Boy, I Sure Hope There’s an Upgrade Path

[kort]

Exactly. You aren't going to be able to upgrade a battery pack with a new battery pack or new hardware, but the software part could be upgraded. That is what both the forum poster and Twitter poster are implying. Something for nothing. I will take that deal anytime. Let's see what happens.

what exactly would a software upgrade be that would improve the battery pack?

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[daveo4EV]

when there is a “list/definition” of a battery “upgrade” - I’ll be happy to weigh in.

”a man says his car was delay’d while Porsche updated his battery” - “update” in this context is vague - it not necessarily an ”improvment“ they could just be applying the latest software to fix the 12V drain problem or some such…

so far I see nothing documented here or anywhere that Porsche has any “improvements” that are “upgrade” worthy

Also I wouldn’t rule out “battery module” swaps - one potential advantage of EV’s is batteries are very very modular - who’s to say we won’t get “battery upgrades” in the future - now no matter how much I like that idea - I think those sorts of changes will come as the EV market matures - so I don’t think we’ll see that possibility in the market anytime soon - but I wouldn’t rule it out as an ongoing evolution of the EV automotive market…

but regarding this thread - I don’t see any “upgrade” to wish that I could have…

 

[JimBob]

what exactly would a software upgrade be that would improve the battery pack?

Not a software guy but something like
If x <= y then the range is z
Fill in whatever values you like for z.

Porsche has previously indicated that the BMS uses a lot of lookup tables whose parameters would have been determined by testing. As more data becomes available and confidence increases then the parameters can be changed. Without new hardware, software changes are the cheapest and fastest way to increase range.

Porsche is a really conservative company when reporting specs. Do you really think they are fully utilizing the current capacity of the battery?

 

[kort]

Not a software guy but something like
If x <= y then the range is z
Fill in whatever values you like for z.

Porsche has previously indicated that the BMS uses a lot of lookup tables whose parameters would have been determined by testing. As more data becomes available and confidence increases then the parameters can be changed. Without new hardware, software changes are the cheapest and fastest way to increase range.

it sounds like you are talking about changing battery management to squeeze a few more miles from the car. tesla tried something like this with so-so results. I'd rather see the engineering efforts used in other more productive ways.

 

[Dee]

Yeah sure, Porsche will upgrade our battery pack for free...
Sure, let's give everyone a €50K pack for free, just because it's improved...
Where is this thread going to?
I'm out.

PS Applying Moore's law on an EV is just ridiculous.
What do you want to measure that will double every year anyway??
I think you just mean new insights and that's nothing new.

 

[kort]

PS Applying Moore's law on an EV is just ridiculous.
What do you want to measure that will double every year anyway??
I think you just mean new insights and that's nothing new.

while I agree with your assessment that porsche will not upgrade current vehicles, do you really believe that we've advanced the tech to it's limit? while the battery capacity might not increase at a moore's law rate of expansion, it certainly will increase.

my theory is that less effort needs to placed on getting range to 500 miles or even 1k miles when the majority of cars are used locally and are charged at home.
for the road trippers maybe only a 300 mile, or pick your number, would be sufficient if high speed chargers became as ubiquitous as filling stations are currently.

 

[chrisk]

But even if a new battery would fit the Taycan would you pay $30-40k (because that is how much Porsche would charge) to get it into your Taycan for say +30-50 miles of range?

 

[Dee]

while I agree with your assessment that porsche will not upgrade current vehicles, do you really believe that we've advanced the tech to it's limit? while the battery capacity might not increase at a moore's law rate of expansion, it certainly will increase.

my theory is that less effort needs to placed on getting range to 500 miles or even 1k miles when the majority of cars are used locally and are charged at home.
for the road trippers maybe only a 300 mile, or pick your number, would be sufficient if high speed chargers became as ubiquitous as filling stations are currently.

I don't say that.
I'm just implying that Moore's law has absolutely NOTHING to do with it.
It's just common forthgoing development of a technology.
It just can't be defined by "Moore's law".
It only sounds interesting but it's not, actually it's just plain stupid to use this expression, that's what I'm saying.
And yes, batteries will evolve, no question about that.
It's kinda obvious.

 

[Genau]

But even if a new battery would fit the Taycan would you pay $30-40k (because that is how much Porsche would charge) to get it into your Taycan for say +30-50 miles of range?

The battery permanently loses capacity, and therefore range, over time (technically over charge cycles). Let's say ten years from now the battery has only 150 miles of range, and a new technology drop-in replacement provides 350 miles of range, weighs less, but costs $40k. Seems like a good deal to me compared to scrapping the Taycan or being limited to short trips.

 

[chrisk]

The battery permanently loses capacity, and therefore range, over time (technically over charge cycles). Let's say ten years from now the battery has only 150 miles of range, and a new technology drop-in replacement provides 350 miles of range, weighs less, but costs $40k. Seems like a good deal to me compared to scrapping the Taycan or being limited to short trips.

I don't see how spending $40k on repairs for a 10year old car that will be worth probably no more than $20k at that time is a good idea.
Instead you can sell the car for $20k and add another $40k and with the $60k you can buy a 4-5 year old Taycan.

 

[JimBob]

Yeah sure, Porsche will upgrade our battery pack for free...
Sure, let's give everyone a €50K pack for free, just because it's improved...
Where is this thread going to?
I'm out.

PS Applying Moore's law on an EV is just ridiculous.
What do you want to measure that will double every year anyway??
I think you just mean new insights and that's nothing new.

Dee's law. You can't upgrade a Porsche.

 

[Dee]

Dee's law. You can't upgrade a Porsche.

Oh boy, your comprehensive reading is way off.
But then again, Canadians always are.
Sorry about that.

 

[JimBob]

Oh boy, your comprehensive reading is way off.
But then again, Canadians always are.
Sorry about that.

Why are you complaining.? You have your own law in company with all the great minds throughout history. I wouldn't mind one of those.

And as to Canadians. Didn't we rescue you after D Day?

 

[Dee]

The battery permanently loses capacity, and therefore range, over time (technically over charge cycles). Let's say ten years from now the battery has only 150 miles of range, and a new technology drop-in replacement provides 350 miles of range, weighs less, but costs $40k. Seems like a good deal to me compared to scrapping the Taycan or being limited to short trips.

Incorrect.
These new cells only loose about 10% max in about 100.000 mls.
More and more data show Lipos do way better than expected, even when using fastchargers.
So 30 mls on a 300mls range isn't that much of a deal in everyday's driving...

 

[Dee]

Why are you complaining.? You have your own law in company with all the great minds throughout history. I wouldn't mind one of those.

And as to Canadians. Didn't we rescue you after D Day?

"We"?
You had nothing to do with that soldier, say thanks to your grandfather and honour the ones that deserve it.
Don't take credit for the things you didn't even take part in...such a shamefull comment.
Btw, I wasn't even born yet so it wasn't me "you" were saving, sorry.
Lol, you are funny though.
It's good to have a laugh here!
Thanks!

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