Charging normally in my home garage

[daveo4EV]

FYI - for anyone ”having an electrician visit” - the cost for installing a circuit is not the amp rating but rather than labor for the electrician to pull wire and reconfigure your main panel for the new circuit - installing a “bigger” circuit for your EV charging (if your panel can handle it) should only be minor incremental cost and will pay dividends in the future as your EV demands grow by allowing faster charging and potentially multiple EV’s charging…

labor costs (2/3’rd of the cost of the entire electrician bill) is the same labor for a 50/60/80/100 amp circuit - there is only minor differences in materials cost for a bigger circuit and minimal increase in labor costs to install a bigger circuit in your garage.

this is your first EV, not your last EV- and is unlikely to be your only EV…

a little planning and a little bigger circuit (60/80 amps) will make the EV transition from 1 to 2, and faster charging cheaper and easier in the future, and means the electrician will only visit once.

food for thought.

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[rquinton]

also spend the time to run the extra wire to the ideal location for any EV charger in your garage - you’re going to be using this charger for years - spending an extra hour or two running some extra gauge 6 wire to a ideal location in the garage is well worth the effort and any extra wire/conduit cost.

my preferred location for EV charger is as close to the garage door as feasible - so that your 25ft cord can also “reach” into the driveway to charge an EV that might be parked outside the garage as well as inside the garage.

there are overhead pully systems for tools that work well for stringing EV charging cables “over head” and then pull down the charging connector on what ever side of the car will work for charging.

So for clarity, if you ran 6 gauge wire and the PMCC doesn't last, you can change the 50 amp breaker to a 60 and direct wire to one of the 48 amp chargers (direct wiring) and you can then increase the charge to 11Kw? Just wondering as I ran 6 gauge and am one of the few that is getting a No Charge PMCC from Porsche as we were in the build timeframe where they are honoring the no cost charger and are crediting my MSRP by the cost of the charger (see other thread).

Thanks Dave in advance.

 

[daveo4EV]

yes 6 gauge wire will support 60 amp breaker 48 amp charging - so the swap/upgrade in the future from 50 amp breaker to a 60 amp breaker would _NO_ issue

NOTE: wire gauge requirement for XX amps vary by length of the run - so consult your local electrician for the “correct” gauge given the length of your particular “run” - my overall point is if 8 gauge is the requirement - then you might go bigger amp rating and request 6 or 4…but only your licenced electrician can advise you on the correct gauge wire for your particluar home and circumstance (not me or the internet) but once we’ve establish what is required, bump it up to the next or 1 or 2 gauges from the base requirement to provide some head room for the future.

there is _ZERO_ safety or performance issue with running a smaller breaker on higher amp wire

I’m a super big fan of pulling higher AMP wire and simply swapping the two ends in the future - the MAJOR labor cost _IS_ the wire pull - and it’s virtually no different to pull 4, 6, 8 gauge wire - might as well pull the highest quality highest amp wire - then in the future swapping a breaker can be a 20 minute DIY project...

if you can handle it - I really really recommend a 100/125 amp breaker and new feed to your garage - and a small 100 amp subpanel in the garage - even if you only have a NEMA 14-50/6-50 plug and 50 amp breaker in the garage subpanel - once you have a high amp feed to a subpanel in the garage - changing/playing/adding new circuits from a subpanel in the garage is then a DIY project - no permits required as long as you don’t exceed the overall 100/125 amp capacity of the new main breaker...

 

[daveo4EV]

 

[daveo4EV]

full disclosure - 4 gauge vs. 6 gauge vs. 8 gauge wire _WILL_ have a cost difference cause it’s more copper, and copper is expensive these days - so there will be sticker shock between the different types of wire - but the labor costs will remain mostly the same - and in the overall project (labor, new circuit, parts, wire, and charger) the cost for a higher amp circuit will be incremental but should not be devastating…

this is a capital improvement to your home and is going to be used for _YEARS_ and your current and future EV’s -my approach is NOT to skimp in this area and give yourself some room to grow without haveing the electrician visit multiple times…

based on my personal experience (7 years with EVs) and watching friends and co-workers transition to EV’s - I can say with 98% certaintity - this is not your LAST EV, and it’s not your ONLY EV - there is MORE EV in your future not LESS…and once you have one EV you’re going to want your 2nd car to be an EV also…

and good home charging infrastructure is a key ingredient to EV ownership happiness - 60/80/100 amps of power to your charge makes having 2 EV chargers trivial and is really effectivce for plug & play no hassel dual EV charging over night…and the incremental cost from your electrician will be truly minimal…

 

[daveo4EV]

and yess don’t wimp out on the wire cost - install copper (not aluminum) wire - it’s better and that’s why it costs more - simply swallow the cost to do it once, and do it right the 1st time - you’ll thank me in 1 to 2 years when you get your 2nd EV.

 

[W1NGE]

FYI, even if you don’t order the “Connect” version with the car (the one that costs money), the 2021 models COME WITH the new “Porsche Mobile Charger Plus” for FREE. It’s not a smart charger (ie doesn’t connect to WiFi) but I literally spoke with my dealer this morning (my 2021 is on order and being made now, so had questions for them on this just like you are asking) and they CONFIRMED with Germany that the new “Porsche Mobile Charger Plus” comes with the car for free and comes with a 14.5 foot cable, a NEMA 14-50 plug (level 2 charging) AND a NEMA 5-15 plug (level 1 charging)... can switch them out... Just have your electrician install a 50 Amp NEMA 14-50 plug in your garage (which allows you to charge at 40 Amps... which = a 9.6kw speed).

I personally plan on leaving the Porsche Mobile Charger Plus in the trunk of the car, and installing a 3rd party charger in my garage - which, as others above me have noted, can be had for around $600 (instead of the $1,200+for the Porsche “Connect” one)... brands to consider: ChargePoint, Enel-x juicebox, ClipperCreek, Grizzl-e, etc. I personally am likely going to go with the ChargePoint Homeflex model. Electrician coming next month to get me all wired up so I’m all set when my car comes in mid-April.

In summary... get a 3rd party charger for your garage and keep the FREE Porsche Mobile Charger Plus in your trunk for when on the road. And NOTE: this new “Plus” model Charger is for 2021 models, so previous posts you’ll note on this forum with members who have 2020’s were in a different boat (most were forced to include the “Connect” version with the car and the 2020’s did not come free with this new “plus” model).

I believe the PMC+ is networkable according to the operating manual (that’s what + gives you). It has a lower output to the PMCC (9.6kW rather than 22 kW max) and doesn’t have the touch screen display. I’m also not sure how well it fits in the Porsche Charging Dock as it is a lower profile to the PMCC.

 

[daveo4EV]

also keep in mind there as US tax advantage for “the installation of EV charging equipment” - so some portion of the cost to install your EV charging circuit+hardwire is covered by some sort of tax deduction - consult your certfiied tax person not me - but there is no real cost limit - so installing a bigger circuit with some incremental cost will be offset by some tax advantage, but only in the year you do it initially

so from the “in for a penny in for a pound” school of thought - got big or go home - there is little to any advantages in nickle and diming this particluar aspect of EV ownership - and again it will be for your current & future EV’s - so it’s a one time expense with a one time tax benefit.

60/80/100 amps is a GREAT multi-EV charging infrastructure for home charging.

 

[daveo4EV]

also for clarity - the porsche charger is a decent 9.6 kW charger with adequite mobility and _IS_ the path of least resistance and will serve most owners just fine for the life of ownership of the Taycan

so there is nothing overtly wrong with going the porsche charging route + NEMA 14-50 - it will work well and charge the taycan just fine...anyone going this route can be confident and comfortable with this choice for their Taycan.

but if you pull back the curtain some modest changes to your approach (at the expense of more work and breaking out of the porsche eco-system) - the porsche offering in this space is pricey version (even when it’s “included”) when compared to some competitor EV J-1772 chargers that are actually better, more flexible and more powerful that what is offered in the porsche eco-system universe.

I also strive to point out - the Porsche charger is simply a Porsche version of an industry standard J-1772 EV charger (EVSE) - and these chargers are not vehicle or manufacturer specific - in the north american EV universe you can safely assume/plan to charge your EV with _ANY_ standards compliant J-1772 EV charger - and those chargers can serve you well across EV’s from multiple vendors...

the porsche charger for example charges my 2019 Chevy Bolt just fine at the Bolt’s 32 amp limit of 7.68 kW - it also charges my friends Volt just fine (at 3.6 kW) and my wife’s Model X at 9.6 kW, eTron, Leaf, Model 3, and any number of other J-1772 EV’s sold in north america - so the Porsche charger is just a rather expensive and bulky J-1772 EV charger with support for a NEMA 14-50 plug - it’s not a Porsche charger for porsche cars - it’s a $1,200 J-1772 40 amp 9.6 kW EVSE that is no better and slightly worse than any number of other 40 amp J-1772 $300-$500 alternatives.

you do not have to purchase or use only the Porsche charger....you’re free to use _ANY_ J-1772 EV charger available on the market.

Porsche is a good but pricy option, and in my opinion there are better options - but nothing wrong with the porsche option - it’s well matched to the vehicle and easy path for a new Taycan owner.

however one can take longer view - and install one really good J-1772 EV charger for your Taycan and all your future EV’s also and not be locked into thinking I own a car from vendor “X” so I can only use vendor “X” charger...you have the option to install/use _ANY_ charger you like so that give you options and choices and most are way cheaper than the Porsche option - and in this one space the Porsche is not in fact better - they are just more expensive - which is uncommon for Porsche - as a Porsche fan most of the time their cost can be justified with it also being better than the alternative not just more expensive - in the case of their charger offering it’s just more expensive.

 

[mc9er]

yes 6 gauge wire will support 60 amp breaker 48 amp charging - so the swap/upgrade in the future from 50 amp breaker to a 60 amp breaker would _NO_ issue

NOTE: wire gauge requirement for XX amps vary by length of the run - so consult your local electrician for the “correct” gauge given the length of your particular “run” - my overall point is if 8 gauge is the requirement - then you might go bigger amp rating and request 6 or 4…but only your licenced electrician can advise you on the correct gauge wire for your particluar home and circumstance (not me or the internet) but once we’ve establish what is required, bump it up to the next or 1 or 2 gauges from the base requirement to provide some head room for the future.

there is _ZERO_ safety or performance issue with running a smaller breaker on higher amp wire

I’m a super big fan of pulling higher AMP wire and simply swapping the two ends int eh future - the MAJOR labor cost _IS_ the wire pull - and it’s virtually no different to pull 4, 6, 8 gauge wire - might as well pull the highest quality highest amp wire - then in the future swapping a breaker can be a 20 minute DIY project...

if you can handle it - I really really recommend a 100/125 amp breaker and new feed to your garage - and a small 100 amp subpanel in the garage - even if you only have a NEMA 14-50/6-50 plug and 50 amp breaker in the garage subpanel - once you have a high amp feed to a subpanel int he garage - changing/playing/adding new circuits from a subpanel in the garage is then a DIY project - no permits required as long as you don’t exceed the overall 100/125 amp capacity of the new main breaker...

100% this. Having my electrician run the thickest cable possible (feasible?) from my main panel (in the basement) to the garage and run it into a new 150 Amp sub-panel in said garage (overkill? Most likely! Could easily do much less than 150 sub-panel but that's not how my mind works). YOUR RESULTS WILL VARY DEPENDING ON THE POWER IN YOUR HOUSE / HOW MUCH YOU HAVE AVAILABLE. I'm lucky to have a lot of power available in my house.

From this new sub-panel, can more easily change, edit, grow, etc. as I get new EV's in the future much easier than having to re-run wires, add new wires, etc. all the way from the main power source in the basement. Most likely event to trigger this will be when my wife decides she wants one too and we'll then have 2 EV's in the garage vs. just my forthcoming Taycan! Sub-panel makes this easier but NOT necessary.

 

[daveo4EV]

the ClipperCreek “share2” EV chargers are a great growth option for the future multi-ev family - share2 chargers from ClipperCreek allow two separate chargers to share one high capacity breaker (50/60/80/100 amp) - when only EV charger is being used that single EV charger get the full capacity of the shared breaker - when two EV’s are being charge the load is seamlessly and automatically “split” such that each EV gets half the capacity of the common breaker - if one EV finished charging before the other the remaining EV gets the full capacity to finish it’s charging session faster…

it’s a killer system and makes charging multiple EV’s childs’ play and seamlessly optimizes your investment in a high capacity home charging infrastructure…

it’s for that reason that I highly recomend the ClipperCreek chargers with share2 support - cause you can buy one Share2 charger today - and simply “add” the 2nd share2 charger later when you get your 2nd EV - if you have a subpanel like @mc9er the addition of the 2nd ClipperCreek share2 charger will be nearly trivial - and well with in the capacity of any DIY homeowner since all the hard AMP load and wire pulls are done, we’re just adding “one more charger” to the existing system and it will be configured to share the existing AMP capacity.

once you get your first EV I can almost guarrentee you’ll be chomping at the bit to replace your other gas car with another EV - and having a plan in place for charging both of them will make the transition easy and fun…

+1 for @mc9er feedback - this is not a short term change to your home - you’re installing the infrastructure you’re going to use to charge EV’s for the next 15-25 years…done right you can do it only once.

 

[daveo4EV]

overkill? Most likely! Could easily do much less than 150 sub-panel but that's not how my mind works

I LOVE me some overkill - @mc9er and I are going to get beers and discuss high amp home charging infrastructure installs!!!

 

[NC_Taycan]

100% this. Having my electrician run the thickest cable possible (feasible?) from my main panel (in the basement) to the garage and run it into a new 150 Amp sub-panel in said garage (overkill? Most likely! Could easily do much less than 150 sub-panel but that's not how my mind works). YOUR RESULTS WILL VARY DEPENDING ON THE POWER IN YOUR HOUSE / HOW MUCH YOU HAVE AVAILABLE. I'm lucky to have a lot of power available in my house.

From this new sub-panel, can more easily change, edit, grow, etc. as I get new EV's in the future much easier than having to re-run wires, add new wires, etc. all the way from the main power source in the basement. Most likely event to trigger this will be when my wife decides she wants one too and we'll then have 2 EV's in the garage vs. just my forthcoming Taycan! Sub-panel makes this easier but NOT necessary.

This is exactly what you want to do for future-proofing. 100A or 150A run from your meter (may need a new cut-off switch at your service entrance) to a new sub-panel in your garage, then you have all kinds of options for now and the future.

 

[mc9er]

I LOVE me some overkill - @mc9er and I are going to get beers and discuss high amp home charging infrastructure installs!!!

Next time you make it to Wisconsin, a New Glarus Spotted Cow on me!

 

[mc9er]

I believe the PMC+ is networkable according to the operating manual (that’s what + gives you). It has a lower output to the PMCC (9.6kW rather than 22 kW max) and doesn’t have the touch screen display. I’m also not sure how well it fits in the Porsche Charging Dock as it is a lower profile to the PMCC.

Noted! Great to know. Do you have a digital version of the manual you can link to? The dealer, of course, didn’t

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