan with PIWIS attached from high to low SoC.
• Nov 26, 2023: Taycan failed again with red "electrical system error", but this time from entering the vehicle, and not just when attempting to charge. It did not clear overnight, so I had it towed to the dealership for service at 41,101 miles. Porsche replaced the entire HV battery under warranty, and I now have 99.82% SoH, and the latest design (2021+) HV battery.

Other details

• After the HV battery replacement, the dealership service representative told me that the warranty charge (billed to Porsche) was $44,400 + $13,065 core charge for the HV battery, plus about $9,000 for labor. So in the future if the battery is somehow damaged such that it cannot not be factory refurbished, then the retail price will be $44,400 + $13,065 = $57,465, not including labor.
• The dealership service representative told me that they had another Taycan customer with the same failure earlier in 2023, and at that time Porsche directed replacement of the reported bad battery modules only, rather than the entire HV battery pack. The rep told me that a Porsche engineer flew in from Germany to oversee the battery pack rework. They could not get the reworked pack to work properly, so after five months in the shop they bought the Taycan back from the customer. I was fortunate to have my HV battery failure after that because Porsche is now approving HV battery pack replacement based on initial symptoms rather than first attempting cell replacement.
• The dealership replaced four refrigerant pressure sensors at about $135 each plus labor, under warranty, per campaign WMP5, which I was not aware of. Per the invoice, "Removed all necessary components to access refrigerant pressure sensors and found all sensors required replacement." Glad to have that addressed before summer!

 

[SergeyIndy]

@Genau, what a story, very helpful with lots of details that dealers would typically not share with customers. My dealer can but will not share SoH levels with me during appointments. the OBDII reader has been helpful to keep an eye on it. Also, this deep test sounds like a joke with 1% accuracy difference from our OBDII readings that all of us can do measuring at different SoC levels the way your tech did for $700.

 

[Tooney]

Short answer: It turns out the "deep test" is simply attaching the PIWIS to the Taycan and taking measurements periodically from high to low SoC (around 95% to below 10%). Due to the driving time, this worked out about $700 in labor, and the results were within 1% of what I measured with Car Scanner. Long story below.

Chronology

Thank you for the details of your car's deep test and other issues.
--I'm glad your replaced battery is working well. Did the replacement battery increase your range from 209?
--During recent service visit, I requested them to share SoH of my car from PIWIS, not a deep test. At end of visit, tech told me the SoH is not visible using PIWIS, and that VAL report was being forwarded to Porsche elsewhere who would use report to give me SoH. No further info so far, I will follow-up next month.
--If your HV heater was replaced before Feb. 14, 2023, then the replacement did not have a manufacture date after Feb 14 like the ones replacing older heaters in the recent heater recall.
--Glad to get your confirmation that your OBD scanner SoH numbers are close to dealer's.
You have had more than your fair share of problems with your Taycan. Hope things are smoother in the future.

 

[MurfPT]

Was mucking about with different values to plot in the CarScanner histogram and changed from cell voltage to SoC for grins - this after a 85% at home charge session - noticed I seem to have a couple of 'rogue' cells in module 1 charging to higher (93.2)/lower (82.4) values than all others (all of which seem constant at 85). Checked settings in case I was selected some other value but no, def SoC - curious! The lower value I was thinking might just be use of car as I was operating the OBDII but the higher value harder to explain - might need to look at other values and keep track of any consistent observations (for slow days !)

How do you see this chart in the odb scanner app? Thanks in advance

 

[ciaranob]

How do you see this chart in the odb scanner app? Thanks in advance

Just a custom one - you can either change values of an existing chart or build your own on a new page - bit laborious but a one time setup.

 

[Genau]

--Did the replacement battery increase your range from 209?

I haven't driven far enough to assess range yet, but for what it's worth, the guesstimated range is roughly 20% improved.

--During recent service visit, I requested them to share SoH of my car from PIWIS, not a deep test. At end of visit, tech told me the SoH is not visible using PIWIS, and that VAL report was being forwarded to Porsche elsewhere who would use report to give me SoH. No further info so far, I will follow-up next month.

The service tech provided the below screenshots from the PIWIS State of Health diagnosis function.

• The "before overnight drive" report on Sep 18 2023 shows "quick measurement" test failure due to SoH of 75% when specification is 80%. (I believe spec = 80% was based on them not realizing the warranty specified minimum SoH is only 70% after 37,750 miles).
• The "after test result" on Sep 21 2023 shows "long term measurement" test pass at 77% SoH when specification is 70% (matching warranty specified minimum SoH after 37,750 miles).

Here's how the service tech wrote up the SoH measurement on the invoice, in two separate operations:

• 51POZ01, Body Electrical Concern, Hours: 1.0, $232.00
  "Performed state of health of battery. Drain voltage of battery down to 7% to continue with next step then let vehicle set door lock for 3 hrs. Then continue with next step is to charge battery up to 80% and gave a check mark for passing the state of health of battery."
• 51POZ02, Body Electrical Concern, Hours: 2.0, $464.00
  "Recommend from customer for 2 overnight drive need to drain battery to 10% to continue the state of health of the battery. Had to drive vehicle overnight to drain battery voltage to proceed with battery of health. Drain voltage of battery down to 7% to continue with next step then let vehicle set door lock for 3 hrs. Then continue next step is charge battery up to 80% and gave check mark for passing the state of health of battery." (I think "recommend from customer" was actually when the service rep called me asking if I wanted to proceed with the tech's recommendation.)

--If your HV heater was replaced before Feb. 14, 2023, then the replacement did not have a manufacture date after Feb 14 like the ones replacing older heaters in the recent heater recall.

Yes, I won't be too surprised if the replacement heater also fails.

--Glad to get your confirmation that your OBD scanner SoH numbers are close to dealer's.
You have had more than your fair share of problems with your Taycan. Hope things are smoother in the future.

Thanks, all things said I can't think of a car I'd rather own.

 

[Tooney]

@Genau Thank you for the additional info and pictures.
It looks like the "deep test" involved discharging the battery, turning car off for a period of time, charging the battery, checking SoH, discharging the battery, recharging the battery, checking SoH.

Did you get any indication if the SoH measurement (used to determine "pass" or "fail") was some kind of average compiled from a series of repeated SoH measurements over time, or just a final SoH reading at the end of the discharge, power off, recharge process?

 

[ciaranob]

@Genau Thank you for the additional info and pictures.
It looks like the "deep test" involved discharging the battery, turning car off for a period of time, charging the battery, checking SoH, discharging the battery, recharging the battery, checking SoH.

Did you get any indication if the SoH measurement (used to determine "pass" or "fail") was some kind of average compiled from a series of repeated SoH measurements over time, or just a final SoH reading at the end of the discharge, power off, recharge process?

This is essentially exactly what a no. of us here have done previously with our cars - not a full discharge but down to 5-10% followed by full charge etc. and all saw from between a 1 to 2.+ pt. increase in pre-cycling SoH - again as prev reported here, a rebalancing of cells. Involved 3 readings., before, during and after. Separately, four prior ‘deep’ tests here all also confirmed that the OBDII data collected is accurate to within 1-2% of those test results.

 

[Genau]

Did you get any indication if the SoH measurement (used to determine "pass" or "fail") was some kind of average compiled from a series of repeated SoH measurements over time, or just a final SoH reading at the end of the discharge, power off, recharge process?

Unfortunately on that service visit I did not have the opportunity to speak with anyone knowledgable so all I have to go on is the documentation.

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