Gearbox: totally unnecessary.

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Dee

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I don’t know what doesn’t make sense about what I said so I have nothing further to comment.
It did make sense but not in relation to my point.
Never mind. 😉
 
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bosbruce

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How fast do people want to drive on public roads?

And if its not on public roads, its on a track where the Taycan Turbo S should be quicker than any Tesla - as they have got all the important stuff that you mentioned (handling, brakes, chassis etc) sorted out way better Tesla.

Or, it may be on the Drag Strip. In which case stick with Tesla Plaid if 0-60 is important to you.

The chief designer of the Taycan said he drove every electric car, but his only bench mark was the 911.
Says it all really.

And as stared above, I also barely notice the gear change on my Taycan.
I trust Porsche engineers way more than I would Tesla.

No one NEEDs a Taycan, or a Tesla... Let's face it, we are merely talking about desires here, not needs...Which of course is why Porsche had to beat the previous Tesla performance benchmark in 0-60 (they caressed their messaging that it would beat it for repeated runs as the old Tesla S could not sustain power long) with the Turbo S. Since then Tesla has upped it's game and the Plaid has trounced the Porsche Turbo on the Nurbergring by 12 seconds as it now has way more power on the rear axle without any need for gear changes and better thermal management. Very likely Porsche used the Turbo for their run because it was as quick as the Turbo S given that the S allows limits to be pushed so far as to generate too much heat (A much lesser EV, the Mustang Mach E GT has an "Unbridled Extend" mode that holds back a little of the peak "Unbridled" power so that power can be sustained for longer track runs).

Glad you don't notice the gear changes at all... I certainly did on my test drive and I'm pretty sure there will be edge cases going into tight corners, foot on brake, then transitioning to heavy throttle, that the Taycan will downshift mid corner possibly leading to bad consequences if the driver isn't fully prepared (and nannies aren't fully engaged)... That said it also can lead to slightly different neck-snapping fun too...

The Taycan is a great first Porsche pure EV, but it isn't perfect ... And I agree with OP here that the 2 speed transmission was their way to achieve a needed goal with parts they had where one or two rear motors with more torque capable of higher RPM power would have been a better purist solution.
 
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TDinDC

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At first, the shifting really, really bothered me coming in from a Tesla. It seemed like it was always awkwardly shifting around town. I think finally figured out how to use the individual setting in Sport Chrono (thanks in part to this forum), and this fixed the problem. I keep the transmission setting set to sport or sport plus around town so that I stay in first gear. When I go on a road trip or any time I want to preserve range, I'll go to normal or range and stay in second gear because I will intentionally be seeking not to trigger a downshift. Problem solved.
 

whitex

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I was only taking about performance, 0-60, as Porsche is all about performance.
I'm talking about performance, things you can actually experience.
Performance includes many aspects you can experience other than 0-60. 60-100 for example. Top speed and ability to sustain it, cornering capabilities, 60-0 (braking performance), repeatability of performance parameters (such as 0-60, 60-0), etc, etc. All these things fall into a category of performance which you are right Porsche is all about. You however seem to be equating performance as 0-60 times, nothing else. If Porsche defined performance as narrowly as you do, all Porsches would look something like this:
Porsche Taycan Gearbox: totally unnecessary. 1657953793015
 


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Performance includes many aspects you can experience other than 0-60. 60-100 for example. Top speed and ability to sustain it, cornering capabilities, 60-0 (braking performance), repeatability of performance parameters (such as 0-60, 60-0), etc, etc. All these things fall into a category of performance which you are right Porsche is all about. You however seem to be equating performance as 0-60 times, nothing else. If Porsche defined performance as narrowly as you do, all Porsches would look something like this:
1657953793015.png
Let me put it this way: if you see people don't understand your point just stop explaining.
I'm sorry you guys just don't seem to understand my point.
My bad. 🤷🏻‍♂️
Moving on.
 
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So the Taycan has a 2-speed gearbox.
As we all know, a gearbox is to overcome the shortcomings of an engine/motor.
So why did Porsche make a gearbox as electric motors really don't need a gearbox after all due to their power and torquecurve.
I guess it was to defeat Tesla but in the end it isn't that quick after all, still ridiculously quick though...

So, my conclusion is that it only added extra weight and that has killed the extra performance (and efficiency) which I think was the whole concept of adding a gearbox: to improve performance.

What Porsche should've done is raise the ratio more cuz only then it would benefit the performance (if you wear proper shoes that is).
I'm talking 0-60 times here.
Ok, you'll loose some topspeed but still it would make much more sense.

What are your thoughts about the advantage of a gearbox in the Taycan?
I read this entire thread. You keep saying "2 speed did not make a difference in performance". You seem to be basing that argument on 0-60 mph acceleration only. Did you look at 0-100mph, or more importantly 50-150 mph accelerations? I think Porsches 2-speed transmission choice was driven by two things 1- They wanted a more natural acceleration curve, a curve that resembles an ICE vehicle 2- They wanted to make the HP-Performance ratio somewhat comparable to the ICE vehicles in their line up. Taycans don't have that major drop in acceleration you experience in many other EVs after 60-70 mph. And this was made possible with the 2-speed set up.
 
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You seem to be basing that argument on 0-60 mph acceleration only. Did you look at 0-100mph, or more importantly 50-150 mph accelerations? I think Porsches 2-speed transmission choice was driven by two things 1- They wanted a more natural acceleration curve, a curve that resembles an ICE vehicle 2- They wanted to make the HP-Performance ratio somewhat comparable to the ICE vehicles in their line up. Taycans don't have that major drop in acceleration you experience in many other EVs after 60-70 mph. And this was made possible with the 2-speed set up.
No.
First gear is for fast acceleration, hence the threshold of 0-65-ish and overboost for 2,5 seconds when using LC.
That's why the rear motor is bigger.
Second gear is for efficient highway cruise (hence the smaller front motor).

I think Porsches 2-speed transmission choice was driven by two things 1- They wanted a more natural acceleration curve, a curve that resembles an ICE vehicle
Electric motors have a completely different torque curve so that's total nonsense.
Porsche wanted to go as fast as possible, simple.

My point is that a two-speed isn't quicker (and therefore unnecessary) than a set-up with a bigger motor with lower gear ratio (like @Jhenson29 correctly stated).
 
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Raphie

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You guys need to drive more in Europe.
0-60mph is fun. But going from 70mph-130mph is way more fun. Tesla’s just seem to come to a stand still. With the Taycan you can have your cake and eat it. whether it’s 0-60mph humiliating Tesla’s, Or 70-140mhz laugh at bmw5’s and Mercs e’s.
that’s why you have the gearbox. If you don’t find that fun, then maybe you should move to Kia or Tesla. :CWL:
 

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With the Taycan you can have your cake and eat it. whether it’s 0-60mph humiliating Tesla’s,
I guess you guys don't have Tesla Model S Plain in your country. In the US, if 0-60 is your top priority, you buy a Plaid, unless you have a ton of money, then you buy a Nevera which leaves Plaid in the dust. Even the SUV version (Model X Plaid) will out-accelerate a Taycan Turbo S sedan 0-60 any time - with or without launch control (Taycan actually does worse against a Plaid without launch control). Google drag racing videos of Plaid vs Taycan.

So, if you consider it humiliating to get out-accelerated by a Tesla 0-60, I hope for your sake you don't run into any Plaids.
 

Raphie

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We don’t see a lot of plaids, most of the time standard S, 3, or Y.
they are 99% leased company cars, because of tax incentives. Very few purchase a Tesla out of free will in the Netherlands. It’s considered a wage slave, cheapskate car. It’s lifestyle branding is awfull.
 

whitex

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It’s considered a wage slave, cheapskate car. It’s lifestyle branding is awfull.
Then I really hope you don't run into one, as it would be extra humiliating to be out-accelerated by a soccer mom in a cheepskate car full of kids. ;)

PS> Unless you are driving a Taycan Turbo of higher, I think even the old Performance (Ludicrous) Teslas will take you 0-60, even 40-80.
 
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You guys need to drive more in Europe.
0-60mph is fun. But going from 70mph-130mph is way more fun. Tesla’s just seem to come to a stand still. With the Taycan you can have your cake and eat it. whether it’s 0-60mph humiliating Tesla’s, Or 70-140mhz laugh at bmw5’s and Mercs e’s.
that’s why you have the gearbox. If you don’t find that fun, then maybe you should move to Kia or Tesla. :CWL:
I think you're missing the point of this topic.
It's about why a two-speed gearbox isn't necessarily better than a bigger motor.
Tesla Plaid just prove that it's quicker without a two-speed gearbox but with more motors (which is kind of a bigger motor).
Or a Lucid Air.
Nevertheless, it's so much fun to out-accelerate Tesla's, Lamborghinis, Ferraris, Audi RSs and AMGs. 🤭
 
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Raphie

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Imagine what a new Turbo S with 1200hp and a gearbox would do, take off :CWL:
 
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whitex

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Imagine what a new Turbo S with 1200hp and a gearbox would do, take off :CWL:
I think we just crossed into Elon reality territory, selling dreams of what could be in the future, rather that what is today. I already waited years for Porsche to finally release Mission E, then over 2 years for them to release and finally build me a Taycan Turbo CT. Not waiting some unknown number of years to get a 1200hp Taycan CT or ST. To be honest, I would not bet any money that it will even be available by the time my Taycan runs out of its factory warranty.

If we are going to compare fictional future cars, let's compare that 1200hp Taycan to the new Tesla Roadster, the latter being probably closer to production than 1200hp Taycan.
Sponsored

 
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