Don Breaks His Taycan - The Saga of the 12v Battery

[louv]

Not cool!!!

Don: I thought this was just when you were using your Chargepoint charger. Not true?

Chuck J

"My problem" can happen with any Level 2 charger. I think. But for that to happen, (again, assuming I know what I'm talking about) they would have had to have had it plugged in charging, and then somehow used the App to wake the car up and it didn't go back to sleep. Repeatedly... to eventually damage the 12v battery so it won't hold a charge. From what I think I know about "my" bug, it seems unlikely this is the same root cause.

This kinda sounds to me like just a dead 12v battery.

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[GDHazy]

It's not crazy. They obviously can't deliver a vehicle to a customer if they can't get a warning message to go away.

I'll wager it is no more than a week delay (assuming the 12v battery is dead).

Of course, it might be a different problem.

They have a new battery coming in next week to change. Fingers crossed this sorts it out !

 

[Gogs]

It's not crazy. They obviously can't deliver a vehicle to a customer if they can't get a warning message to go away.

I'll wager it is no more than a week delay (assuming the 12v battery is dead).

Of course, it might be a different problem.

Anything more tgan a few days is unacceptable and that’s why it is crazy. The feeling I have is these PC’s have not been trained properly and that’s why someone would quote that timeframe.

 

[louv]

Anything more tgan a few days is unacceptable and that’s why it is crazy. The feeling I have is these PC’s have not been trained properly and that’s why someone would quote that timeframe.

Sure, but of the dealerships I've visited (six or seven?), most had only one Taycan-trained technician. One dealership hadn't ever seen a Taycan before I drove up. It's early. This is a new world. There will be delays as they stumble around in the dark. Being an Early Adopter can be painful sometimes.

 

[snstevens]

I don’t know the root cause of the bug. I’ve been hesitant to post my opinion because it might be wrong, and I don’t want to spread disinformation.

But.., it’s now been six weeks, and Porsche USA doesn’t communicate directly with me, only through my dealership... so it feels like playing telephone.

Here’s what I THINK is happening:
-Plug in to AC charge (Level 2)
-While it’s plugged in, and waiting for charging to occur (due to Profile & Timers) the user connects via the Smartphone App and changes a Timer or Profile. This “wakes up” some systems in the car.
-For some reason the car does not go back into a Sleep state, causing a high draw on the 12v system.
-The DC-DC 800v to 12v converter is not on, so the 12v battery is drawn down to the point where it is dead.
-The last thing the car does is set off a Tampering Alarm (As if someone disconnected the 12v). At this point, Porsche Connect calls me on the cell phone.

How To Avoid This Bug:
-Do not change Timer or Profile settings vis your smartphone while the car is plugged in waiting for a charge (or is still plugged in after taking a charge).
Or...
-Only use the Direct Charging mode, allowing the car to go to 100% SoC (or wherever it gets when you physically unplug the car). Still, Don’t change settings via the smartphone App.

Note: None of this applies to DC Fast charging (because that’s always “Direct Charging” and will charge until full)

@louv Quick Question - When you access the car via Porsche Connect do you Logout at the end of your session or stay logged in? Also, is your access through the Connect App or via a browser?

I'd be curious to know if the problem is still present if you log out of all Porsche Connect apps. It may be that the app(s) is contacting the PCM system in the car periodically, keeping the system awake.

 

[louv]

@louv Quick Question - When you access the car via Porsche Connect do you Logout at the end of your session or stay logged in? Also, is your access through the Connect App or via a browser?

I'd be curious to know if the problem is still present if you log out of all Porsche Connect apps. It may be that the app(s) is contacting the PCM system in the car periodically, keeping the system awake.

That’s an interesting possibility. I never logout.

 

[ron_b]

That’s an interesting possibility. I never logout.

I would be surprised if that helped, I would imagine that the logout feature would just be a phone local action as to whether the cookies are kept to avoid a credential validation with the Porsche authentication servers.

But, I guess anything is worth a try. Especially if you are good at catching the failure happening without actually waiting for the battery to die, can you maybe keep a DVM attached to the 12 volt supply outside the car or visible from a window? So when you see the 12 volt supply dropping abnormally you can abort the mission and save the astronaut a more complex recovery.

 

[louv]

I would be surprised if that helped, I would imagine that the logout feature would just be a phone local action as to whether the cookies are kept to avoid a credential validation with the Porsche authentication servers.

But, I guess anything is worth a try. Especially if you are good at catching the failure happening without actually waiting for the battery to die, can you maybe keep a DVM attached to the 12 volt supply outside the car or visible from a window? So when you see the 12 volt supply dropping abnormally you can abort the mission and save the astronaut a more complex recovery.

I do actually have a Bluetooth voltage Datalogger attached. But it won’t warn me of low voltage because I’m generally out of BT range.

 

[ron_b]

I do actually have a Bluetooth voltage Datalogger attached. But it won’t warn me of low voltage because I’m generally out of BT range.

Oh that is very cool, but I thought you had a fairly good feel for how to trigger this problem so I thought with just going out and checking it an hour or 2 or 4 after you think you have triggered it you would easily see the voltage drop by 0.2 and be suspicious.

 

[louv]

Oh that is very cool, but I thought you had a fairly good feel for how to trigger this problem so I thought with just going out and checking it an hour or 2 or 4 after you think you have triggered it you would easily see the voltage drop by 0.2 and be suspicious.

Given Porsche’s lack of communication, I’m kinda done doing their testing for them. I’m waiting for a solution like the rest of you.

 

[glennkreisel]

Given Porsche’s lack of communication, I’m kinda done doing their testing for them. I’m waiting for a solution like the rest of you.

I’ve tried escalating to pcna head support person Yannick. I will follow up. And if no response soon I’ll connect w Zellmer. This Is extremely critical.

 

[evanevery]

Lots of good information here (about a bad situation). My car should be arriving in about a month so I'm working through various threads to get as much knowledge about stuff as possible.

I want to chime in regarding the perception that this issue might be due to a particular charging system (Chargepoint)...

It should make absolutely no difference which charger you use with your EV. That's like saying you should only buy gas for your Porsche at a Porsche gas station. The whole point of EV charging is that you SHOULD be able to use any mfr's charger. Otherwise, what's the point? Proprietary charging solutions solve no one's problems (except perhaps Tesla).

Anyway, and additionally, lots of bad things can happen during the process of a charging session. Power can drop, brown out, or be interrupted. If the vehicle has not been designed to basically accept/mitigate any of these issues then we truly have a problem. The vehicle needs to be smart enough to disconnect/mitigate any substandard charging condition as required to protect the vehicle. Even a poor quality charger or connection needs to be properly handled by the vehicle.

If our vehicles are not properly dealing with potentially substandard charging issues (even to the point of simple rejection), then that is on Porsche. Even ***IF*** this was an issue with a faulty, mis-designed, or substandard Chargepoint home charger, the vehicle needs to be able to deal with this (even if its simply to reject the connection).

This is on Porsche.

It does sound like it might be a software issue which involves some sort of Porsche Connect reconfiguration during the charging process.

In the meantime, I'll keep my BMW M4 LiPo charger handy and add a pigtail to the battery if the problem ever pops up on my Taycan...

 

[louv]

...
I want to chime in regarding the perception that this issue might be due to a particular charging system (Chargepoint)...

It should make absolutely no difference which charger you use with your EV. ...

Let me be clear, I do not believe the charging station is at fault. I have reproduced it with the Porsche Charging Station as well. And my local dealership did as well.

ChargePoint has stepped up and is tracking the issue directly with Porsche, but that’s just to be absolutely sure.

Of course, until Porsche tells us what is going on, we don’t know.

 

[evanevery]

Let me be clear, I do not believe the charging station is at fault. I have reproduced it with the Porsche Charging Station as well. And my local dealership did as well.

ChargePoint has stepped up and is tracking the issue directly with Porsche, but that’s just to be absolutely sure.

Of course, until Porsche tells us what is going on, we don’t know.

I didn't mean to imply that YOU were indicating that. I think you have been very clear, balanced, and precise in your reports and diagnostics! (Thanks for ALL your information and hard work. Loved the Road trip. Read EVERY posting...)

Several folks in this thread were suggesting to "just use" the Porsche charger, or "why not use" the Porsche charger. Beyond the diagnostic benefits of testing these chargers in this specific problem, I think we need to get past this false perspective...

As a long term multibrand EV user (also inc an i8), one of the reoccurring perspectives which has come to "bristle my sensibilities", is the thought that you need (or its better) to use a particular mfr's charger with a particular mfr's car. People ask this all the time and people suggest this all the time. Thats like suggesting you need to buy your gasoline from Porsche. Its completely wrong and its not particularly helpful to the EV community moving forward. We need to get past that...

$0.02

 

[KerbMonster]

Agreed - it’s somehow as if the electricity is better over one brands charger!
The standards are exactly that - standard.
Some chargers have additional management features but aside from that should be a muchness.

Now yes, some are a bit fussier and will trip a charging a sessions more than others but that’s different

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