GTS Sport Turismo range was much more than initially indicated/expected on long drive!

[Ross]

You are arguing at cross purposes.
The crucial factor is SPEED -
Motorway driving is not more or less efficient just because its motorway -
70 mph average speed will always be less efficient than 50 mph average speed over a journey whether it is motorway or not.
The fact that there is no opportunity for recuperation at a steady 70mph has absolutely nothing to do with the fact that 'motorway' driving is less efficient.
The fact that there is opportunity for recuperation on non-motorway driving has absolutely nothing to do with it being found to be more efficient. It is solely because it is a slower average speed.
If the average speed is the same, for example 60mph, the motorway will be hugely more efficient as the speed is constant so no acceleration.(Assuming free flowing traffic)
Maintaining a relatively constant speed and not touching the brakes is hugely more efficient than accelerating and braking.
No matter how efficient recuperation is, braking from 60 to zero will always recuperate MUCH less energy than the energy used accelerating from 0-60, no matter how gently.
We EV drivers love a bit of recuperation. Lovely. Miles better than losing all that kinetic energy to friction. Free energy!
It is however a complete myth that recuperation has anything other than a minor effect on consumption.
Drive up a mountain and use 100% of your battery. Coast back down the same way and recuperate as necessary so you don't go over a cliff. The battery will be about 10% if your lucky.
We haven't invented the perpetual motion motor yet. That is science fiction, not science

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[W1NGE]

You are arguing at cross purposes.
The crucial factor is SPEED -
Motorway driving is not more or less efficient just because its motorway -
70 mph average speed will always be less efficient than 50 mph average speed over a journey whether it is motorway or not.
The fact that there is no opportunity for recuperation at a steady 70mph has absolutely nothing to do with the fact that 'motorway' driving is less efficient.
The fact that there is opportunity for recuperation on non-motorway driving has absolutely nothing to do with it being found to be more efficient. It is solely because it is a slower average speed.
If the average speed is the same, for example 60mph, the motorway will be hugely more efficient as the speed is constant so no acceleration.(Assuming free flowing traffic)
Maintaining a relatively constant speed and not touching the brakes is hugely more efficient than accelerating and braking.
No matter how efficient recuperation is, braking from 60 to zero will always recuperate MUCH less energy than the energy used accelerating from 0-60, no matter how gently.
We EV drivers love a bit of recuperation. Lovely. Miles better than losing all that kinetic energy to friction. Free energy!
It is however a complete myth that recuperation has anything other than a minor effect on consumption.
Drive up a mountain and use 100% of your battery. Coast back down the same way and recuperate as necessary so you don't go over a cliff. The battery will be about 10% if your lucky.
We haven't invented the perpetual motion motor yet. That is science fiction, not science

Have to disagree - recuperation is in the mix and therefore must add something rather than detract - illogical to think / assume otherwise.

 

[Ross]

De

Have to disagree - recuperation is in the mix and therefore must add something rather than detract - illogical to think / assume otherwise.

Definitely adds something. Totally agree.

It certainly does not detract.
Braking should be minimised for optimum efficiency but of course if that braking, when you have to, puts a few watts back in the battery then the efficiency is obviously better than the no watts of friction braking

The Taycan is noticeably more efficient after the brakes have bedded in.
Definitely noticeable, but not by much.

I have frequently and repeatedly posted on threads where people complain about poor consumption with a brand new car that when recuperation kicks in it will improve.
Only however by 5 - 10%.
People think it’s a magic pill.
It’s not.

The ultimate nonsense is when people claim 1 pedal driving is more efficient than coasting because you are constantly recuperating.

Nowhere in my previous post does it say it doesn’t add something.
That, as you say , would be illogical.
Unfortunately even with Porsche state of the art recuperation it ain’t much.

It is still much more efficient to coast and maintain constant speed with minimal acceleration and minimal braking, even when that braking is by magnets recuperating a few watts and not friction.

 

[Archimedes]

Love the nerd debate over recuperation. Geez folks, just plug your cars in and drive them. So much mental masturbation in the EV crowd.

 

[Ross]

Love the nerd debate over recuperation. Geez folks, just plug your cars in and drive them. So much mental masturbation in the EV crowd.

Point taken!
I love this forum.
I love the fact that a guy in sunny(?) Monterey California (?) is not ‘just plugging in and driving’ on a Friday afternoon!
He is on a nerd/geek forum reading posts from an English guy and a Scottish guy debating the merits of recuperation!
And actually posting a response!
The rich irony is surely inescapable!!
For the record, my wife is in London. I am looking after my boys and waiting for the pie to cook. I have had 2 Negronis so I am not going for a drive!

Until after the 3rd Negroni when I actually drive better.

 

[Archimedes]

Point taken!
I love this forum.
I love the fact that a guy in sunny(?) Monterey California (?) is not ‘just plugging in and driving’ on a Friday afternoon!

Yes, after driving though the beautiful coastal countryside to my golf club, playing 18, and then driving home, I posted on here from the sunshine of my back deck. Car currently has who the fuck knows how much battery left, and will be plugged in tonight to charge to whatever the fuck it charges to on my whatchamacalit charger. That is if our power is restored by nightfall…

 

[Raphie]

Coasting is the real saving, which works best in range mode, release pedal and roll out.

 

[whitex]

Have to disagree - recuperation is in the mix and therefore must add something rather than detract - illogical to think / assume otherwise.

Recouperation instead of braking, yes, it adds range as some of the kinetic energy goes into the battery instead or brake wear and heat.

Recuperation instead of coasting or constant speed, loses range. Simple physics: Recuperation is not 100% efficient, therefore every time you use it, it takes away kinetic energy of the car but not all of it ends up in the battery, you lose some energy (it turns into heat). Traveling at fixed speed, say 50mph is more efficient than oscillating between 45-55 using recuperation to slow down from 55 to 45, then accelerating back to 55, keeping average speed 50.

PS> Latest Teslas can actually reuse that inefficiency heat to heat the cabin, battery. They even run the motors extra inefficiently sometimes to generate more heat (zero weight heater), so your regen can actually be much more net efficient. Maybe next gen Taycan will do that too.

 

[gtm]

Simply not true. Brake regeneration is fine but doesn’t offset the need for acceleration to get back up to speed. Hypermiling is all about driving smooth for as much time as possible.

+1.
Any acceleration uses more energy than recuperation recovers for the same mph change.

 

[ardevd]

Which, incidentally is why the Taycan coasts instead of recuperates by default.

 

[W1NGE]

Coasting is the real saving, which works best in range mode, release pedal and roll out.

Coasting is coasting regardless of Drive mode.

Don't follow why it would be better in Range drive mode.

Post last year's uPdate, MY20 - MY22 all cars benefited from a complete decoupling of the motors where no power was sent to drive them - previously there was a trickle.

 

[Raphie]

In sport+ the deacceleration is much stronger than normal and again less on range (range feels like ICE, normal like hybrid) MY21 4s

 

[W1NGE]

In sport+ the deacceleration is much stronger than normal and again less on range (range feels like ICE, normal like hybrid) MY21 4s

It is but the baseline here is Normal drive mode and overrun recuperation switched off.

Braking recuperation can't be switched on or off and therefore a constant.

 

[Ross]

Coasting is coasting regardless of Drive mode.

Don't follow why it would be better in Range drive mode.

Post last year's uPdate, MY20 - MY22 all cars benefited from a complete decoupling of the motors where no power was sent to drive them - previously there was a trickle.

Because in Range mode the suspension setting is default at the lowest setting meaning there are aerodynamic advantages.
If in Normal mode you overide the standard suspension setting and manually drop to the lowest then it’s probably the same. I can’t think of anything else unless decoupling and recoupling(?) the rear motor only instead of both is a micro mechanical advantage(?!)

 

[Raphie]

You guys make it to complicated imho. Just my experience, at default settings, just flipping profiles on the Chrono, I get most mileage out of “range”. Releasing the pedal the deacceleration is lowest on range. What’s causing that and whether that can be equalized by changing individual settings is way to complicated for me. less resistance is more rolling distance is more savings (more than the recurpation the resistance brings)

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