Factual Report: just data - 11 kW charge rate

daveo4EV

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just picked up my car from Porsche Service - pano roof replacement + software updates + clear side markers…

I can report the car still charges at 11 kw charge rate - I was 5% concerned Porsche might nerf the charge rate to make the 9.6 kw maximum rate in the US specification, but not so far. Car is charging now off my Tesla Wall charger (80 amps) at a full 48 amps (11 kW) - car reports on lower center screen 10.86 kW charge rate.

again I don’t consider this ground breaking, but it’s a factual report.

Service Manager (great guy) was confused - his training indicates car has 11 kW charger on board - doesn’t undesrtand why US specifications page documents 9.6 kW - he was very confused by the discrepancy and was going to check in to it. Understand my concern Porsche might ‘nerf’ it in the future via software, but didn’t feel it was likely.

so I can confirm we’ve retained the 48 amp charge rate post software update for the current round!





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Toby Pennycuff

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Excellent news! My HCS-60 is awaiting shipment as I type!
 

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I can report the car still charges at 11 kw charge rate...
Could the car even charge at higher rate, i.e. 22kW with the right charger?

1598660642813.png


What charger did you get with your Taycan? I did not get a charger at all, but then a week later via Shanghai I got this 22kW Porsche Mobile Charger. But my purchase car specification only states 11kW...
 

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No, the max rate of charge on AC is 11KW currently, this is restricted by the fact that the car is fitted with a 11KW AC convertor to DC. I have the PMCC connected to 3 64AMp supplies, the charger says output of 22KW, so future proofed for when there is a upgrade (unlikely) or I get a new one in a few years time.
 

Schlossj

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just picked up my car from Porsche Service - pano roof replacement + software updates + clear side markers…

I can report the car still charges at 11 kw charge rate - I was 5% concerned Porsche might nerf the charge rate to make the 9.6 kw maximum rate in the US specification, but not so far. Car is charging now off my Tesla Wall charger (80 amps) at a full 48 amps (11 kW) - car reports on lower center screen 10.86 kW charge rate.

again I don’t consider this ground breaking, but it’s a factual report.

Service Manager (great guy) was confused - his training indicates car has 11 kW charger on board - doesn’t undesrtand why US specifications page documents 9.6 kW - he was very confused by the discrepancy and was going to check in to it. Understand my concern Porsche might ‘nerf’ it in the future via software, but didn’t feel it was likely.

so I can confirm we’ve retained the 48 amp charge rate post software update for the current round!
I’ve read so many things my head hurts. So @daveo4EV - seems you have a lot of knowledge here. I’m having a 14-50 receptacle installed to a new 50a circuit. I think that’s the standard move. I purchased the PMCC but I’m reading it’s only going to handle a max of 32a producing far less than the 11kW charge rate. Is that correct? And if so, do I buy something else for my garage wall charger needs and use the PMCC as my mobile? Is the PMCC as good as the Tesla Gen2 mobile charger? I guess my simple question is what’s the ideal set up in the garage and when mobile? Thanks!
 

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I’ve read so many things my head hurts. So @daveo4EV - seems you have a lot of knowledge here. I’m having a 14-50 receptacle installed to a new 50a circuit. I think that’s the standard move. I purchased the PMCC but I’m reading it’s only going to handle a max of 32a producing far less than the 11kW charge rate. Is that correct? And if so, do I buy something else for my garage wall charger needs and use the PMCC as my mobile? Is the PMCC as good as the Tesla Gen2 mobile charger? I guess my simple question is what’s the ideal set up in the garage and when mobile? Thanks!
You can get 40A from your 14-50 outlet, and that’s the max allowed by code. That’s 9.6kW, which is plenty. You can’t get 11kW from any charger that plugs in, as a 50A circuit is the max (which is 40A continuous). The 60A chargers in the US are hard wired. In the UK and Europe they have 3-phase 240V available so they can get higher AC charging power.
 
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@Schlossj I'll attempt to answer your question…

I'm going to break my answer into 3 sections
  1. Whats the Deal with the PMCC?
  2. What's the Deal with 11 kW charging vs. 9.6 kW charging
  3. Why are we making this so complicated?
What's the Deal with the PMCC?
  1. the PMCC that is delivered/forced with a US purchase is capable of charging at a maximum of 40 amps - or 9.6 kiloWatts (9,600 watts or 9.6 kW)
  2. Achieving the full charge rate of the North American PMCC @ 40 amps requiresa 50 amp 240 volt residential circuit be installed where you plan to charge the vehicle (breaker and appropriate gauge wire installed by your electrician as specified by local building codes)
    1. this is true for _ANY_ EV charging install and any EV charger
  3. charging @ 40 amps with the PMCC requires one of two types of "PMCC supply cable" that is provided with the charger - a NEMA 14-50 plug type or NEMA 6-50 plug type - these are provided at $0 cost along with your PMCC order with your vehicle - consult your dealer
    1. you as the customer need to make a choice here and what ever type you choose you'll need to have the same plug type installed in your garage by your electrician
      1. the two plugs are electrically identical so the choice does not matter from a purely functional point of view - both function identically.
    2. NEMA 14-50 is the default PMCC supply cable provided if you do no specify on your order - if you do nothing or did not specify a PMCC supply cable type you will/should receive a NEMA 14-50 supply cable for your PMCC.
    3. NEMA 14-50 is however the "best" type to have when away from home since _IF_ you run into a 240 volt plug while traveling NEMA 14-50 are the most common since it is the type of plug used for Recreational Vehicles/Motorshomes as their electrical hook when in an RV park - you are more likely to run into a 14-50 plug than a 6-50 plug when away from home - there are simply more of them installed across North America.
  4. the PMCC Supply cable that Porsche is currently shipping with the PMCC is the minimum electrical specification for wire gauge necessary for 40 amps/240 volts/9.6 kW - I have 100% confidence it is electrically safe but it does/will get uncomfortably hot to handle during a charging session - this particular gauge of wire was a poor choice on Porsche's part for a device that is "mobile" and therefore expected to be handled in normal use - but again the cable rating and wire gauge is safe for it's intended use from a melting/electrical perspective, there is no issue from an electrical point of view.
    1. the uncomfortable temperatures are not actually a problem unless you plan to handle the cable shortly after a charging sessions - not a common scenario in my opinion.
      1. if you never touch the PMCC to unplug shortly after a charging session you will never notice this problem.
    2. via on-screen software controls on the PMCC you can override the 40 amp setting and set the charge rate anywhere from 6 to 40 amps
    3. setting a lower charge rate accumulates less heat in the cable which makes it's easier to handle shortly after a charging session and may make you less nervous about the cable's temperatures.
    4. so this is really only an issue if you intend to use the PMCC with a NEMA 14-50/6-50 plug and handle the charger (take it off the wall) shortly after a charging session. If that is case I recommend a towel/cloth if you intend to handle the NEMA 14-50 plug shortly after a charging session
      1. not common for a home charging scenario - i.e. almost never
      2. very common while traveling out on the road - so perhaps a poor choice as a mobile charger
    5. Porsche's only official response is documented here: https://www.taycanforum.com/forum/threads/nema-14-50-supply-cable-heat-data.1940/page-8- post #111
      1. @daveo4EV opinion: the NEMA 14-50/6-50 PMCC supply cables as provided by Porsche are electrically safe (no data has been presented disputing this)- but will achieve temperatures that are surprisingly uncomfortable for humans to handle - Porsche has made a poor choice here but not an unsafe choice -and it's ONLY an issue if you intend to handle the charger often shortly after a charging session. This is not the normal use case for an EV charger and normally you just setup it up an never touch it again.
      2. _IF_ the supply cables achieving hot to the touch temperatures during a charging session is unacceptable to you personally - you have two choices:
        1. Dial down the AMP's via the PMCC controls on the PMCC screen - 30-34 amps seems to work well and the cable runs much cooler to the touch
        2. purchase and install a different EV Charger (EVSE) - there are several excellent and affordable choices - and the PMCC can remain unused your arsenal of EV toys that you will accumulate over the years.
      3. At this point in time getting upset over the PMCC cable heating issue (well documented as safe but surprising and awkward and face palm :facepalm: for Porsche) is a personal choice but does not actually affect the car's ability to charge at it's fully documented rate of 9.6 kW (240 volts @ 50 amps)
those are the facts as I know them above - please read carefully and draw your own conclusions. I personally have zero issues charging a Taycan at 40 amps with the PMCC from a pure safety point of view - and I'll simply accommodate the cable heating issue by knowing the device will be quite warm shortly after a charging session, this may require towel/cloth/pot holder to unplug the device shortly after a charging session. There is _NO_ issue with the temperature of the cable/plug at the vehicle - it's simply where the charger plugs into the wall.

What's the Deal with 9.6 kW vs. 11. kW charging?
  1. in non-North American markets Porsche documents the maximum on board L2 charge rate as 11 kW maximum charge rate.
  2. at 240 volts 11,000 watts - 11 kiloWatts - 11 kW - requires 48 amps of electrical current - this universally true and does not vary by region/market
  3. for the North American Market Porsche documents the maximum charge rate of the Taycan as 9.6 kW (40 amps @ 240 volts)
    1. see here: https://www.porsche.com/usa/models/taycan/taycan-models/taycan-4s/
    2. Screen Shot 2020-08-30 at 10.17.49 AM.png
  4. Before taking delivery of the vehicle I assumed this meant one of a few things
    1. porsche ships two different on board chargers - one of ROW that supports 11 kW charging
    2. porsche limited this to 9.6 kW via software on the North American models.
    3. 11 kw charging was only possible with 3 phase 240 volt power common in Europe with equally common 16 amp phases (3 phase * 16 amps per phase = 48 amps = 11 kW)
  5. What has been observed on some Taycan's delivered to date is that when presented with an EV charger (EVSE) that provides 48 amp or more - the North American Taycan's delivered to date seem to charge quite happily at 48 amps - or 11 kW
    1. https://www.taycanforum.com/forum/t...-charger-48-amps-not-max-9-6-kw-40-amps.1793/
  6. So it appears Porsche documents the limit at 9.6 kW, but actually ships the car with an 11 kW charger like the rest of the world.
  7. We now have a difference between what is specified on the official Taycan specifications and what is observed in the wild -but it's a happy problem, because it means the Taycan can charge faster than documented from an L2 EVSE
  8. Why did Porsche do this?
    1. @daveo4EV speculation: simplicity - a 48 amp charger (60 amp breaker) in North America requires a hardwired connection - there are no building code approved 48/60 amp plugs - it must be hard wired - and that means it is NOT a MOBILE charger.
    2. the maximum charge rate for _ANY_ MOBILE EVSE in North America is 40 amps (50 amp breaker) cause that is the maximum amps for which we have approved/standard/certified plug types in North America
  9. So you as a customer have a choice. You can install any 9.6 kW 40 amp charger you like (including the PMCC with it's uncomfortable heated cable issue) and charge quite happily at 40 amps (9.6 kW) - or - you can purchase any number of alternative EV chargers that support 48 or more amps and charge your Taycan at it's true "full" capacity of 11 kW - but that charger will be hardwired in your garage and not mobile.
    1. purchasing a charger that can do more than 48 amps is a good choice for the future, but will not benefit the Taycan with faster charging times
  10. this makes sense that Porsche is doing this and does not have actually different parts installed in the car for North America vs. the rest of the world
  11. going the 48/60 amp path requires a small leap of faith that Porsche is not going to nerf current/future Taycan to match the documented 9.6 kW charge rate - they could do that and still match the vehicles specifications - but I hope they don't.
Why are we making it so complicated?

for me the issue is getting a brand new circuit installed for EV charging has very little to do with the actual EV charger you're installing. Rather it the hassle factor of getting an electrician, pulling wire, building permits, and the few day/weeks of having to deal with a contractor and building inspector and so on and so forth. By the time it's all said and done the EV charger itself is the least of your worries. It's the pure hassle factor of having a major new 240 volt circuit installed in your home is an acceptable but non-trivial bit of work.

And knowing what I know about EV's - once you go EV it's very hard to envision another gas car in your future - this is only your first EV, and unlikely to be your only EV - there is MORE EV in your future not less EV in your future - so a little bit of planning for your first EV charger install can make your future EV charge planning cheaper and easier…other wise you'll go through this hassle all over again for your next EV, or 2nd EV…

what is this planning you speak of? and yes how can I be off the hook nerd over the top OCD like @daveo4EV and a select few on this forum?
  1. don't install just a 50 amp circuit - which is 100% sufficient for the Taycan and will handle all your needs
  2. install 60 amp or more - install a 100/125 amp circuit to a subpanel in the garage
    1. why? because then adding a 2nd EV charger will be trivial in the future - and no building code inspection because you have a certified/inspected 100 amp subpanel
  3. once you have a "high amp" "feed" to your subpanel in the garage- adding/modifying/removing additional circuits is much easier and cheaper
  4. charging two EV's over night is best if you can handle 100 amps - 50 amp for each EV while they are charging
  5. the cost difference for installing a single 50 amp circuit vs. a 60 amp subpanel or more is normally not that great, and positions you really really well for the future multi-EV household. Pay a little more now, save a lot later when it comes time to have more EV charging capability in your garage.
  6. Why bother with installing 60 amp vs. 50 amp breaker - because no one to date has said - My EV charges too fast. So if you can charge at 48 amps (60 amp breaker) why not? The incremental cost for a 60 amp circuit vs. a 50 amp circuit is truly trivial - and you'll charge 20% faster (48 amps vs. 40 amps)
    1. the reason this is a hassle is that means you can't use the PMCC which has a maximum North American charge rate of 40 amps because of the whole "mobile" plug thing.
The simplest solution is:

  • Install a NEMA 14-50 plug in your garage (certified, inspected, licensed electrician)
  • Plug the PMCC into this plug - mount it on your wall and forget
  • Charge your Taycan at 40 amps
  • ignore the fact that the supply cable gets a little warm cause you're never going to unmount it so it doesn't matter
  • _IF_ you want/need a mobile charger to carry with you in the car there are better, cheaper, more mobile, more functional options for $600 or less such that you can simply leave the PMCC in the garage and never touch it.
  • be happy…
 
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chizwheel

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@Schlossj I'll attempt to answer your question…

I'm going to break my answer into 3 sections
  1. Whats the Deal with the PMCC?
  2. What's the Deal with 11 kW charging vs. 9.6 kW charging
  3. Why are we making this so complicated?
What's the Deal with the PMCC?
  1. the PMCC that is delivered/forced with a US purchase is capable of charging at a maximum of 40 amps - or 9.6 kiloWatts (9,600 watts or 9.6 kW)
  2. Achieving the full charge rate of the North American PMCC @ 40 amps requiresa 50 amp 240 volt residential circuit be installed where you plan to charge the vehicle (breaker and appropriate gauge wire installed by your electrician as specified by local building codes)
    1. this is true for _ANY_ EV charging install and any EV charger
  3. charging @ 40 amps with the PMCC requires one of two types of "PMCC supply cable" that is provided with the charger - a NEMA 14-50 plug type or NEMA 6-50 plug type - these are provided at $0 cost along with your PMCC order with your vehicle - consult your dealer
    1. you as the customer need to make a choice here and what ever type you choose you'll need to have the same plug type installed in your garage by your electrician
      1. the two plugs are electrically identical so the choice does not matter from a purely functional point of view - both function identically.
    2. NEMA 14-50 is the default PMCC supply cable provided if you do no specify on your order - if you do nothing or did not specify a PMCC supply cable type you will/should receive a NEMA 14-50 supply cable for your PMCC.
    3. NEMA 14-50 is however the "best" type to have when away from home since _IF_ you run into a 240 volt plug while traveling NEMA 14-50 are the most common since it is the type of plug used for Recreational Vehicles/Motorshomes as their electrical hook when in an RV park - you are more likely to run into a 14-50 plug than a 6-50 plug when away from home - there are simply more of them installed across North America.
  4. the PMCC Supply cable that Porsche is currently shipping with the PMCC is the minimum electrical specification for wire gauge necessary for 40 amps/240 volts/9.6 kW - I have 100% confidence it is electrically safe but it does/will get uncomfortably hot to handle during a charging session - this particular gauge of wire was a poor choice on Porsche's part for a device that is "mobile" and therefore expected to be handled in normal use - but again the cable rating and wire gauge is safe for it's intended use from a melting/electrical perspective, there is no issue from an electrical point of view.
    1. the uncomfortable temperatures are not actually a problem unless you plan to handle the cable shortly after a charging sessions - not a common scenario in my opinion.
      1. if you never touch the PMCC to unplug shortly after a charging session you will never notice this problem.
    2. via on-screen software controls on the PMCC you can override the 40 amp setting and set the charge rate anywhere from 6 to 40 amps
    3. setting a lower charge rate accumulates less heat in the cable which makes it's easier to handle shortly after a charging session and may make you less nervous about the cable's temperatures.
    4. so this is really only an issue if you intend to use the PMCC with a NEMA 14-50/6-50 plug and handle the charger (take it off the wall) shortly after a charging session. If that is case I recommend a towel/cloth if you intend to handle the NEMA 14-50 plug shortly after a charging session
      1. not common for a home charging scenario - i.e. almost never
      2. very common while traveling out on the road - so perhaps a poor choice as a mobile charger
    5. Porsche's only official response is documented here: https://www.taycanforum.com/forum/threads/nema-14-50-supply-cable-heat-data.1940/page-8- post #111
      1. @daveo4EV opinion: the NEMA 14-50/6-50 PMCC supply cables as provided by Porsche are electrically safe (no data has been presented disputing this)- but will achieve temperatures that are surprisingly uncomfortable for humans to handle - Porsche has made a poor choice here but not an unsafe choice -and it's ONLY an issue if you intend to handle the charger often shortly after a charging session. This is not the normal use case for an EV charger and normally you just setup it up an never touch it again.
      2. _IF_ the supply cables achieving hot to the touch temperatures during a charging session is unacceptable to you personally - you have two choices:
        1. Dial down the AMP's via the PMCC controls on the PMCC screen - 30-34 amps seems to work well and the cable runs much cooler to the touch
        2. purchase and install a different EV Charger (EVSE) - there are several excellent and affordable choices - and the PMCC can remain unused your arsenal of EV toys that you will accumulate over the years.
      3. At this point in time getting upset over the PMCC cable heating issue (well documented as safe but surprising and awkward and face palm :facepalm: for Porsche) is a personal choice but does not actually affect the car's ability to charge at it's fully documented rate of 9.6 kW (240 volts @ 50 amps)
those are the facts as I know them above - please read carefully and draw your own conclusions. I personally have zero issues charging a Taycan at 40 amps with the PMCC from a pure safety point of view - and I'll simply accommodate the cable heating issue by knowing the device will be quite warm shortly after a charging session, this may require towel/cloth/pot holder to unplug the device shortly after a charging session. There is _NO_ issue with the temperature of the cable/plug at the vehicle - it's simply where the charger plugs into the wall.

What's the Deal with 9.6 kW vs. 11. kW charging?
  1. in non-North American markets Porsche documents the maximum on board L2 charge rate as 11 kW maximum charge rate.
  2. at 240 volts 11,000 watts - 11 kiloWatts - 11 kW - requires 48 amps of electrical current - this universally true and does not vary by region/market
  3. for the North American Market Porsche documents the maximum charge rate of the Taycan as 9.6 kW (40 amps @ 240 volts)
    1. see here: https://www.porsche.com/usa/models/taycan/taycan-models/taycan-4s/
    2. Screen Shot 2020-08-30 at 10.17.49 AM.png
  4. Before taking delivery of the vehicle I assumed this meant one of a few things
    1. porsche ships two different on board chargers - one of ROW that supports 11 kW charging
    2. porsche limited this to 9.6 kW via software on the North American models.
    3. 11 kw charging was only possible with 3 phase 240 volt power common in Europe with equally common 16 amp phases (3 phase * 16 amps per phase = 48 amps = 11 kW)
  5. What has been observed on some Taycan's delivered to date is that when presented with an EV charger (EVSE) that provides 48 amp or more - the North American Taycan's delivered to date seem to charge quite happily at 48 amps - or 11 kW
    1. https://www.taycanforum.com/forum/t...-charger-48-amps-not-max-9-6-kw-40-amps.1793/
  6. So it appears Porsche documents the limit at 9.6 kW, but actually ships the car with an 11 kW charger like the rest of the world.
  7. We now have a difference between what is specified on the official Taycan specifications and what is observed in the wild -but it's a happy problem, because it means the Taycan can charge faster than documented from an L2 EVSE
  8. Why did Porsche do this?
    1. @daveo4EV speculation: simplicity - a 48 amp charger (60 amp breaker) in North America requires a hardwired connection - there are no building code approved 48/60 amp plugs - it must be hard wired - and that means it is NOT a MOBILE charger.
    2. the maximum charge rate for _ANY_ MOBILE EVSE in North America is 40 amps (50 amp breaker) cause that is the maximum amps for which we have approved/standard/certified plug types in North America
  9. So you as a customer have a choice. You can install any 9.6 kW 40 amp charger you like (including the PMCC with it's uncomfortable heated cable issue) and charge quite happily at 40 amps (9.6 kW) - or - you can purchase any number of alternative EV chargers that support 48 or more amps and charge your Taycan at it's true "full" capacity of 11 kW - but that charger will be hardwired in your garage and not mobile.
    1. purchasing a charger that can do more than 48 amps is a good choice for the future, but will not benefit the Taycan with faster charging times
  10. this makes sense that Porsche is doing this and does not have actually different parts installed in the car for North America vs. the rest of the world
  11. going the 48/60 amp path requires a small leap of faith that Porsche is not going to nerf current/future Taycan to match the documented 9.6 kW charge rate - they could do that and still match the vehicles specifications - but I hope they don't.
Why are we making it so complicated?

for me the issue is getting a brand new circuit installed for EV charging has very little to do with the actual EV charger you're installing. Rather it the hassle factor of getting an electrician, pulling wire, building permits, and the few day/weeks of having to deal with a contractor and building inspector and so on and so forth. By the time it's all said and done the EV charger itself is the least of your worries. It's the pure hassle factor of having a major new 240 volt circuit installed in your home is an acceptable but non-trivial bit of work.

And knowing what I know about EV's - once you go EV it's very hard to envision another gas car in your future - this is only your first EV, and unlikely to be your only EV - there is MORE EV in your future not less EV in your future - so a little bit of planning for your first EV charger install can make your future EV charge planning cheaper and easier…other wise you'll go through this hassle all over again for your next EV, or 2nd EV…

what is this planning you speak of? and yes how can I be off the hook nerd over the top OCD like @daveo4EV and a select few on this forum?
  1. don't install just a 50 amp circuit - which is 100% sufficient for the Taycan and will handle all your needs
  2. install 60 amp or more - install a 100/125 amp circuit to a subpanel in the garage
    1. why? because then adding a 2nd EV charger will be trivial in the future - and no building code inspection because you have a certified/inspected 100 amp subpanel
  3. once you have a "high amp" "feed" to your subpanel in the garage- adding/modifying/removing additional circuits is much easier and cheaper
  4. charging two EV's over night is best if you can handle 100 amps - 50 amp for each EV while they are charging
  5. the cost difference for installing a single 50 amp circuit vs. a 60 amp subpanel or more is normally not that great, and positions you really really well for the future multi-EV household. Pay a little more now, save a lot later when it comes time to have more EV charging capability in your garage.
  6. Why bother with installing 60 amp vs. 50 amp breaker - because no one to date has said - My EV charges too fast. So if you can charge at 48 amps (60 amp breaker) why not? The incremental cost for a 60 amp circuit vs. a 50 amp circuit is truly trivial - and you'll charge 20% faster (48 amps vs. 40 amps)
    1. the reason this is a hassle is that means you can't use the PMCC which has a maximum North American charge rate of 40 amps because of the whole "mobile" plug thing.
The simplest solution is:

  • Install a NEMA 14-50 plug in your garage (certified, inspected, licensed electrician)
  • Plug the PMCC into this plug - mount it on your wall and forget
  • Charge your Taycan at 40 amps
  • ignore the fact that the supply cable gets a little warm cause you're never going to unmount it so it doesn't matter
  • _IF_ you want/need a mobile charger to carry with you in the car there are better, cheaper, more mobile, more functional options for $600 or less such that you can simply leave the PMCC in the garage and never touch it.
  • be happy…
This is the best write up on this topic by far. Admin should sticky this post on the main page.
 
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daveo4EV

daveo4EV

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Is the PMCC as good as the Tesla Gen2 mobile charger?
hmm - as good - I"ll say different - here is a comparison table - I consider the Tesla charger a "better" mobile charger - but it is lacking some features of the PMCC - so it all depends what features of the two products you value.

I wouldn't say one is better - they have different capabilities.

Screen Shot 2020-08-30 at 12.03.22 PM.png
 

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@Schlossj I'll attempt to answer your question…

I'm going to break my answer into 3 sections
  1. Whats the Deal with the PMCC?
  2. What's the Deal with 11 kW charging vs. 9.6 kW charging
  3. Why are we making this so complicated?
What's the Deal with the PMCC?
  1. the PMCC that is delivered/forced with a US purchase is capable of charging at a maximum of 40 amps - or 9.6 kiloWatts (9,600 watts or 9.6 kW)
  2. Achieving the full charge rate of the North American PMCC @ 40 amps requiresa 50 amp 240 volt residential circuit be installed where you plan to charge the vehicle (breaker and appropriate gauge wire installed by your electrician as specified by local building codes)
    1. this is true for _ANY_ EV charging install and any EV charger
  3. charging @ 40 amps with the PMCC requires one of two types of "PMCC supply cable" that is provided with the charger - a NEMA 14-50 plug type or NEMA 6-50 plug type - these are provided at $0 cost along with your PMCC order with your vehicle - consult your dealer
    1. you as the customer need to make a choice here and what ever type you choose you'll need to have the same plug type installed in your garage by your electrician
      1. the two plugs are electrically identical so the choice does not matter from a purely functional point of view - both function identically.
    2. NEMA 14-50 is the default PMCC supply cable provided if you do no specify on your order - if you do nothing or did not specify a PMCC supply cable type you will/should receive a NEMA 14-50 supply cable for your PMCC.
    3. NEMA 14-50 is however the "best" type to have when away from home since _IF_ you run into a 240 volt plug while traveling NEMA 14-50 are the most common since it is the type of plug used for Recreational Vehicles/Motorshomes as their electrical hook when in an RV park - you are more likely to run into a 14-50 plug than a 6-50 plug when away from home - there are simply more of them installed across North America.
  4. the PMCC Supply cable that Porsche is currently shipping with the PMCC is the minimum electrical specification for wire gauge necessary for 40 amps/240 volts/9.6 kW - I have 100% confidence it is electrically safe but it does/will get uncomfortably hot to handle during a charging session - this particular gauge of wire was a poor choice on Porsche's part for a device that is "mobile" and therefore expected to be handled in normal use - but again the cable rating and wire gauge is safe for it's intended use from a melting/electrical perspective, there is no issue from an electrical point of view.
    1. the uncomfortable temperatures are not actually a problem unless you plan to handle the cable shortly after a charging sessions - not a common scenario in my opinion.
      1. if you never touch the PMCC to unplug shortly after a charging session you will never notice this problem.
    2. via on-screen software controls on the PMCC you can override the 40 amp setting and set the charge rate anywhere from 6 to 40 amps
    3. setting a lower charge rate accumulates less heat in the cable which makes it's easier to handle shortly after a charging session and may make you less nervous about the cable's temperatures.
    4. so this is really only an issue if you intend to use the PMCC with a NEMA 14-50/6-50 plug and handle the charger (take it off the wall) shortly after a charging session. If that is case I recommend a towel/cloth if you intend to handle the NEMA 14-50 plug shortly after a charging session
      1. not common for a home charging scenario - i.e. almost never
      2. very common while traveling out on the road - so perhaps a poor choice as a mobile charger
    5. Porsche's only official response is documented here: https://www.taycanforum.com/forum/threads/nema-14-50-supply-cable-heat-data.1940/page-8- post #111
      1. @daveo4EV opinion: the NEMA 14-50/6-50 PMCC supply cables as provided by Porsche are electrically safe (no data has been presented disputing this)- but will achieve temperatures that are surprisingly uncomfortable for humans to handle - Porsche has made a poor choice here but not an unsafe choice -and it's ONLY an issue if you intend to handle the charger often shortly after a charging session. This is not the normal use case for an EV charger and normally you just setup it up an never touch it again.
      2. _IF_ the supply cables achieving hot to the touch temperatures during a charging session is unacceptable to you personally - you have two choices:
        1. Dial down the AMP's via the PMCC controls on the PMCC screen - 30-34 amps seems to work well and the cable runs much cooler to the touch
        2. purchase and install a different EV Charger (EVSE) - there are several excellent and affordable choices - and the PMCC can remain unused your arsenal of EV toys that you will accumulate over the years.
      3. At this point in time getting upset over the PMCC cable heating issue (well documented as safe but surprising and awkward and face palm :facepalm: for Porsche) is a personal choice but does not actually affect the car's ability to charge at it's fully documented rate of 9.6 kW (240 volts @ 50 amps)
those are the facts as I know them above - please read carefully and draw your own conclusions. I personally have zero issues charging a Taycan at 40 amps with the PMCC from a pure safety point of view - and I'll simply accommodate the cable heating issue by knowing the device will be quite warm shortly after a charging session, this may require towel/cloth/pot holder to unplug the device shortly after a charging session. There is _NO_ issue with the temperature of the cable/plug at the vehicle - it's simply where the charger plugs into the wall.

What's the Deal with 9.6 kW vs. 11. kW charging?
  1. in non-North American markets Porsche documents the maximum on board L2 charge rate as 11 kW maximum charge rate.
  2. at 240 volts 11,000 watts - 11 kiloWatts - 11 kW - requires 48 amps of electrical current - this universally true and does not vary by region/market
  3. for the North American Market Porsche documents the maximum charge rate of the Taycan as 9.6 kW (40 amps @ 240 volts)
    1. see here: https://www.porsche.com/usa/models/taycan/taycan-models/taycan-4s/
    2. Screen Shot 2020-08-30 at 10.17.49 AM.png
  4. Before taking delivery of the vehicle I assumed this meant one of a few things
    1. porsche ships two different on board chargers - one of ROW that supports 11 kW charging
    2. porsche limited this to 9.6 kW via software on the North American models.
    3. 11 kw charging was only possible with 3 phase 240 volt power common in Europe with equally common 16 amp phases (3 phase * 16 amps per phase = 48 amps = 11 kW)
  5. What has been observed on some Taycan's delivered to date is that when presented with an EV charger (EVSE) that provides 48 amp or more - the North American Taycan's delivered to date seem to charge quite happily at 48 amps - or 11 kW
    1. https://www.taycanforum.com/forum/t...-charger-48-amps-not-max-9-6-kw-40-amps.1793/
  6. So it appears Porsche documents the limit at 9.6 kW, but actually ships the car with an 11 kW charger like the rest of the world.
  7. We now have a difference between what is specified on the official Taycan specifications and what is observed in the wild -but it's a happy problem, because it means the Taycan can charge faster than documented from an L2 EVSE
  8. Why did Porsche do this?
    1. @daveo4EV speculation: simplicity - a 48 amp charger (60 amp breaker) in North America requires a hardwired connection - there are no building code approved 48/60 amp plugs - it must be hard wired - and that means it is NOT a MOBILE charger.
    2. the maximum charge rate for _ANY_ MOBILE EVSE in North America is 40 amps (50 amp breaker) cause that is the maximum amps for which we have approved/standard/certified plug types in North America
  9. So you as a customer have a choice. You can install any 9.6 kW 40 amp charger you like (including the PMCC with it's uncomfortable heated cable issue) and charge quite happily at 40 amps (9.6 kW) - or - you can purchase any number of alternative EV chargers that support 48 or more amps and charge your Taycan at it's true "full" capacity of 11 kW - but that charger will be hardwired in your garage and not mobile.
    1. purchasing a charger that can do more than 48 amps is a good choice for the future, but will not benefit the Taycan with faster charging times
  10. this makes sense that Porsche is doing this and does not have actually different parts installed in the car for North America vs. the rest of the world
  11. going the 48/60 amp path requires a small leap of faith that Porsche is not going to nerf current/future Taycan to match the documented 9.6 kW charge rate - they could do that and still match the vehicles specifications - but I hope they don't.
Why are we making it so complicated?

for me the issue is getting a brand new circuit installed for EV charging has very little to do with the actual EV charger you're installing. Rather it the hassle factor of getting an electrician, pulling wire, building permits, and the few day/weeks of having to deal with a contractor and building inspector and so on and so forth. By the time it's all said and done the EV charger itself is the least of your worries. It's the pure hassle factor of having a major new 240 volt circuit installed in your home is an acceptable but non-trivial bit of work.

And knowing what I know about EV's - once you go EV it's very hard to envision another gas car in your future - this is only your first EV, and unlikely to be your only EV - there is MORE EV in your future not less EV in your future - so a little bit of planning for your first EV charger install can make your future EV charge planning cheaper and easier…other wise you'll go through this hassle all over again for your next EV, or 2nd EV…

what is this planning you speak of? and yes how can I be off the hook nerd over the top OCD like @daveo4EV and a select few on this forum?
  1. don't install just a 50 amp circuit - which is 100% sufficient for the Taycan and will handle all your needs
  2. install 60 amp or more - install a 100/125 amp circuit to a subpanel in the garage
    1. why? because then adding a 2nd EV charger will be trivial in the future - and no building code inspection because you have a certified/inspected 100 amp subpanel
  3. once you have a "high amp" "feed" to your subpanel in the garage- adding/modifying/removing additional circuits is much easier and cheaper
  4. charging two EV's over night is best if you can handle 100 amps - 50 amp for each EV while they are charging
  5. the cost difference for installing a single 50 amp circuit vs. a 60 amp subpanel or more is normally not that great, and positions you really really well for the future multi-EV household. Pay a little more now, save a lot later when it comes time to have more EV charging capability in your garage.
  6. Why bother with installing 60 amp vs. 50 amp breaker - because no one to date has said - My EV charges too fast. So if you can charge at 48 amps (60 amp breaker) why not? The incremental cost for a 60 amp circuit vs. a 50 amp circuit is truly trivial - and you'll charge 20% faster (48 amps vs. 40 amps)
    1. the reason this is a hassle is that means you can't use the PMCC which has a maximum North American charge rate of 40 amps because of the whole "mobile" plug thing.
The simplest solution is:

  • Install a NEMA 14-50 plug in your garage (certified, inspected, licensed electrician)
  • Plug the PMCC into this plug - mount it on your wall and forget
  • Charge your Taycan at 40 amps
  • ignore the fact that the supply cable gets a little warm cause you're never going to unmount it so it doesn't matter
  • _IF_ you want/need a mobile charger to carry with you in the car there are better, cheaper, more mobile, more functional options for $600 or less such that you can simply leave the PMCC in the garage and never touch it.
  • be happy…
As expected, a phenomenal response. Super clear and actionable. Thank you sir!
 

Toby Pennycuff

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what is this planning you speak of? and yes how can I be off the hook nerd over the top OCD like @daveo4EV and a select few on this forum?
I've NO IDEA who you might be referencing here!

Nice job of documenting the situation Dave. BTW, my HCS-60 shows up tomorrow. My electrician is replacing the 50-amp breaker with a 60-amp breaker on Saturday, and the PMCC will go back in its designated carry bag in the truck! And before you ask, the circuit was originally installed with 6 AWG wire. Oh, and my electrician isn't bothering to pull the meter or power down the panel when changing the breaker! :eek:
 

ron_b

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I've NO IDEA who you might be referencing here!

Nice job of documenting the situation Dave. BTW, my HCS-60 shows up tomorrow. My electrician is replacing the 50-amp breaker with a 60-amp breaker on Saturday, and the PMCC will go back in its designated carry bag in the truck! And before you ask, the circuit was originally installed with 6 AWG wire. Oh, and my electrician isn't bothering to pull the meter or power down the panel when changing the breaker! :eek:
That's ok, I didn't power down the panel when I switched from a breaker feeding an air conditioner to feeding a 14-50 for a temporary solution. Just use one hand and life's good.
 

LonePalmBJ

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One more redundant data point: I connected my 80a capable TeslaTap to a friends 80a Tesla Wall Charger and the car charged at 10.64kW when I spot checked, so 11kW charging is possible that route as well.
 

Marshall

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One more redundant data point: I connected my 80a capable TeslaTap to a friends 80a Tesla Wall Charger and the car charged at 10.64kW when I spot checked, so 11kW charging is possible that route as well.
I connect my car to my Juice Box 48 and the car charges consistently at 10.6KW. The charger software says it is using 47.8 amps. No problems whatsoever.
 

HelfFL

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I've NO IDEA who you might be referencing here!

Nice job of documenting the situation Dave. BTW, my HCS-60 shows up tomorrow. My electrician is replacing the 50-amp breaker with a 60-amp breaker on Saturday, and the PMCC will go back in its designated carry bag in the truck! And before you ask, the circuit was originally installed with 6 AWG wire. Oh, and my electrician isn't bothering to pull the meter or power down the panel when changing the breaker! :eek:
@Toby Pennycuff How did your HCS-60 install go? Any feedback on differences with heat data at charger and circuit breaker using the HCS-60?
 

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