Cross Turismo vs Sport Turismo

[whitex]

Car manufacturers have a road map for each model in their lineup and have a schedule to churn out new variants to stimulate extra or boost existing demand.
...
The underlying issue here (in my view) is supply chain related. Semi-conductor shortages, flooded factories / storage areas where air suspension units were manufactured and stored, COVID staffing issues, production issues, stop sales and so on.

That is what I found confusing, apparently Porsche concluded the demand needed boosting, even though they claim to have more demand than production capacity. Regardless of what is constraining that production capacity, the fact is that it's constrained, so why boost the demand even further above production capacity? The only explanation is that they think demand needs boosting.

Pause a moment and consider other manufacturers - Ferrari for example - wait list can be years during which either a new model or variant has been launched and you may not have received what you had ordered (it will still be delivered).

I sure hope Porsche is not aiming to become a Ferrari sales volumes type product. If you think software is missing features or has weird bugs in a Taycan, check out some of the low volume, high end cars. Check out videos of a Rimac Nevera for example. While it will leave the Taycan in the dust in pretty much any race, its user interface software just looks more like an undergrad project from a local university. Nevera is just not meant to be a daily driver, neither is any Ferrari, while I think the Taycan is.

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[WuffvonTrips]

That is what I found confusing, apparently Porsche concluded the demand needed boosting, even though they claim to have more demand than production capacity. Regardless of what is constraining that production capacity, the fact is that it's constrained, so why boost the demand even further above production capacity? The only explanation is that they think demand needs boosting.

I assume that the strategy is to keep demand well above supply to enable them to sell at higher prices and make greater profit without having to up production numbers. The buyer in turn benefits from higher residual value. This is particularly so for the lower volume variants- Turbos, GTS and GTs. Porsche's production line is geared to produce an astonishing range of different configurations of any particular model variant and, in the case of the Taycan as an EV more so than the ICE models, even the model variants themselves are largely just different configurations of the same vehicle, so I bet that Porsche makes a lot more % profit per unit on the Taycan variants with the rarer badges.

 

[W1NGE]

That is what I found confusing, apparently Porsche concluded the demand needed boosting, even though they claim to have more demand than production capacity. Regardless of what is constraining that production capacity, the fact is that it's constrained, so why boost the demand even further above production capacity? The only explanation is that they think demand needs boosting.


I sure hope Porsche is not aiming to become a Ferrari sales volumes type product. If you think software is missing features or has weird bugs in a Taycan, check out some of the low volume, high end cars. Check out videos of a Rimac Nevera for example. While it will leave the Taycan in the dust in pretty much any race, its user interface software just looks more like an undergrad project from a local university. Nevera is just not meant to be a daily driver, neither is any Ferrari, while I think the Taycan is.

I view it differently - my point was that on the road-map for the Taycan there was to be a GTS within a certain timeframe (it is a mainstream variant rather than a limited edition, many years back it was different). Therefore irrespective of the various challenges out there it would not have prevented the launch (delayed maybe) nor would it have impeded deliveries of other variants in the range.

There is no evidence to support the theory that the introduction of the GTS has impacted the other deliveries - current or future - and is only conjecture at this point. We don't know if the sales of the base Taycan have fallen off in certain regions or indeed if the Turbo S has peaked - there is always a profile in demand for any and all of the models. This coupled with adding additional manufacturing capacity would normally have smoothed things out. Today the reality is a little different and when you have Accountants running car companies they always want to sweat the asset and get that bit more.

Porsche is into volume whether we like it or not (you can thank the success of the Cayenne for that and now VW parentage) and arguably is the only way to survive. I remember 20+ years back that it was somehow special to own a Porsche - few in number and dealers who were human - today there are too many models in my view, dilution of the brand doesn't appear to matter, dealerships are struggling to cope with demand for vehicles they know they don't have (or when they might), service departments are at capacity, drawing hen's teeth is easier than getting a loan car and so on. The only positive I see is that 2nd hand values are rising due to various factors but in Porsches case the lead time to source a new car is forcing people to buy 2nd hand.

There will always be something perceived to be better out there but I tend not to make those comparisons. A Porsche is a Porsche is a Porsche (and all the heritage that goes with it) and well the rest, just aren't.

 

[f1eng]

A Porsche is a Porsche is a Porsche (and all the heritage that goes with it) and well the rest, just aren't.

Except when it is a Cayenne, Macan or Panamera of course

 

[buhhy]

The reason to add a new model is usually to generate more demand. If you are not satisfying current demand, why try to increase it? I'm starting to think the Taycan demand is not as high as Porsche would like everyone to believe, and the wait times are simply the result of extremely limited production. For example, while I've been waiting for a CT Turbo (one of them on this forum), I have only heard of 2 of them in all of the USA. If only a handful was made so far, no wonder the wait lists are full.

I too was waiting for a turbo CT and no one had any allocations for the foreseeable future! Meanwhile, Turbo S, 4s, and 4 CTs allocations were periodically rolling by. I think the theory that they are discontinuing it is believable - there was basically no reason to get the Turbo S with such a small advantage over the Turbo. Instead the GTS replaces the Turbo model (same motor but detuned).

 

[W1NGE]

I too was waiting for a turbo CT and no one had any allocations for the foreseeable future! Meanwhile, Turbo S, 4s, and 4 CTs allocations were periodically rolling by. I think the theory that they are discontinuing it is believable - there was basically no reason to get the Turbo S with such a small advantage over the Turbo. Instead the GTS replaces the Turbo model (same motor but detuned).

Could be - that's what they've done with the new Macan (no Turbo) and GTS is top of the line.

 

[Artman]

Could be - that's what they've done with the new Macan (no Turbo) and GTS is top of the line.

... and then the Macan EV will comes out with a modified body style. It'll be interesting to see the Macan line-up then.

 

[W1NGE]

... and then the Macan EV will comes out with a modified body style. It'll be interesting to see the Macan line-up then.

Not convinced they'll bolt on the Taycan front but I understand that the ICE models will be phased out and timing dependent on when the 'masses' switch from ICE to EV variant (that will be a while given supply issues!).

 

[whitex]

I too was waiting for a turbo CT and no one had any allocations for the foreseeable future! Meanwhile, Turbo S, 4s, and 4 CTs allocations were periodically rolling by. I think the theory that they are discontinuing it is believable - there was basically no reason to get the Turbo S with such a small advantage over the Turbo. Instead the GTS replaces the Turbo model (same motor but detuned).

Perhaps. Porsche is a business and I fully support their right to reprice or discontinue any of their products to maximize profits. If that happens however, I likely will not be getting a Taycan after all. The price already went up by $7,500 thanks to Porsche inability to deliver within 7 months and US federal government deciding to incentivize >$55K ICE cars by removing EV incentives from >$55K EV cars. I am not willing to pay Turbo S price for a Taycan and 4S just not powerful enough when switching out of a Model S (not even Plaid, only Ludicrous).

 

[B61]

Just a question- advertised GTS range is +500km... with the same battery?

 

[W1NGE]

Lucid Air Dream Edition Performance, 1111hp, 520 miles EPA range
Tesla Model S Plaid, 1020hp, 348 miles EPA range


While you can argue about the exact range, I don't think you can argue that Air, Model S, or even EQS doesn't have a significantly greater range than the Taycan, in any environment (as long as comparing the cars in the same environment).

Lucid with never come to UK (thank goodness) and in general the range measurements are just a specific moment and measure in time - I don't think any of us could repeat in real life.

BTW - 340 miles on a Taycan in Florida is not a million miles away from the Tesla Plaid - I know which car I'd rather have.

There is EPA, WLTP and then there is the real world and unfortunately for an EV it matters significantly where in the world you live to obtain these numbers.

I'm assuming also that you are comparing apples with apples and not bananas - do all 3 cars have the same size of battery pack (I suspect not)?

 

[W1NGE]

Just a question- advertised GTS range is +500km... with the same battery?

Same battery, newer WLTP / EPA tests, software tweak - don't get too excited as they'll redo the other ranges (and probably patch existing cars) and if you've been following this thread you'll be aware that without all of that there are huge variances in range for the same car with the same battery around the world (unfortunately) predicated primarily on climate.

 

[B61]

Same battery, newer WLTP / EPA tests, software tweak - don't get too excited as they'll redo the other ranges (and probably patch existing cars) and if you've been following this thread you'll be aware that without all of that there are huge variances in range for the same car with the same battery around the world (unfortunately) predicated primarily on climate.

Understood.
But - let's make a simple math: 500km, 93kw battery = 18.6kw/100 km.
Official (current) numbers for CT4 = 28kw/100km.

?

 

[NYF]

Understood.
But - let's make a simple math: 500km, 93kw batter = 18.6kw/100 km.
Official (current) numbers for CT4 = 28kw/100km.

?

Hmm I'm seeing 22,4 kwh/100 km on porsche website for normal base CT.

According to people who were at the briefing at LA Autoshow, the new range figures will apply to the rest of the range as well (pending config of cause).

 

[W1NGE]

Understood.
But - let's make a simple math: 500km, 93kw batter = 18.6kw/100 km.
Official (current) numbers for CT4 = 28kw/100km.

?

Try again with the useable battery part - and we have no idea what Lucid let's you use so again apples and pears. The battery size is a reported 118kWh - significantly more than that available (currently in any Taycan).

There is no doubt that the stated range has a headline of aspirational proportions but let's just see how it pans out in practice.

I'm sure Porsche / others will come out with monster BHP values in time - but, so what? It is meaningless in the real world not to mention a fools folly.

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