Cross Turismo vs Sport Turismo

[whitex]

That's pretty much it. Slight change in ride height 20-30mm depending on if you have the offroad package on a CT vs the ST,

ST suspension is supposed to have the sedan suspension, so 20mm 28mm lowered as compared to CT. Off road package on a CT does not change the suspension ride height capabilities, it only changes the default ride height (+10mm) settings for things like Normal drive mode. See diagram in this thread here for details.

Its it just me or am I only one totally aghast at the price difference between the CT4S & the GTST = £16,720 !!! WHATTTT??
So, what do we get extra over the CT ?

From what I've read and heard, GTS essentially gets a detuned Turbo drive train (limited to lower top power, though still more than 4S, and tuned a bit differently for more sporty driving characteristics). Of course GTS also has different option packaging and pricing, but that will vary by country.

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[riburn3]

ST suspension is supposed to have the sedan suspension, so 20mm lowered as compared to CT. Off road package on a CT does not change the suspension ride height capabilities, it only changes the default ride height (+10mm) settings for things like Normal drive mode. See diagram in this thread here for details.

Yup, I'm aware. Probably didn't word it as well as I should have, but basically you end up sitting an inch lower on the sedans suspension.

 

[whitex]

There is one thing which I'm wondering. Porsche is already selling every Taycan they can produce (I've been waiting for just an allocation since June, still no word, definitely lost the $7,500 USA incentive too (Go Biden!), so essentially a price hike). Why bother announcing more variants of the Taycan? Pouring gasoline onto existing demand that is already on fire is not always good. For example, all the Porsche did is raise my price budget - making the competition look much more affordable. I am now thinking they are further diluting their production capacity with new models, so seriously looking into what it would take to buy a Model S Plaid and retrofit it with ceramic brakes, better suspension, and a round steering wheel. The last one is surprisingly seems the hardest - if Tesla start offering the round steering wheel before I get my Taycan allocation, I might just pull the trigger - with the brakes and suspension retrofit it will still be same or cheaper than my Taycan build. That, and waiting this long the initial love for the Taycan wears off a bit too as one has to wait for even an ETA, I now am seeing Taycan's shortcomings, like its range (it was great when it came out, but a lot of EV's in the same price range offer almost twice the range nowadays, some almost twice the power to go with the longer range).

 

[f1eng]

There is one thing which I'm wondering. Porsche is already selling every Taycan they can produce (I've been waiting for just an allocation since June, still no word, definitely lost the $7,500 USA incentive too (Go Biden!), so essentially a price hike). Why bother announcing more variants of the Taycan? Pouring gasoline onto existing demand that is already on fire is not always good. For example, all the Porsche did is raise my price budget - making the competition look more more affordable. I am now seriously looking into what it would take to buy a Model S Plaid and retrofit it with ceramic brakes, better suspension, and a round steering wheel. The last one is surprisingly seems the hardest - if Tesla start offering the round steering wheel before I get my Taycan allocation, I might just pull the trigger - with the brakes and suspension retrofit it will still be same or cheaper than my Taycan build. That, and waiting this long the initial love for the Taycan wears off a bit too as one has to wait for even an ETA, I now am seeing Taycan's shortcomings, like its range (it was great when it came out, but a lot of EV's in the same price range offer almost twice the range nowadays, some almost twice the power to go with the longer range).

I also was staggered to see a new variant introduced when they have inadequate capacity to fulfil existing orders.
OTOH range isn't really as big a problem in the UK as publicity would make one think since typical journeys are not that long so that has never been a concern for me and the Taycan still has no competition for my set of requirements so I am being patient waiting for news about when I might get one.

 

[NYF]

There is one thing which I'm wondering. Porsche is already selling every Taycan they can produce (I've been waiting for just an allocation since June, still no word, definitely lost the $7,500 USA incentive too (Go Biden!), so essentially a price hike). Why bother announcing more variants of the Taycan? Pouring gasoline onto existing demand that is already on fire is not always good. For example, all the Porsche did is raise my price budget - making the competition look much more affordable. I am now thinking they are further diluting their production capacity with new models, so seriously looking into what it would take to buy a Model S Plaid and retrofit it with ceramic brakes, better suspension, and a round steering wheel. The last one is surprisingly seems the hardest - if Tesla start offering the round steering wheel before I get my Taycan allocation, I might just pull the trigger - with the brakes and suspension retrofit it will still be same or cheaper than my Taycan build. That, and waiting this long the initial love for the Taycan wears off a bit too as one has to wait for even an ETA, I now am seeing Taycan's shortcomings, like its range (it was great when it came out, but a lot of EV's in the same price range offer almost twice the range nowadays, some almost twice the power to go with the longer range).

Well to be fair. The production/delivery delay is much more pronounced in the US market than in Europe according to my dealer. I ordered late July and my CT is leaving the factory in start Dec. Its actually quicker than the promised delivery date. But I agree with you, that not launching the gts probably wouldnt have affected porsche taycan demand.

 

[W1NGE]

There is one thing which I'm wondering. Porsche is already selling every Taycan they can produce (I've been waiting for just an allocation since June, still no word, definitely lost the $7,500 USA incentive too (Go Biden!), so essentially a price hike). Why bother announcing more variants of the Taycan? Pouring gasoline onto existing demand that is already on fire is not always good. For example, all the Porsche did is raise my price budget - making the competition look much more affordable. I am now thinking they are further diluting their production capacity with new models, so seriously looking into what it would take to buy a Model S Plaid and retrofit it with ceramic brakes, better suspension, and a round steering wheel. The last one is surprisingly seems the hardest - if Tesla start offering the round steering wheel before I get my Taycan allocation, I might just pull the trigger - with the brakes and suspension retrofit it will still be same or cheaper than my Taycan build. That, and waiting this long the initial love for the Taycan wears off a bit too as one has to wait for even an ETA, I now am seeing Taycan's shortcomings, like its range (it was great when it came out, but a lot of EV's in the same price range offer almost twice the range nowadays, some almost twice the power to go with the longer range).

Twice the power and greater range - which cars would they be?

Highly doubtful any of the claims out there are accurate or replicable across the world. We already see huge range differences with the Taycan in warmer parts of US than UK / Europe in general. A forum member in Florida posted his 340 mile range (100%) charge compared to my best (once) of 280 miles. If I got 340 I'd be deliriously happy.

 

[whitex]

Twice the power and greater range - which cars would they be?

Lucid Air Dream Edition Performance, 1111hp, 520 miles EPA range
Tesla Model S Plaid, 1020hp, 348 miles EPA range

Highly doubtful any of the claims out there are accurate or replicable across the world. We already see huge range differences with the Taycan in warmer parts of US than UK / Europe in general. A forum member in Florida posted his 340 mile range (100%) charge compared to my best (once) of 280 miles. If I got 340 I'd be deliriously happy.

While you can argue about the exact range, I don't think you can argue that Air, Model S, or even EQS doesn't have a significantly greater range than the Taycan, in any environment (as long as comparing the cars in the same environment).

 

[whitex]

I agree with you, that not launching the gts probably wouldnt have affected porsche taycan demand.

I would argue that it will further dilute Porsche production capacity, unless the GTS comes out of some brand new, independent factory.

 

[NYF]

I would argue that it will further dilute Porsche production capacity, unless the GTS comes out of some brand new, independent factory.

Hmm yeah maybe you are right.

 

[W1NGE]

I would argue that it will further dilute Porsche production capacity, unless the GTS comes out of some brand new, independent factory.

There is always a GTS model in every Porsche line-up - its what they do. Now, in the case of the Macan, they have dropped the Turbo and the top model for MY22/23 is the GTS (this may percolate across the other models with 'Turbo / Turbo S' as this designation doesn't make a lot of sense particularly on an EV and besides all the ICE cars have one or two turbos.

The factory in Leipzig had a $1bn upgrade a year or so ago to accommodate the Taycan and other offerings. Porsche are into 'mass production' and are only being held back by either COVID and / or supply issues.

Remember that this is a VW brand and VW likes to proliferate as much as they can.

 

[ithinkmac]

Tesla is offering official ceramic brake kit now. $20k I think. don't remember availability date.

-ThinkMac-

There is one thing which I'm wondering. Porsche is already selling every Taycan they can produce (I've been waiting for just an allocation since June, still no word, definitely lost the $7,500 USA incentive too (Go Biden!), so essentially a price hike). Why bother announcing more variants of the Taycan? Pouring gasoline onto existing demand that is already on fire is not always good. For example, all the Porsche did is raise my price budget - making the competition look much more affordable. I am now thinking they are further diluting their production capacity with new models, so seriously looking into what it would take to buy a Model S Plaid and retrofit it with ceramic brakes, better suspension, and a round steering wheel. The last one is surprisingly seems the hardest - if Tesla start offering the round steering wheel before I get my Taycan allocation, I might just pull the trigger - with the brakes and suspension retrofit it will still be same or cheaper than my Taycan build. That, and waiting this long the initial love for the Taycan wears off a bit too as one has to wait for even an ETA, I now am seeing Taycan's shortcomings, like its range (it was great when it came out, but a lot of EV's in the same price range offer almost twice the range nowadays, some almost twice the power to go with the longer range).

 

[Kayone73]

Its it just me or am I only one totally aghast at the price difference between the CT4S & the GTST = £16,720 !!! WHATTTT??
So, what do we get extra over the CT ? Does it get stuff like rear steering included ( nowp ), massage / cooled seats ( nowp ) ....so whats the deal?

I would calm down a bit, first:
1. The Taycan GTS has several performance and luxury options standard and baked into the base price where all those options are a la carte add ons for the Taycan 4S.

2. Also you're making the wrong comparison. The GTS has the same e-motors from the Turbo and Turbo S, but detuned a bit, so it has the higher end hardware. So its' really a detuned and cheaper Turbo, not a more expensive 4S.

 

[whitex]

Tesla is offering official ceramic brake kit now. $20k I think. don't remember availability date.

-ThinkMac-

Ceramic kit will be available mid 2022. The bigger issue for me is the yoke. Brakes and suspension retrofit people have already figured out. Steering wheel retrofit requires hacking the software and disabling all updates, which is problematic in a car like Tesla.

 

[whitex]

There is always a GTS model in every Porsche line-up - its what they do. Now, in the case of the Macan, they have dropped the Turbo and the top model for MY22/23 is the GTS (this may percolate across the other models with 'Turbo / Turbo S' as this designation doesn't make a lot of sense particularly on an EV and besides all the ICE cars have one or two turbos.

The factory in Leipzig had a $1bn upgrade a year or so ago to accommodate the Taycan and other offerings. Porsche are into 'mass production' and are only being held back by either COVID and / or supply issues.

Remember that this is a VW brand and VW likes to proliferate as much as they can.

The reason to add a new model is usually to generate more demand. If you are not satisfying current demand, why try to increase it? I'm starting to think the Taycan demand is not as high as Porsche would like everyone to believe, and the wait times are simply the result of extremely limited production. For example, while I've been waiting for a CT Turbo (one of them on this forum), I have only heard of 2 of them in all of the USA. If only a handful was made so far, no wonder the wait lists are full.

 

[W1NGE]

The reason to add a new model is usually to generate more demand. If you are not satisfying current demand, why try to increase it? I'm starting to think the Taycan demand is not as high as Porsche would like everyone to believe, and the wait times are simply the result of extremely limited production. For example, while I've been waiting for a CT Turbo (one of them on this forum), I have only heard of 2 of them in all of the USA. If only a handful was made so far, no wonder the wait lists are full.

Car manufacturers have a road map for each model in their lineup and have a schedule to churn out new variants to stimulate extra or boost existing demand.

In Porsche's case the GTS used to make an appearance 18 months before the facelift would be due however now it appears much earlier in the model lifecycle to the point (new Macan) it can now appear at launch.

The underlying issue here (in my view) is supply chain related. Semi-conductor shortages, flooded factories / storage areas where air suspension units were manufactured and stored, COVID staffing issues, production issues, stop sales and so on.

Pause a moment and consider other manufacturers - Ferrari for example - wait list can be years during which either a new model or variant has been launched and you may not have received what you had ordered (it will still be delivered).

These guys know what they are doing at the end of the day.

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