Car died over night…

[wmras]

Wouldn’t it be nice if Porsche modified the connect application to sound an alarm on your phone, before the 12V vehicle battery died! You would then - maybe - have the option to wake your car into life, before it died.

Just a thought.
Although the issue then would be Porsche admitting they caused the problem. . . .

Attempted to do this with the Battery Tender wireless voltmeter, but it requires a dedicated 2 GHz WiFi network and their application is not ready for prime time.

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[putty_thing]

Attempted to do this with the Battery Tender wireless voltmeter, but it requires a dedicated 2 GHz WiFi network and their application is not ready for prime time.

Antigravity make a battery monitor for lithium batteries which might do the trick: https://www.antigravitybatteries-uk...tion/antigravity-battery-tracker-lithium.html (UK link, but I think they're widely available in the US)

I use one on my sportbike and it works great, updates when you're in bluetooth range.

 

[wmras]

Antigravity make a battery monitor for lithium batteries which might do the trick: https://www.antigravitybatteries-uk...tion/antigravity-battery-tracker-lithium.html (UK link, but I think they're widely available in the US)

I use one on my sportbike and it works great, updates when you're in bluetooth range.

Thanks! Here is the US link:
https://antigravitybatteries.com/products/accessories/battery/chargers/bluetooth-tracker-lithium/

 

[Vim Schrotnock]

OK, I'm now part of the DBC (Dead Battery Club).

I was working on the car installing the iPad screen protectors, and I had the radio on during this time. The car shut off after about 15 min, so I turned the radio back on - a total of about 30-45 min time was spent with the 'accessories on'. I completed my work, pulled the car back out of the garage and put it back in. Everything was fine, and I plugged the charger in with my 'Home' profile. Charging was fine, and I went to bed.

Next morning the car was dead. I performed the fuse box charge to get the key fob to open the trunk, then charged the battery. I noticed on my connect app that the charge was 100% and it was now set to 'direct charge'. I took the car into the dealer at lunchtime, and they were extremely responsive, checked the car out and found nothing wrong.

The explanation I got was that the battery contacts will 'open' if the battery voltage exceeds 16V or is below 10V, and the car then has no source of electricity. They said that you should not run the car on accessories for more than 15 minutes. I asked them how I was able to pull the car out of the garage and back in, along with setting up the charging, and they didn't have a good answer. I also told them that they need to tell every single person who buys this car about this problem if in fact you cannot run the accessories for more than 15 minutes. Anyone who owns a car will likely do this at some point.

There is definitely a problem with the battery/software and the communications between Porsche and Taycan owners. As has been said many times in this thread, this MUST be resolved. It needs to be communicated IMMEDIATELY to any Taycan owners that this problem will occur if they operate the accessories the way they normally do with ICE cars. No excuse whatsoever not to do this immediately.

In the meantime, I've got a 12V compact LI charger in my trunk and hopefully will not have to use it. I'm still trying to figure out why I was able to operate the car afterwards if my 30-45 minutes of accessory use was the cause of the problem.

 

[daveo4EV]

@Vim Schrotnock - sorry you got to join the club…

i believe the dealer service is making crap up - they have no idea what they are talking about and are attempting to apply legacy ICE thinking to a new vehicle they do not understand.

the simple fact of the matter is the vehicle is dying while plugged into AC charging - and the big battery is not ”catching” the 12V bolt under certain drain circumstances.

may I ask what type of charger were you plugged into when the vehicle died? PMCC?

 

[Vim Schrotnock]

@Vim Schrotnock - sorry you got to join the club…

i believe the dealer service is making crap up - they have no idea what they are talking about and are attempting to apply legacy ICE thinking to a new vehicle they do not understand.

the simple fact of the matter is the vehicle is dying while plugged into AC charging - and the big battery is not ”catching” the 12V bolt under certain drain circumstances.

may I ask what type of charger were you plugged into when the vehicle died? PMCC?

Yes, PMCC. Here's another item that people should be aware of - posted in the 'ask the Porsche dealer anything thread'

Not a great first experience with my Turbo S. I am in the US with a NEMA 14050 plug and 50A circuit, Porsche Mobile Charger Connect and the Porsche Charging Dock and the dealer had checked out the direct charging with their fast charger. I had driven the car for two days and had about 80 miles left without plugging it into my home charger. The first time I plugged it into my home charger I heard a loud 'click' from the front of the car and the charger went dead. I had thrown a circuit breaker in the 50A circuit.

I called both the Porsche dealer and the recommended electrician that installed the 50A circuit. The electrician was extremely good, and verified the circuit was perfect, and even volunteered to take the mobile charger to the dealer before I brought my car in. The mobile charger checked out perfectly. After two days, they determined that I had a bad AC converter. I was told they needed to order the part from Germany, which would take three weeks, and I said that was unacceptable. They were very responsive and overnighted the part and I had the car 4 days later. The sales rep accompanied me back to my home and verified AC charging was OK, and then followed me to the Electrify America station to verify 350kW DC charging. Knock on wood - everything appears to be ok now, with the exception of the dead battery mentioned in other threads.

Anyone else seen this problem?

 

[daveo4EV]

there is simply _NO_ excuse for the vehicle to “die” when there is plenty of charge/capacity in the “big battery” and it’s plugged into the “wall” with “shore power” - this is _NOT_ matter of the vehicle lacking sources of power to keep the 12V alive (i.e. leave the vehicle unplugged at a parking complex with 3% SOC on the main battery for several weeks)…if the 12V went dead in this circumstance I think all of us would understand - but we’re having vehicles die with plenty of power while connected to an exteranl AC power source - zero excuse for this.

the vehicle should _NOT_ be allowing the 12V battery to die even with accessory used - we have freakking 93 kWh batteries and 240 volt power from the wall - there is plenty of power on tap to keep the 12V battery in spec and alive…

porsche has got to fix this!

 

[MARTY7]

there is simply _NO_ excuse for the vehicle to “die” when there is plenty of charge/capacity in the “big battery” and it’s plugged into the “wall” with “shore power” - this is _NOT_ matter of the vehicle lacking sources of power to keep the 12V alive (i.e. leave the vehicle unplugged at a parking complex with 3% SOC on the main battery for several weeks)…if the 12V went dead in this circumstance I think all of us would understand - but we’re having vehicles die with plenty of power while connected to an exteranl AC power source - zero excuse for this.

the vehicle should _NOT_ be allowing the 12V battery to die even with accessory used - we have freakking 93 kWh batteries and 240 volt power from the wall - there is plenty of power on tap to keep the 12V battery in spec and alive…

porsche has got to fix this!

Agreed, however, this issue is not just Porsche, it's VW, Tesla, all of them. It seems nuts we need a 12 volt at all, other than for pure emergency use!

 

[daveo4EV]

the 12V battery serves two purposes on an EV

1. it’s the starter battery so the 400/800 volt DC battery can remain offline and safe when not in use
2. it’s a bridge to the existing myriad of 12V parts that remain common between between EV’s and other vehicles - the existing supply chain is 12V entrenched and redesigning all these parts will probably never happen

so the big battery powers the drive train and charges the 12V battery, and the 12V battery runs all the _NON_ drive train electrical components. Over time I expect the supply chain to migrate to non-12V for some big ticket components (head lights maybe for example)…

but I expect in 50 years we’ll still have about the same number of 12V parts in a modern vehicle as we do today - because there’s just no point in redesigning them.

no one needs an 800V power window motor - I expect the electric motors in power windows to be 12V forever…as an example.

 

[SwissTaycan]

I hope this does not happen to me at some point in the future when the car gets delivered. Question though: How many of these cars are MY 2020 and 2021? In other words is it also happening on MY 21 as often? Technically it should not as any update should work for all... but you never know. Ghost in the machine ;-)

 

[chrisk]

Wouldn’t it be nice if Porsche modified the connect application to sound an alarm on your phone, before the 12V vehicle battery died! You would then - maybe - have the option to wake your car into life, before it died.

Just a thought.
Although the issue then would be Porsche admitting they caused the problem. . . .

If the car could detect when the battery is ready to die then it could also revive the 12v battery so it wouldn't have to notify you at all. Porsche is either in total darkness of how to fix or they do know but they don't want to fix it (too expensive or bad publicity)

 

[Xsquid]

What are the lithium battery chargers people are getting or recommend?

Porsche 12v battery chargers seem to be re-branded CTEK chargers - there is a specific one that will charge LiFePO4 batteries called the LITHIUM XS but be careful to buy one with a UK 3pin plug or you will get a continental 2pin.

 

[daveo4EV]

keep in mind the following facts:

• the draw that causes the 12V to die is probably too much for any of the 12V trickle chargers to overcome - but I don't know for a fact, but when the 12V dies - it dies because of a high load and dies in a reasonably short time frame (less than an hour, far less)
• most 12V trickle chargers will not be able to offset this drain.
• once the 12V has tripped "offline" it's isolated behind a relay and the 12V tickle charger will _NOT_ be able to get power to the 12V battery
• 12V trickle chargers do _NOT_ provide enough power to power the vehicle once the main 12V battery has dropped offline…so you'll have to still follow the recovery procedure to recover the car
• the fact that you never experience the problem if. you have a 12V trickle charger proves nothing, because the problem is intermittent, and a software bug, and is non-reproducible we can not prove the problem does or does not occur due to any particular circumstances

basically I'm highly dubious that a 12V trickle charger accomplishes anything in this space - it's not enough to offset the drain (when it's happening) and it's not enough to wake up the car once the 12V battery has tripped offline…but I could be wrong.

 

[Scandinavian]

keep in mind the following facts:

• the draw that causes the 12V to die is probably too much for any of the 12V trickle chargers to overcome - but I don't know for a fact, but when the 12V dies - it dies because of a high load and dies in a reasonably short time frame (less than an hour, far less)
• most 12V trickle chargers will not be able to offset this drain.
• once the 12V has tripped "offline" it's isolated behind a relay and the 12V tickle charger will _NOT_ be able to get power to the 12V battery
• 12V trickle chargers do _NOT_ provide enough power to power the vehicle once the main 12V battery has dropped offline…so you'll have to still follow the recovery procedure to recover the car
• the fact that you never experience the problem if. you have a 12V trickle charger proves nothing, because the problem is intermittent, and a software bug, and is non-reproducible we can not prove the problem does or does not occur due to any particular circumstances

basically I'm highly dubious that a 12V trickle charger accomplishes anything in this space - it's not enough to offset the drain (when it's happening) and it's not enough to wake up the car once the 12V battery has tripped offline…but I could be wrong.

CTEK have a function to reset the Lithium battery Undervolt Protection. You have to press a reset button for 10 sec plus and that should open up the protection relay to allow the charge process to commence. Is it correct that an elevated voltage is the key to wake up the car? Once this is done you should be able to turn on the car and let the main battery charge up the 12 volt battery.

The charger is also capable of providing 4.3 amps I believe. I would be very surprised if the car would really draw more that that when the 12 volt problem occurs? But I do not know how much the drain is in such an event?

 

[H@wk]

4S+ dead again connected to wall charger. Second time in 3 weeks. Getting to be a bit annoying for a car this expensive.... Reported the issue (again) to Porsche Assistance tonight, will go look for my start booster tomorrow... Oh well...

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