Electrify America 101 and Range Lessons learned on first road trip

[Tandrup]

So I drove to an EA station, plugged in my car and it started to charge at around 61 kwh. There were 6 Teslas, a Mustang and one Polestar also charging at the station. I would have expected the charging to be at the 250 kwh rate touted by EA, but I assume the rate was limited by the number of cars charging at the same time. Bottom line: EA just worked. I didn't need to do anything special.

Good to hear a positive “EA-just-worked” story!!!

Another big factor in the increased efficiency in “stop and go traffic” is that you’re driving at lower speeds. So you’re covering distance with very minimal air resistance (as we’ve discussed after Toms original post, speed really drives up consumption). In slow traffic, we see the benefits of slow speed (and an EV doesn’t have an idling ICE running the whole time).

With regards to your charging: sorry - pet peeve of mine:
Power is measured in kW. You were charging at 61 kW, not kWh.
Energy is measured in kWh.
Your charging power was probably not limited by the other cars there - more likely by your SoC and your battery temperature. See this chart:

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[daveo4EV]

In my experience driving in traffic, electric cars do BETTER (have longer range) than anticipated due to the slower speeds and regenerative braking. Stop and go traffic allows the EV to add power back to the battery when braking, though this is not 100% efficient as there are some loses.

As an example, yesterday I made an 80 mile trip to NYC. Initially the range indicator in the Taycan NAV system showed returning with 12% battery SOC. About 1/2 the trip was in stop and go traffic. I returned home with 19%. I have been driving EVs for 5+ years and this is typical: stop and go traffic tend to give better range than anticipated.

BTW: before leaving for the trip I wanted to try Electrify America charging. I normally charge at home but I wanted to make sure EA charging worked. So I drove to an EA station, plugged in my car and it started to charge at around 61 kwh. There were 6 Teslas, a Mustang and one Polestar also charging at the station. I would have expected the charging to be at the 250 kwh rate touted by EA, but I assume the rate was limited by the number of cars charging at the same time. Bottom line: EA just worked. I didn't need to do anything special.

An aside: the EA cable is HUGE. I know the Tesla charging cable is not too much larger than a home dryer cable, but the EA cable was much thicker. It took a bit of heft to get it plugged in.

how were the 6 Tesla’s charging at EA? I’m unclear about the TEsla CCS adapter (being sold in Korea) and normally EA only has one Chademo (for which there is a Tesla Adapter)

is there a supercharger at the same site?

 

[Windpower]

Power is measured in kW. You were charging at 61 kW, not kWh.

As an electrical engineer, I guess I should know better. I’m more used to dealing in micro amps than amps.

Regarding charging rate, is this graph from Porsche or EA? I didn’t preheat but the ambient temperature was around 50 degrees F. From your chart above it looks like 50 kw should have been applied to the car. Yet I saw 61+ kw for the charge session.

 

[Windpower]

how were the 6 Tesla’s charging at EA?

The station has 10 Tesla chargers next to 10 EA chargers. I’ve used the Tesla chargers in the past for my model Y.

 

[Tandrup]

As an electrical engineer, I guess I should know better. I’m more used to dealing in micro amps than amps.

Regarding charging rate, is this graph from Porsche or EA? I didn’t preheat but the ambient temperature was around 50 degrees F. From your chart above it looks like 50 kw should have been applied to the car. Yet I saw 61+ kw for the charge session.

It’s from another member - posted in the charging and battery section of the forum:

https://www.taycanforum.com/forum/t...my-taycan-charge-as-fast-as-i-want-it-to.779/

 

[thecoloradokid]

The feeling I get when reading this thread since it has been rehashed beyond repeatedly.

 

[tomdfw1]

In my experience driving in traffic, electric cars do BETTER (have longer range) than anticipated due to the slower speeds and regenerative braking. Stop and go traffic allows the EV to add power back to the battery when braking, though this is not 100% efficient as there are some loses.

As an example, yesterday I made an 80 mile trip to NYC. Initially the range indicator in the Taycan NAV system showed returning with 12% battery SOC. About 1/2 the trip was in stop and go traffic. I returned home with 19%. I have been driving EVs for 5+ years and this is typical: stop and go traffic tend to give better range than anticipated.

BTW: before leaving for the trip I wanted to try Electrify America charging. I normally charge at home but I wanted to make sure EA charging worked. So I drove to an EA station, plugged in my car and it started to charge at around 61 kwh. There were 6 Teslas, a Mustang and one Polestar also charging at the station. I would have expected the charging to be at the 250 kwh rate touted by EA, but I assume the rate was limited by the number of cars charging at the same time. Bottom line: EA just worked. I didn't need to do anything special.

An aside: the EA cable is HUGE. I know the Tesla charging cable is not too much larger than a home dryer cable, but the EA cable was much thicker. It took a bit of heft to get it plugged in.

I was told by my Porsche dealer that the 350kW cables must be larger as they are actually oil cooled. Apparently the massive transfer of power heats those cables up a lot.

 

[tomdfw1]

Good to hear a positive “EA-just-worked” story!!!

Another big factor in the increased efficiency in “stop and go traffic” is that you’re driving at lower speeds. So you’re covering distance with very minimal air resistance (as we’ve discussed after Toms original post, speed really drives up consumption). In slow traffic, we see the benefits of slow speed (and an EV doesn’t have an idling ICE running the whole time).

With regards to your charging: sorry - pet peeve of mine:
Power is measured in kW. You were charging at 61 kW, not kWh.
Energy is measured in kWh.
Your charging power was probably not limited by the other cars there - more likely by your SoC and your battery temperature. See this chart:

Wow...had no idea temperature affected charging speeds so much. I will certainly remember the preheat capability next time I charge at EA.

One other reason he got low kW could be how "full" his battery was. The speed really slows down once the battery gets above 80%. I saw a video of someone likening this to pouring water into a glass from a pitcher...you pour fast until the glass is almost full...then you slow down so you don't go over. I am sure there is no relativity to this analogy except to visualize/remember it.

 

[Windpower]

One other reason he got low kW could be how "full" his battery was.

I think I started at about 25%. I only charged to 50% at the EA station. Drove around 80 miles and had 19% before charging again last night at home.

 

[JimBob]

Jim, I’ll be be honest. I don’t understand your confusion here. I spelled it out fairly plainly in my initial comment. Not to be mean. It was just that what you said was plainly wrong. Please also correct me should I do the same.

But I’ll try again.

You said:


That is not a true statement. You can run a current below the the rating of a circuit breaker and still trip the breaker. Breakers can have trip curves that dip below rated amps given enough time. So, the statement is false. It is not true that if you keep the current below the rated current, you will not trip a breaker.

FWIW, OP asked me the same question yesterday. Here was my response:

https://www.taycanforum.com/forum/threads/mobile-charger-settings-on-120v.8329/#post-119308



And ….

Someone could have purchased a house or have a rental with an existing 10A breaker on a receptacle. It doesn’t have to be someone installing a 10A breaker for a receptacle intended for an EVSE. It has to do with removing ignorance and being aware of the circuit in use and what’s acceptable.

Been busy. Won't flog this dead horse. We actually do not differ.

Taking the 15 amp circuit which the OP apparently has. It is rated for continuous amperage at 80% of the circuit rating of 15 amps. It should also be able to run the full 15 amps for around 3 hours before tripping. But that is not a hard and fast rule. Can you trip it at a lower rating? Yes, under some circumstances which have caused a heat build up. I indicated that could be because of high temps or a panel running near capacity. If it trips frequently than there is something else happening including a faulty breaker. I think we both know how to figure out what that problem is.

Yes, someone could have bought a house with a 10 amp circuit. Somewhat rare but not impossible. I have done some renos of older houses and have never seen a 10 amp circuit. But that is not proof they don't exist.

And your question of using a 240 volt circuit probably was probably one of the first things that should have been asked.

And for completeness, because it is more likely to happen than finding a 10 amp circuit, you could also ask about 3 phase power and what happens if you plug into a circuit with 2 phases but 120 degrees out of phase.

 

[Jhenson29]

We actually do not differ.

Yes. We do. But you don’t seem to get it, so I’ll just move on…

And for completeness, because it is more likely to happen than finding a 10 amp circuit, you could also ask about 3 phase power and what happens if you plug into a circuit with 2 phases but 120 degrees out of phase.

OP was taking about a 5-15R. There’s only one phase. There’s nothing to be 120 degrees apart from. There’s just two wires and single potential difference between those wires.

 

[John89]

I could NEVER make that trip without one charge somewhere before destination. If it was summer I would have about 190 miles of range MAX at highway speeds - maybe less(@100% charge). If it was winter, It would be about 160 miles (@100% charge). If I baby the car around in summer I have seen 242 miles MAX - one time.

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