Decisions: 2020/21 Turbo S v new GTS

[whitex]

My 2c: go with the CPO '21 1k-miles Turbo S. (1k miles is 0 miles.) The GTS either sounds like a "dealer order", or someone backed out. Either way, if the price is the same, you're paying more for less - before we even start talking about markups.

That'll be $5.

Wow, you have a very healthy profit margin ($4.98 profit on $0.02 worth of advice). No wonder you can afford a Taycan.

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[whitex]

I appreciate your thoughts. Admittedly, I often order water at restaurants because paying $2.95 - $4.25 for iced tea or a soda seems like a rip-off. Stating it simple; despite what wealth I may have, I still make decisions as if I were still a little boy getting $5/week allowance. I'm frugal and do a LOT of stuff that I could easily hire someone else to do. The thing is, when it comes to buying R/E or nice cars, it's a bit like how I eat while on vacation: with reckless abandon to my regular daily values. I figure once I'm blowing $140k it doesn't really matter so long as I'm smiling huge at the end of the day.

As for the BIG power, I tend to drive very gentle and what I'd call range-optimal...I rarely dip into the power but every now and then it's fun to let the big dog eat and then it's worth it to have the huge power. I think the GTS may be a great 'value' and apparently it's the model variant known as the 'sweet spot' within the Porsche line-up. Still, I rather agree with you: the 2021 Turbo S with all those options only has about 1k miles and will have massive power/speed. I may be wrong but when another model passes you and it's a higher model, it rather feels like back in school when someone got a higher score on their test.

I'm not sure whether GTS is the sweet spot. Personally I would put the value point at 4S, but of course that is always a personal opinion. GTS seems to be more about form than function (small power increase, suspension tuning, and a bunch of GTS specific esthetic options). That said, I ordered a Turbo, because I knew I use all the power my current car gives me (on highways, not from stand-still) which is faster than 4S (or GTS), and didn't want a step down. Additionally, a Turbo S is only more powerful than Turbo in Launch Control mode in which I have absolutely no interest, as it only works from a stand-still. For me , a similarly speced Turbo S would cost ~$30K more than the Turbo, but it has nothing I really want while having a couple of options I specifically don't want - ceramic brakes (expensive maintenance and lowered performance when cold) and powered charge port (permanently closes off the air-scarf, making the car less aerodynamic, I know it's no more than 5% range hit, but it triggers my engineer OCD). If I ever see a Turbo S drive by my Turbo, I do not foresee any bad feelings of any kind. Someone in my neighborhood has friends with a sedan Turbo S. I see it driving by my house from time to time, no feeling of jealousy or inadequacy whatsoever - sometimes it makes me a little impatient waiting for my Taycan though (~17 months now).

All that said, if the dealer tries to sneak in charges not in our current agreement, I am willing to walk away on principle. It would bother me each time I drive the car if I felt I got ripped off buying it, which would ruin the experience for me.

 

[WasserGKuehlt]

Wow, you have a very healthy profit margin ($4.98 profit on $0.02 worth of advice). No wonder you can afford a Taycan.

I put _a lot_ of effort into that post - pretty sure I crossed the 1 min mark. And, I might point out, OP hasn't acquiesced to my demand.

 

[Steve R]

Turbo S is a beast, in all honesty too much of a beast for a daily, against the others in the range, that’s it’s only plus, it’s shockingly quick, but so are all the others compared to most ICE and EV’a for that matter

Okay, now THIS is what I wanted to hear and address.....one 2 levels

First, I entirely agree on the speed: compared to most other vehicles (EV or ICE) almost any model of Taycan will be a-plenty! I bought my Jag I-pace not even realizing it had the kind of power & handling that it has, I think the 0-60 is 4.5 but it still pushes you back into the seat and scares/impresses most people.....in all reality, it's plenty of power and I honestly don't really need more! There, I said it! LOL.

I usually drive like a baby, almost like a game, trying to optimize my range and I rarely open-up with the big power.....but when I do it's for that (fairly rare) occasion when I just want to punch it or, my favorite, when I'm inadvertently in or near someone's blind spot and concerned they don't see me and are about to cut me off.....I use the power to almost instantly get in front of them or out of the way and possibly avoid an accident. There's a lot of bad drivers on the road and it's nice to have the power to get around or pass them quickly.

So.....I'm inclined to agree with you; the monster speed of the Turbo S is almost more of a status and somewhat of a novelty that I'd occasionally use. ....this then leads to the next and most concerning subject: does the big power come at a detriment to daily use?????

Now, I'm under the impression (please correct me if I'm wrong!) that the Turbo S is only different in that it has some bigger motors and/or some electronics that allow more power to flow to the motors and as such make it faster....beyond that, it's the same suspension, ride quality and comfort as the 4S or GTS. You elude to this not being the case. In the Ferrari world there's a Challenge Stradale and they say everything is lightened, lots of carbon fiber, loud exhaust and a VERY stiff suspension....it's really made for the track and NOT ideal for anything daily. Are you suggesting the Turbo S is almost along those lines?

What you get in the GTS is quite specific to the GTS, be that handling (suspension setup specially for the GTS) or it’s interior and sports sound, (again specific to the GTS), if a Turbo S passes you, you think OK, sweet bit of kit… if a GTS passes you (and you know your cars) you think there is someone that knows what they’re doing and knows their cars, best handling in the range with performance to match! My GTS ST (again stupidly spec’d) arrives in a few days and to say I can’t wait is an understatement.

Truth is, there is always going to be someone in something faster/quicker/nicer/sleeker AND conversely someone slower/older or not as nice. The moment we start worrying or caring about what other people have or may think, we're in a losing position. Books can be written on this subject but I understand your point: there's still plenty of pride in a GTS and speed is only one quality by which we can judge a vehicle, it's not the pivotal end-all of everything.

I also have a 911 (997) C4 GTS so know what differences the GTS historically has over the others in the range and what that bought to the table back in 2012.

I appreciate your insight and there is some truth to the GTS model being a favorite of collectors and enthusiast!

I'm on my way to the dealer now, I'll be sure to ask them about these details but I well imagine they'll say whatever to entice me to pull the trigger.

 

[WasserGKuehlt]

I'm not sure whether GTS is the sweet spot. Personally I would put the value point at 4S, but of course that is always a personal opinion. GTS seems to be more about form than function (small power increase, suspension tuning, and a bunch of GTS specific esthetic options).

++
On the sport model lines (911, Boxster/Cayman), the GTS was indeed the sweet spot, where you get the sportiest-tuned engine and suspension without AWD on this side of the GT line. With the EVs (and even the trucks) that distinction is really strained and, as you pointed out, more focused on the "sensory experience" - looks, tactile, audio etc. (recall that the GTS Taycan has its own sound "signature").

 

[Codeias]

Okay, now THIS is what I wanted to hear and address.....one 2 levels

First, I entirely agree on the speed: compared to most other vehicles (EV or ICE) almost any model of Taycan will be a-plenty! I bought my Jag I-pace not even realizing it had the kind of power & handling that it has, I think the 0-60 is 4.5 but it still pushes you back into the seat and scares/impresses most people.....in all reality, it's plenty of power and I honestly don't really need more! There, I said it! LOL.

I usually drive like a baby, almost like a game, trying to optimize my range and I rarely open-up with the big power.....but when I do it's for that (fairly rare) occasion when I just want to punch it or, my favorite, when I'm inadvertently in or near someone's blind spot and concerned they don't see me and are about to cut me off.....I use the power to almost instantly get in front of them or out of the way and possibly avoid an accident. There's a lot of bad drivers on the road and it's nice to have the power to get around or pass them quickly.

So.....I'm inclined to agree with you; the monster speed of the Turbo S is almost more of a status and somewhat of a novelty that I'd occasionally use. ....this then leads to the next and most concerning subject: does the big power come at a detriment to daily use?????

Now, I'm under the impression (please correct me if I'm wrong!) that the Turbo S is only different in that it has some bigger motors and/or some electronics that allow more power to flow to the motors and as such make it faster....beyond that, it's the same suspension, ride quality and comfort as the 4S or GTS. You elude to this not being the case. In the Ferrari world there's a Challenge Stradale and they say everything is lightened, lots of carbon fiber, loud exhaust and a VERY stiff suspension....it's really made for the track and NOT ideal for anything daily. Are you suggesting the Turbo S is almost along those lines?




Truth is, there is always going to be someone in something faster/quicker/nicer/sleeker AND conversely someone slower/older or not as nice. The moment we start worrying or caring about what other people have or may think, we're in a losing position. Books can be written on this subject but I understand your point: there's still plenty of pride in a GTS and speed is only one quality by which we can judge a vehicle, it's not the pivotal end-all of everything.



I appreciate your insight and there is some truth to the GTS model being a favorite of collectors and enthusiast!

I'm on my way to the dealer now, I'll be sure to ask them about these details but I well imagine they'll say whatever to entice me to pull the trigger.

If you’re on your way to the dealer, hopefully they’ll be knowledgable enough to run through each model with you. If I remember correctly the turbo and turbo S share the same motors, and now so does the GTS, I guess you could look at it as if they are de-tuned for the turbo and GTS but there is much more to it than that, but simplistically we can look at it like that.

I personally think the Taycan Turbo S has so much power you can never really exploit it, legally or illegally for that matter, but there are plenty of S owners that I’m sure can disagree, for me it was entirely overkill for my daily dutneeds / wants.

As for the GTS, it has suspension setup specifically for that model line up, to quote Porsche… “The adaptive air suspension, including Porsche Active Suspension Management (PASM), is specifically adapted to the GTS, to the benefit of the lateral dynamics. The set-up of the optional rear-axle steering is also even sportier.”

I had the rear axle steering on the 4S and again have it on the GTS, it makes a large old lump feel small at low speed and agile at high speed, I have a track focused R56 BMW Mini running Meth and that has a larger turning circle than the Taycan with rear axle steering.

Whatever you choose, you will be a happy chappie. Good luck.

 

[mystermykee]

Turbo S, or even Turbo.

For those of you shopping for a GTS based on it being the "better value", just stop. Besides coming with some options as standard, what are you paying a premium for? Extra aesthetics?

"No but we also get the GTS tuned suspension!"

All Taycans equipped with air suspension have the same hardware. It takes a tech "x" amount of minutes to code the ECU for a GTS trim. Sooner or later, a third party company or someone really smart (probably a dealer tech who can package software and release instructions to fanatics like us) is going to figure out the suspension ECU and non GTS owners will be able to program that in themselves. Value winner: Porsche

"We also get the same bigger motor as the Turbo and Turbo S!"

What are you happy about, exactly? You have the same rear motor as the Turbo and Turbo S, but make less power. Congratulations, you're paying extra for Porsche to slap a software handicap on you. Value winner: Porsche.

Don't get me wrong, I'd love to have a GTS. But it's not the value buy. Go Turbo/Turbo S.

 

[Archimedes]

OP, do you like alcantara everywhere and extra badges all over your car?

 

[Redhot2474]

I appreciate your thoughts. Admittedly, I often order water at restaurants because paying $2.95 - $4.25 for iced tea or a soda seems like a rip-off. Stating it simple; despite what wealth I may have, I still make decisions as if I were still a little boy getting $5/week allowance. I'm frugal and do a LOT of stuff that I could easily hire someone else to do. The thing is, when it comes to buying R/E or nice cars, it's a bit like how I eat while on vacation: with reckless abandon to my regular daily values. I figure once I'm blowing $140k it doesn't really matter so long as I'm smiling huge at the end of the day.

As for the BIG power, I tend to drive very gentle and what I'd call range-optimal...I rarely dip into the power but every now and then it's fun to let the big dog eat and then it's worth it to have the huge power. I think the GTS may be a great 'value' and apparently it's the model variant known as the 'sweet spot' within the Porsche line-up. Still, I rather agree with you: the 2021 Turbo S with all those options only has about 1k miles and will have massive power/speed. I may be wrong but when another model passes you and it's a higher model, it rather feels like back in school when someone got a higher score on their test.

Your example is very contradictory. I would take GTS only at MSRP. I can afford to blow $ but won’t based on principle. To me , it would come down to options, color and if I can get the GTS at sticker. Performance in a straight line obviously goes to Turbo S, handling would go GTS as it’s “tuned” for track performance/handling. I’ve always loved GTS’s(lipstick on a pig or not), just “something” unique/special about one…plus , it’s NEW! (If you go with turbo , make sure they certify, if not …choice gets easier if you can get GTS at sticker and it’s optioned the way you want

 

[Steve R]

Your example is very contradictory. I would take GTS only at MSRP. I can afford to blow $ but won’t based on principle. To me , it would come down to options, color and if I can get the GTS at sticker. Performance in a straight line obviously goes to Turbo S, handling would go GTS as it’s “tuned” for track performance/handling. I’ve always loved GTS’s(lipstick on a pig or not), just “something” unique/special about one…plus , it’s NEW! (If you go with turbo , make sure they certify, if not …choice gets easier if you can get GTS at sticker and it’s optioned the way you want

The GTS arriving in December will be black/black but beyond that there are no details. Which options it'll have, which features I'd like (which features I don't care for)....it'll all be luck of the draw. Also, they have openly told me they will be getting MSRP + $10k so I'm fairly certain that'll put me at $175k.

Also, as far as handling, I have no plans to be taking this to 'the track' and the salesman today told me the GTS is built on the base/4S platform and that the Turbo S will blatantly out-perform it in both power and handling. Course, he's a salesman.

I went by the dealership today and test-drove a Taycan 4S, both freeway and street for a 5-mile loop. The car was white, I don't recall the mileage or year but it was $119k. I opened it up a few times and felt I got the flavor of the vehicle. I then test drove the Turbo S on the same loop. From what I read here, I was expecting a rigid track-car that would not be suited for daily driving. Frankly, nothing could be further from the truth......the Turbo S was as docile and comfortable as the 4S and about the only difference was when you floored the peddle. Technically, on paper, the Turbo S is a LOT faster than the 4S....but in reality, it seemed only a fair amount faster. Both cars handled like a 2,300-pound nimble power-cart.

The price was $179k and the car has an extended 7-year warranty and, besides being flawless, it only has about 870 miles....not a flaw can be found on it. Yeah, I gave them a deposit, I'm going Turbo S

 

[Steve R]

Turbo S, or even Turbo.

For those of you shopping for a GTS based on it being the "better value", just stop. Besides coming with some options as standard, what are you paying a premium for? Extra aesthetics?

"No but we also get the GTS tuned suspension!"

All Taycans equipped with air suspension have the same hardware. It takes a tech "x" amount of minutes to code the ECU for a GTS trim. Sooner or later, a third party company or someone really smart (probably a dealer tech who can package software and release instructions to fanatics like us) is going to figure out the suspension ECU and non GTS owners will be able to program that in themselves. Value winner: Porsche

"We also get the same bigger motor as the Turbo and Turbo S!"

What are you happy about, exactly? You have the same rear motor as the Turbo and Turbo S, but make less power. Congratulations, you're paying extra for Porsche to slap a software handicap on you. Value winner: Porsche.

Don't get me wrong, I'd love to have a GTS. But it's not the value buy. Go Turbo/Turbo S.

WORD! and be careful with spewing reason, logic and truth....few can handle it UNLESS they have a specifically tuned psychologically adjusted attitude! : P

I'll ask you to scroll down to review my fun at the dealer today, I think you'll be happy with my decision

 

[Steve R]

Hey guys, it's been a while since I was active on a forum so I'm a bit rusty with how the forum displays. As you can see, I posted a pic from today, here's the full set.

Today was the first time I saw a Taycan up-close and I have to say, with no exaggeration..... I actually had my breath taken away! I've seen these things on YouTube reviews and on the Porsche website but to say 'you have to see one in person' is an actual understatement. This is a Super Car, it had that special presence that comes from (I don't know what or where it comes from) but it had it!

I knew right there and then that I wanted it. I don't know which movie it was from but the phrase "Oh yes, it must be mine" came to mind. Let me re-post what I responded with above (for those who may not have read it):

I went by the dealership today and test-drove a Taycan 4S, both freeway and street for a 5-mile loop. The car was white, I don't recall the mileage or year but it was $119k. I opened it up a few times and felt I got the flavor of the vehicle. I then test drove the Turbo S on the same loop. From what I read here, I was expecting a rigid track-car that would not be suited for daily driving. Frankly, nothing could be further from the truth......the Turbo S was as docile and comfortable as the 4S and about the only difference was when you floored the peddle. Technically, on paper, the Turbo S is a LOT faster than the 4S....but in reality, it seemed only a fair amount faster. Both cars handled like a 2,300-pound nimble power-cart.

The price was $179k and the car has an extended 7-year warranty and, besides being flawless, it only has about 870 miles....not a flaw can be found on it. Yeah, I gave them a deposit, I'm going Turbo S and planning to pick it up tomorrow.

Now, I'm going to share something that may not be popular....you may want to tune-out if you can't stand to hear anything disparaging about the Taycan......

Still here? Okay, I'm sure we're all sick of hearing about how my Jaguar I-pace got me hooked on EV and how I love the car so much. My ONLY gripe with the Jag (besides that my wife keeps stealing it) is that it's a crossover and more of a sedan. Granted, a very sporty sedan but I'd prefer something more committed towards being a sports car. Frankly, I wish the Taycan came as a 2-door but at least they dropped this thing down to the ground and did everything they could to make it visually bad ass. I mean, just look at that picture!!!!!!

So that said, I'm buying this car for ONE reason: it looks amazing!!!!!!! That's it. Absolutely not a fan of the interior. Having to insert 2 fingers into the door latch to open it, the small clicky buttons for the windows, the goofy tongue to select Drive, Reverse or Neutral, the relatively flat display across the front, the simple cluster for the gauges in front of the steering wheel...and the old-school analog clock protruding out of the center of the dash. Honestly, if I could have the Jag's interior in this car, I'd pay $8k for that as an upgrade! I'm sorry, it's not impressive, intuitive or practical and I believe it's entirely because the designers desperately want to pay homage and maintain a lineage to the 911. Even the power switch hidden behind the steering wheel on the left side....wtf is up with that? And getting in & out is even more difficult than my Ferrari, the door is so narrow....but once inside you do feel encapsulated like a jet fighter.

I'm honestly hoping I can get used to it and perhaps grow to like it. I kept telling myself that it just feels foreign because I'm used to the Jag. Yeah, it's faster but it only feels 15-20% faster and it has that 2-stage rear-end gear change which seems odd. And yes, I know why it's there. I think the designers blew it when they didn't go with one-pedal operation: I prefer to focus entirely on pushing the car to the brink of traction threshold and not have to use my right foot to go back and forth from accelerator to brake....being able to modulate power/braking with one foot is freakin' brilliant and the future...trying to emulate the old 911 and traditional ICE is archaic. I'm sorry but there's just something odd about the interior, it will be a downgrade from the Jag but it's what I'm willing to deal with to have that amazing exterior.

I apologize if these opinions seem disparaging, I'm not here to troll the Taycan and I did put my deposit down to join your driving ranks. I really hope the interior will grow on me.

 

[Steve R]

Is it wrong or weird that I just spent 10 minutes staring at the picture?

 

[Valen]

No it is not and you should get used to it

Welcome to the club

 

[whitex]

The GTS arriving in December will be black/black but beyond that there are no details. Which options it'll have, which features I'd like (which features I don't care for)....it'll all be luck of the draw.

They obviously know the build spec (since they know the price), at the very least can pull it up, so there must be a reason they will not tell you, while pressuring you to put your name on it. Warning flags would go off for me. Personally, I would never buy a "surprise Taycan" knowing nothing but color and trim.

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