Charging to 100%?

BliXem

Member
Joined
Nov 29, 2019
Messages
17
Reaction score
2
Location
Netherlands
Vehicles
Tesla Model 3
Are you gonna charge your Taycan every day to 100% at home? If I understand it correctly, Porsche did build in a charge margin. So, if you charge to 100% it's really 88%, right?
 

Singularity

Well-Known Member
Joined
Jun 21, 2019
Messages
85
Reaction score
78
Location
Finland
Vehicles
Audi A7, Taycan 4S Performance Plus (delivery Feb/2020)
I certainly will. The whole point of the large margin is that owners don't need to worry about optimizing the battery life too much by thinking constantly about how to charge. It'll last long anyways.
 

ThomasDK

Active Member
First Name
Thomas
Joined
Oct 23, 2019
Messages
39
Reaction score
15
Location
Denmark
Vehicles
BMW I3
When I ordered the car there was a Garantie paper, and it says “for every day use the car must be adjuster to 80% max charge”.
If you can read Danish

030FEA3B-B4D6-451A-B0DE-6F2BC6298AF7.jpeg
 
OP

BliXem

Member
Joined
Nov 29, 2019
Messages
17
Reaction score
2
Location
Netherlands
Vehicles
Tesla Model 3
  • Thread starter
  • Thread Starter
  • #4
No, cannot read Danish, only Dutch and English ;-). That's weird that they require 80% for every day use. Why not 100%? 100% is 88%. Are they saying if you are driving like 60km max it's 80%. If you have a road trip it's 100%?
 

ThomasDK

Active Member
First Name
Thomas
Joined
Oct 23, 2019
Messages
39
Reaction score
15
Location
Denmark
Vehicles
BMW I3
Maybe someone got the same document in English!? But I was also surprised, for the buffer in the porsche battery is Very conservative. I drive a BMW i3, and I can not change the charging. Always to 100%.
They also write:
Parking for more than 2 weeks the % must be within 20-50%
 

SHN

Well-Known Member
First Name
Svein Halvard
Joined
Mar 21, 2019
Messages
51
Reaction score
28
Location
Norway
Vehicles
Tesla Model S
I had an eGolf. Can’t remember that was the case for it. It’s probably a mix up. 80% is true for Tesla (80-90%) with no buffer. However, the car manufactors are conservative regarding garantees, like 70% degration in 8 yrs for an EV with battery management and cooling.
 
OP

BliXem

Member
Joined
Nov 29, 2019
Messages
17
Reaction score
2
Location
Netherlands
Vehicles
Tesla Model 3
  • Thread starter
  • Thread Starter
  • #7
Maybe someone got the same document in English!? But I was also surprised, for the buffer in the porsche battery is Very conservative. I drive a BMW i3, and I can not change the charging. Always to 100%.
They also write:
Parking for more than 2 weeks the % must be within 20-50%
In the Porsche Brochure I find this on page 51:

II. Battery A lithium-ion battery is subject to physical and chemical ageing, as well as wear and tear. This reduces the battery capacity, depending on the usage pattern and environmental conditions, resulting in a reduction in range and an increase in charging times as the battery ages. Due to the effect of temperature on battery and charging performance, as well as battery life, please consider the following when parking, driving and charging your car:
• If possible, avoid permanent ambient temperatures of over 30°C, such as prolonged parking in direct sunlight.
• If you cannot avoid ambient temperatures of over 30°C when stationary, connect the vehicle to the mains supply after use and charge the high-voltage battery with AC (alternating current) to a maximum charge status of 85%.
• If the car is left stationary for more than two weeks, the ambient temperature should, if possible, be between 0°C and 20°C and the battery charge status maintained between 20% and 50% during this time.
• For the shortest possible charging time, a battery temperature of approx. 30°C to 35°C is ideal.
If charging the car on a daily basis, the maximum charge status of the high-voltage battery should be set to approx. 80%.
 

JC Mann

Active Member
First Name
JC
Joined
Oct 2, 2018
Messages
27
Reaction score
12
Vehicles
Cayman S, Tesla Model S
In the Porsche Brochure I find this on page 51:

II. Battery A lithium-ion battery is subject to physical and chemical ageing, as well as wear and tear. This reduces the battery capacity, depending on the usage pattern and environmental conditions, resulting in a reduction in range and an increase in charging times as the battery ages. Due to the effect of temperature on battery and charging performance, as well as battery life, please consider the following when parking, driving and charging your car:
• If possible, avoid permanent ambient temperatures of over 30°C, such as prolonged parking in direct sunlight.
• If you cannot avoid ambient temperatures of over 30°C when stationary, connect the vehicle to the mains supply after use and charge the high-voltage battery with AC (alternating current) to a maximum charge status of 85%.
• If the car is left stationary for more than two weeks, the ambient temperature should, if possible, be between 0°C and 20°C and the battery charge status maintained between 20% and 50% during this time.
• For the shortest possible charging time, a battery temperature of approx. 30°C to 35°C is ideal.
If charging the car on a daily basis, the maximum charge status of the high-voltage battery should be set to approx. 80%.
My Tesla Model S says 90% unless going on a trip, in which case starting at 100% is okay. I read recently that if battery is fully charged, regen charging won’t work. I deduced that’s because there’s no place for charge to go. Of course, Tesla does regen vice coasting while Taycan can coast, but uses regen almost exclusively for breaking the car.
 

Scandinavian

Well-Known Member
First Name
Peter
Joined
Nov 3, 2019
Messages
82
Reaction score
45
Location
France
Vehicles
Tesla M3P, Porsche 996 C4 Cab
No, cannot read Danish, only Dutch and English ;-). That's weird that they require 80% for every day use. Why not 100%? 100% is 88%. Are they saying if you are driving like 60km max it's 80%. If you have a road trip it's 100%?
I do read Danish and understand it. I do not think this advice is for Porsche only.

I have understood this to be valid for all the batteries of this Li Ion technology. It also applies to mobiles and tablets.
It is also evident that the last 10 percent between say 90 % and 100% creates a lot of heat and heat is what the batteries are not friends with. It also takes much longer for the last ten percent as the DC chargers slow down the charge rate when using the high power chargers.

And yes the regeneration is very limited when charging to 100%. I wonder how Porsche will handle this since it seems the initial brake pedal effect is regeneration and not using the discs? Could this be a reason why Porsche only utilise 88% of the available battery capacity, so that regenerative braking can avail of the extra capacity?

There is a Tesla model S in Germany that has just celebrated 1 Million km’s driven and is aiming for 1 Million miles. He has been forced to change batteries though, but he said he never almost never charged to more than 80% and mostly via AC chargers at home, at hotels etc. So it is possible to make these batteries last a very long time when looked after.

I think I it is sound advice from Porsche to recommend these charging levels.
 

SHN

Well-Known Member
First Name
Svein Halvard
Joined
Mar 21, 2019
Messages
51
Reaction score
28
Location
Norway
Vehicles
Tesla Model S
There is a different in how Porsche and Tesla manage available capasity. Porsche has added a buffer and you will not be able to charge to 100%, only ~90%. Meanwhile, Tesla gives you the whole capasity and you can charge to 100%. Therefor Tesla recommend you to charge to 80-90% for daily use.
 

AlphaG

Well-Known Member
Joined
Apr 18, 2019
Messages
73
Reaction score
39
Location
South Texas
Vehicles
Lotus Elise, Chevy Volt, Model X
Ok this is ridiculous. There is a built in buffer that is not an accessible charge capacity, so apparent charge to 100% should only fill up to 88% of real battery capacity. Now Porsche also says that for regular daily use charge to 80% of apparent capacity?? So 80% of 88%??? This calculates to around 70%. If so I may be out. I was ready to settle for less range than a MS but not that much.
 

SHN

Well-Known Member
First Name
Svein Halvard
Joined
Mar 21, 2019
Messages
51
Reaction score
28
Location
Norway
Vehicles
Tesla Model S
Ok this is ridiculous. There is a built in buffer that is not an accessible charge capacity, so apparent charge to 100% should only fill up to 88% of real battery capacity. Now Porsche also says that for regular daily use charge to 80% of apparent capacity?? So 80% of 88%??? This calculates to around 70%. If so I may be out. I was ready to settle for less range than a MS but not that much.
Basically all EV manufactors except Tesla do it this way. When I get mine, I will charge to 100% knowing that there is a buffer.
 

Singularity

Well-Known Member
Joined
Jun 21, 2019
Messages
85
Reaction score
78
Location
Finland
Vehicles
Audi A7, Taycan 4S Performance Plus (delivery Feb/2020)
They are simply being *super* conservative with the instructions as this is their first all electric car. I'm personally fairly confident charging often to "100%" won't cause any significant degradation due to the large buffer.
 

charliemathilde

Well-Known Member
Joined
Aug 11, 2019
Messages
275
Reaction score
219
Location
CA
Vehicles
911
Ok this is ridiculous. There is a built in buffer that is not an accessible charge capacity, so apparent charge to 100% should only fill up to 88% of real battery capacity. Now Porsche also says that for regular daily use charge to 80% of apparent capacity?? So 80% of 88%??? This calculates to around 70%. If so I may be out. I was ready to settle for less range than a MS but not that much.
it’s pretty silly and I wouldn’t worry about it. You want to keep the charge between 20-80% of it’s true capacity, but there’s plenty of data from Model S owners showing minimal degradation after many years of 10-90%. Avoid charging at extreme temperatures. You won’t break it, though. You’d need to break the guidelines frequently over years to even notice a small change.

the battery chemistry is the same as the Model S, although the taycan has much better thermal management (the model 3 has denser batteries and better thermal management than the model S. The cheaper Tesla is better).
 

ThomasDK

Active Member
First Name
Thomas
Joined
Oct 23, 2019
Messages
39
Reaction score
15
Location
Denmark
Vehicles
BMW I3
In the Porsche Brochure I find this on page 51:

II. Battery A lithium-ion battery is subject to physical and chemical ageing, as well as wear and tear. This reduces the battery capacity, depending on the usage pattern and environmental conditions, resulting in a reduction in range and an increase in charging times as the battery ages. Due to the effect of temperature on battery and charging performance, as well as battery life, please consider the following when parking, driving and charging your car:
• If possible, avoid permanent ambient temperatures of over 30°C, such as prolonged parking in direct sunlight.
• If you cannot avoid ambient temperatures of over 30°C when stationary, connect the vehicle to the mains supply after use and charge the high-voltage battery with AC (alternating current) to a maximum charge status of 85%.
• If the car is left stationary for more than two weeks, the ambient temperature should, if possible, be between 0°C and 20°C and the battery charge status maintained between 20% and 50% during this time.
• For the shortest possible charging time, a battery temperature of approx. 30°C to 35°C is ideal.
If charging the car on a daily basis, the maximum charge status of the high-voltage battery should be set to approx. 80%.
Same Text as the Danish.
 

Top