Cross Turismo on & off road review

kempez

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Fair point.
Maybe my issue is thinking the Taycan can be both a daily and a thrilling drive. It does the former better than the latter.
Having both a DD and a fun car as you do is maybe the better solution. I only have space in my garage for 2 cars, one of which is occupied by my wife. So my DD also needs to be my "fun car"; the issue is that while it is a great DD, it lacks a little on the thrill side for reasons I explained earlier in this thread.
I'm interested to see how mine fairs when I get it, but having driven one on track: I think it will perform the 'fun' bit incredibly well. It's not an all-out sports car, but as a very practical daily, it has huge potential.

And yeah: I'm still waiting on it like many others! 😴 ;)
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W1NGE

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I like Harry's reviews too but unfortunately a few incorrect statements within the first few minutes started to grate on me (PB+ - inference is it is now standard from when he had th 4S - it isn't as we know, it's still extra on the 4S (and others) but standard on CTs (and others), agree 100% with the interior choice comment (wrong choice), suspicious of his range calculations (I think he based it on the gross capacity and not the net (93k.4Wh rather than 83.7kWH) which would lead to the stated 270 miles (or so) given the stated 3mi/kWH (and visible on the dash at one point).

Convinced also that any AWD Taycan would have gone up and down his field (ground clearance permitting) which is more a comment on the excellent AWD system (an AWD Taycan is awesome in the snow on std tyres (no substitute for winter tyres before anyone points that out) as I've commented on before).

Don't mean to be a bah humbug. Harry's reviews are always better than most of the rest.
 

TDinDC

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Evidently he thinks the offroad design package gives the car higher ground clearance. It really show how deceptive marketing of this feature is.
Actually, I'm pretty certain it does. If you have the off-road package, when you put it in Gravel mode, you get an extra 10mm in height over the maximum height for normal Cross Turismo.

Now, I think only a few are going to be using a CT in a way where this will make a tremendous difference, but it does help. I mean, the difference between the standard Taycan and the Taycan Cross Turismo with Off Road package in Gravel mode is only 30 mm/1 1/4", so nobody is going to take this thing on Safari, but it will help during snow season or taking that occasional dirt or mud road. On that note, this is still AWD, so I am assuming that this is a no-no for beaches because you will strand yourself immediately (despite the Porsche marketing). It's funny/sad seeing all of the kids get stranded on the beaches of the outer banks thinking that AWD will work not knowing that AWD cuts power to wheels without tracking so that many AWD cars just come to a halt on the beach.

When I bought the CT, I was choosing between (1) the CT; (2) a used Ferrari Lusso; or (3) a new Ferrari plus keeping my Tesla Model X.

I ended up not buying any Ferrari because, as great as they sounded, I felt like driving an ICE vehicle -- even a very nice ICE vehicle -- was like driving yesterday. I'll wait at least until Hybrid or full electric before I reconsider Ferrari, McLaren, Aston Martin, etc . . . (I'm not old enough to drive Mercedes).

The CT hit that sweet spot of essentially being an all-season SUV that sat low to the ground and drove more like a sports car. I'll confess that if the Ferrari SUV had been introduced earlier, I might have considered driving yesterday's car, but I am happy with the choice I made.

Porsche Taycan Cross Turismo on & off road review Taycan Cross Turismo ground clearance heights with without Offroad Design Package
 
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W1NGE

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Actually, I'm pretty certain it does. If you have the off-road package, when you put it in Gravel mode, you get an extra 10mm in height over the maximum height for normal Cross Turismo.

Now, I think only a few are going to be using a CT in a way where this will make a tremendous difference, but it does help.

When I bought the CT, I was choosing between (1) the CT; (2) a used Ferrari Lusso; or (3) a new Ferrari plus keeping my Tesla Model X.

I ended up not buying any Ferrari because, as great as they sounded, I felt like driving an ICE vehicle -- even a very nice ICE vehicle, was like driving yesterday. I'll wait at least until Hybrid or full electric before I reconsider Ferrari, McLaren, Aston Martin, etc . . . (I'm not old enough to drive Mercedes).

The CT hit that sweet spot of essentially being an all-season SUV that sat low to the ground and drove more like a sports car. I'll confess that if the Ferrari SUV had been introduced earlier, I might have considered driving yesterday's car, but I am happy with the choice I made.

Taycan Cross Turismo ground clearance heights with without Offroad Design Package.png
ORDP adds 10mm additional ground clearance when chassis is set to 'medium'.

Porsche Taycan Cross Turismo on & off road review 1664809452876
 

TDinDC

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ORDP adds 10mm additional ground clearance when chassis is set to 'medium'.

1664809452876.png
Ok, well I’m not certain, but 10 mm 1/4” doesn’t really matter anyway, but I do think this was basis for Harry’s comment
 


f1eng

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Evidently he thinks the offroad design package gives the car higher ground clearance. It really show how deceptive marketing of this feature is.
I thought so too.
The CT has a 20mm higher ride height in normal mode than the saloon and adding the off road package adds another 10mm, making it 30mm higher than the saloon in normal mode.

The gravel mode raises it still further.

No idea how sport and sport+ compare with the saloon though.

A lot of my friends and family are farmers and the extra ride height is good for me. A normal saloon car often bottoms and I am not getting a Chelsea tractor for anybody.
 

whitex

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I thought so too.
The CT has a 20mm higher ride height in normal mode than the saloon and adding the off road package adds another 10mm, making it 30mm higher than the saloon in normal mode.

The gravel mode raises it still further.

No idea how sport and sport+ compare with the saloon though.

A lot of my friends and family are farmers and the extra ride height is good for me. A normal saloon car often bottoms and I am not getting a Chelsea tractor for anybody.
Yes, the CT has a higher clearance than the sedan, however CT with Off Road Design Package does not have a higher clearance than without it, it actually has less.

As you can see in the picture in post #18 above from @TDinDC, the maximum suspension height with or without the off road design package (ORDP) is identical. What ORDP does is redefine Normal and Sport modes to High, rather than Medium suspension level. That raises the car by 10mm in Normal and Sport as compared to CT without ORDP, something you can do without ORDP yourself by simply riding at High. There are threads around here somewhere speculating that the 10mm default raising of the car is to compensate for the approximately 10mm of plastics under the car from the ORDP panels (I couldn't find the photos showing the measurement, but they are somewhere on this forum). Bottom line is that at maximum height (Lift) the CT without ORDP actually has higher clearance as it does not have the plastic decorations taking up 10mm under the body.
 
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backslashed

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Sorry folks, the off road package makes no difference in ride height other than changing the default ride height to “high”.

Porsche Taycan Cross Turismo on & off road review 4E994E24-F421-4CFC-AF85-15CDCFD915EB
 


f1eng

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Sorry folks, the off road package makes no difference in ride height other than changing the default ride height to “high”.

4E994E24-F421-4CFC-AF85-15CDCFD915EB.jpeg
Well quite!

It is only the ride height the car is running at that counts nothing else and it is clear from this that if you drive with the setting on normal the CT runs 20mm higher than the saloon and has 20mm more bump travel and that the CT with Offroad pack runs 10 mm higher.

The hardware capability is literally irrelevant as long as it is enough.
Even if the car physically was capable of 30cm of suspension travel it is where you actually run it that counts so this graphic confirms that the Off road package adds 10mm to the ride height.
 

whitex

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Well quite!

It is only the ride height the car is running at that counts nothing else and it is clear from this that if you drive with the setting on normal the CT runs 20mm higher than the saloon and has 20mm more bump travel and that the CT with Offroad pack runs 10 mm higher.

The hardware capability is literally irrelevant as long as it is enough.
Even if the car physically was capable of 30cm of suspension travel it is where you actually run it that counts so this graphic confirms that the Off road package adds 10mm to the ride height.
ORDP adds 10mm to max suspension travel in default Normal mode and Sport mode, not all modes. If you drive in Normal mode, you get 10mm more travel with ORDP, but same max clearance due to extra plastics on the bottom of the car. If you drive in Lift, ORDP has 10mm lower max clearance but same travel. You can save yourself money on the ORDP by driving with customized ride height same as with ORDP Normal, but also getting 10mm higher max clearance.
 

TDinDC

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With regards to the whole "one-dimensional" aspect, Harry didn't go into a whole lot of detail but I can agree with him to a certain extent, and for a couple of reasons:
  1. Driving the Taycan is "too easy" meaning you don't have to think about gears, RPM, turbo lag, grip, etc. You just press the pedal and go very fast very easily. It feels a little like playing Monopoly with already a very thick stack of Monopoly dollars. There's just not a lot of thrill in it
  2. The adjustability of the car mid-corner just isn't there. Maybe that's the same issue as the weight, maybe it's the AWD, maybe it's the PSM, maybe the long wheelbase, and maybe all of these plus more. I just find that it's just not very natural to (a) find/predict what the limit for the Taycan will be before entering a curb ("will the car understeer, will it grip, am I going too fast"?) and (b) when at the limit adjust the car on throttle or brakes. My prior gen 911 felt way more predictable and adjustable, like an extension of my arms/bum.

I know there's a fine line between ease of driving/challenging/engaging etc. but I find that a little challenge to the driver goes a long way towards maximising the driver's satisfaction. I sometimes find that the Taycan veers a little too much towards the "super easy to drive fast" end of the spectrum. I don't want to drive fast per se, I want to have fun whilst not driving too fast.
I view this a little differently. The issue isn't one-dimensionality, but rather that technology keeps pushing the "limits" of the cars up to a point where most -- sensibly -- are unwilling to reach.

I think that the "connected" feeling really only comes when you are approaching the limits of the car: anything below is just "work", meaning that shifting, braking, accelerating when you are at 50% of the capacity of the car isn't really connected: it is performing necessary tasks. By contrast, when you are driving a car at its limits, you MUST be engaged fully or you risk crossing over the limit to your detriment. The engagement is keeping the car at the limit. It is much easier to do that with technology that today, is, well, "outdated" like manual transmission, no ABS, turbo lag, because the limit is so much lower and thus you are more likely to be at or near the limit on a day-to-day basis. Fail to heal/toe/throttle blip when downshifting at speed approaching a corner in a manual car without electronic nannies, you will spin if not scare yourself a bit. But with today's cars like the Taycan, the limit is so very, very high because the car is so capable, that it is actually extremely difficult to reach the limit, which I think explains why so many people do not feel engaged. It's not the fault of the car, it is that the car is nearly too good.

I misbehave from now and then under circumstances I believe are safe, and I can assure you that the Taycan, like any other car, is very engaging at the limits. It's just hard to get there unless you go to the track or risk tickets/points/jail.
 

kempez

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I view this a little differently. The issue isn't one-dimensionality, but rather that technology keeps pushing the "limits" of the cars up to a point where most -- sensibly -- are unwilling to reach.

I think that the "connected" feeling really only comes when you are approaching the limits of the car: anything below is just "work", meaning that shifting, braking, accelerating when you are at 50% of the capacity of the car isn't really connected: it is performing necessary tasks. By contrast, when you are driving a car at its limits, you MUST be engaged fully or you risk crossing over the limit to your detriment. The engagement is keeping the car at the limit. It is much easier to do that with technology that today, is, well, "outdated" like manual transmission, no ABS, turbo lag, because the limit is so much lower and thus you are more likely to be at or near the limit on a day-to-day basis. Fail to heal/toe/throttle blip when downshifting at speed approaching a corner in a manual car without electronic nannies, you will spin if not scare yourself a bit. But with today's cars like the Taycan, the limit is so very, very high because the car is so capable, that it is actually extremely difficult to reach the limit, which I think explains why so many people do not feel engaged. It's not the fault of the car, it is that the car is nearly too good.

I misbehave from now and then under circumstances I believe are safe, and I can assure you that the Taycan, like any other car, is very engaging at the limits. It's just hard to get there unless you go to the track or risk tickets/points/jail.
Very well put. On a track and going around corners at speed, there was time for trail-braking and pushing that I’d never try on road I don’t think. The car is so crazily capable that limits are a long way away. I guess that you can have some of the fun on the road pitching the car into corners that a lot of normal cars wouldn’t be able to take at speed, but it’s unlikely to get near the limit.

I have an Up GTI as a fun temporary car and the limits in this are very low in comparison. It’s a good laugh and a great little car. But I do miss something more capable
 

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Very well put. On a track and going around corners at speed, there was time for trail-braking and pushing that I’d never try on road I don’t think. The car is so crazily capable that limits are a long way away. I guess that you can have some of the fun on the road pitching the car into corners that a lot of normal cars wouldn’t be able to take at speed, but it’s unlikely to get near the limit.

I have an Up GTI as a fun temporary car and the limits in this are very low in comparison. It’s a good laugh and a great little car. But I do miss something more capable
By the way, this is also why the innodrive from Porsche and the autopilot from Tesla do not bother me in the least: I would only use them when I am at 50% of the limits of a car and nothing is getting pushed in any way. Under these circumstances, all of the driving is merely "work" in that no real skill is required, so the tech "assist" makes the work easier, which makes driving less tiring, and opens up attention span to pay greater attention to a longer range of vision and thinking, which ultimately is safer. Dolts who use the tech as an excuse to pay less attention are just, well, missing the point. But the tech does not take away from the driving experience, but rather it frees you from the menial and tiring tasks so that you can focus on what really counts -- peripheral vision, focusing on behavior of other drivers, etc . . . Now, when you want to push the car, you go 100% on driver input. It took me a while to realize that this is precisely why Porsche doesn't give warnings when the innodrive is not in control: they assume that the line between sitting back and letting innodrive assist and the driver taking over is much more fluid, and warnings would just distract and annoy under those circumstances. I get this, and once you get over the terror that this induces when you are coming over from Tesla, it makes sense. I just wish they would let the driver choose between fluid "no warnings" and binary on/off warnings.
 

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agree with his comments about the brakes. I have the regular brakes. IMO the worst dynamic feature of the car. Also hate how different they feel when the regen has not warmed up at the start of a drive. Sometimes have a micro panic that the brakes have failed completely.
 
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agree with his comments about the brakes. I have the regular brakes. IMO the worst dynamic feature of the car. Also hate how different they feel when the regen has not warmed up at the start of a drive. Sometimes have a micro panic that the brakes have failed completely.
I am a bit concerned about this. I have heard about this feel issue before from a few but am surprised that more dont provide feedback about this. Hoping it doesnt negatively impact my overall driving experience when it finally arrives.
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