W1NGE

Well-Known Member
First Name
Adrian
Joined
Jan 11, 2021
Threads
31
Messages
8,733
Reaction score
5,213
Location
Aberdeen, Scotland
Vehicles
GTS ST, Macan T
Country flag
Because in Range mode the suspension setting is default at the lowest setting meaning there are aerodynamic advantages.
If in Normal mode you overide the standard suspension setting and manually drop to the lowest then it’s probably the same. I can’t think of anything else unless decoupling and recoupling(?) the rear motor only instead of both is a micro mechanical advantage(?!)
Suspension height nor the active air intake flaps closing in Range mode will make little or no difference in the real world.

Comparison here includes motorway driving at a constant speed and so the car will lower regardless with Range mode dropping a few more mm.

Switching AC to Eco will in principle extend range estimate. So either drive mode should have AC set to the same setting given the profound impact AC has in general on consumption.

Again, post uPdate, setting a destination in NAV and then switching between Normal and Range often leads to the same SOC estimate at journey's end.
Sponsored

 

Raphie

Well-Known Member
Joined
Dec 15, 2022
Threads
28
Messages
573
Reaction score
522
Location
NL
Vehicles
Porsche Taycan 4s (21)
Country flag
True, the settings don’t change, as they don’t take driving style into account) but in range the arrival estimated SOC increases during travel with 2 to 3%. Tested this now multiple times during 69km one way commutes.
 

ardevd

Well-Known Member
Joined
Apr 19, 2021
Threads
8
Messages
73
Reaction score
123
Location
Norway
Vehicles
Taycan GTS
Country flag
Suspension height nor the active air intake flaps closing in Range mode will make little or no difference in the real world.

Comparison here includes motorway driving at a constant speed and so the car will lower regardless with Range mode dropping a few more mm.

Switching AC to Eco will in principle extend range estimate. So either drive mode should have AC set to the same setting given the profound impact AC has in general on consumption.

Again, post uPdate, setting a destination in NAV and then switching between Normal and Range often leads to the same SOC estimate at journey's end.
I disagree. Range mode is more than suspension lowering and motor decoupling.

The cooling air flaps and ride height (22 mm lower) are adjusted for minimum drag. Air conditioning, hydraulic pumps, including the coolant pump, air suspension and headlights also operate in their most efficient settings. At night time you can even see the headlamps dim down when you switch to range mode.
 
Last edited:

W1NGE

Well-Known Member
First Name
Adrian
Joined
Jan 11, 2021
Threads
31
Messages
8,733
Reaction score
5,213
Location
Aberdeen, Scotland
Vehicles
GTS ST, Macan T
Country flag
I disagree. Range mode is more than suspension lowering and motor decoupling.

The cooling air flaps and ride height (22 mm lower) are adjusted for minimum drag. Air conditioning, hydraulic pumps, including the coolant pump, air suspension and headlights also operate in their most efficient settings. At night time you can even see the headlamps dim down when you switch to range mode.
Ok so you didn't fully read my post.

Cooling flaps = active air Intake

Ride height was discussed - little material difference when at 70 mph and adjusting drive mode to either of Range or Normal - range estimate typically will remain static. Range height is lower than low but not material contributor to extending range.

AC was also mentioned - to compare Normal drive mode with Range drive mode requires AC to be set to Eco (default for Range but can be overridden).

Headlights (you forgot the rear AC where fitted and if zero occupancy it is switched off) and a few more items besides) are not relevant to this discussion (we aren't driving the car on fumes to force any of these Range mode features to take effect - that would be silly).
 


W1NGE

Well-Known Member
First Name
Adrian
Joined
Jan 11, 2021
Threads
31
Messages
8,733
Reaction score
5,213
Location
Aberdeen, Scotland
Vehicles
GTS ST, Macan T
Country flag
Unfortunately the Porsche range estimator doesn't facilitate tweaking of all parameters but if we compare the same vehicle, same ambient, default drive mode used in the estimator is Normal, 21" wheels, AC on, same driver, same wind direction and speed, mother-in-law is not in the car, etc then:

Porsche Taycan GTS Sport Turismo range was much more than initially indicated/expected on long drive! 1679744325378


Porsche Taycan GTS Sport Turismo range was much more than initially indicated/expected on long drive! 1679744370895


Supports my real world experience.

Switching to Range mode in either scenario will apply the same "efficiencies".

Ergo motorway driving is less efficient in terms of range.
 

whitex

Well-Known Member
Joined
Jul 30, 2021
Threads
58
Messages
4,851
Reaction score
3,993
Location
WA, USA
Vehicles
2023 Taycan TCT, 2024 Q8 eTron P+
Country flag
Unfortunately the Porsche range estimator doesn't facilitate tweaking of all parameters but if we compare the same vehicle, same ambient, default drive mode used in the estimator is Normal, 21" wheels, AC on, same driver, same wind direction and speed, mother-in-law is not in the car, etc then:

1679744325378.png


1679744370895.png


Supports my real world experience.

Switching to Range mode in either scenario will apply the same "efficiencies".

Ergo motorway driving is less efficient in terms of range.
What are the assumed speeds on Motorway vs. Country Road?
 

ardevd

Well-Known Member
Joined
Apr 19, 2021
Threads
8
Messages
73
Reaction score
123
Location
Norway
Vehicles
Taycan GTS
Country flag
So what is your argument exactly? That stop/go driving on country roads is more efficient than smooth motorway driving at speeds below 60mph?
 


Ross

Well-Known Member
First Name
Ross
Joined
Oct 27, 2021
Threads
13
Messages
620
Reaction score
782
Location
Lancashire
Vehicles
Taycan GTS - Audi Etron
Country flag
OK, I will accept that there are not huge advantages in Range mode.
But it is risible to suggest that it is just window dressing by Porsche and some kind of conspiracy theory with no actual effect.
All the work and research done by Porsche engineers, thousands of test miles and millions of Euros spent for changes that produce, ok, marginal gains as detailed in the above posts.
Put them all together and the result is a noticeable, consistent, up to 10%, improvement in range. I have been using range mode for 3 years.
I am a range pushing hypermiling Taycan nerd/geek who has, in summer 2021, in ideal conditions got a real, 315 miles out of a single charge. (20 inch aero wheels, 4S)
300 miles is, I believe, not achievable in normal mode.
The efficiency gain is probably less than 10% but depending on how you drive it could be a 25 mile range difference.
 

W1NGE

Well-Known Member
First Name
Adrian
Joined
Jan 11, 2021
Threads
31
Messages
8,733
Reaction score
5,213
Location
Aberdeen, Scotland
Vehicles
GTS ST, Macan T
Country flag
So what is your argument exactly? That stop/go driving on country roads is more efficient than smooth motorway driving at speeds below 60mph?
I'm not arguing anything - like many threads in this forum people typically lose site of the original point(s) raised.

Motorway driving is less efficient (demonstrably so) than driving on country roads over the same distance primarily aided by a lower average speed and brake recuperation - that was the premise - some folk were in denial.
 

W1NGE

Well-Known Member
First Name
Adrian
Joined
Jan 11, 2021
Threads
31
Messages
8,733
Reaction score
5,213
Location
Aberdeen, Scotland
Vehicles
GTS ST, Macan T
Country flag
OK, I will accept that there are not huge advantages in Range mode.
But it is risible to suggest that it is just window dressing by Porsche and some kind of conspiracy theory with no actual effect.
All the work and research done by Porsche engineers, thousands of test miles and millions of Euros spent for changes that produce, ok, marginal gains as detailed in the above posts.
Put them all together and the result is a noticeable, consistent, up to 10%, improvement in range. I have been using range mode for 3 years.
I am a range pushing hypermiling Taycan nerd/geek who has, in summer 2021, in ideal conditions got a real, 315 miles out of a single charge. (20 inch aero wheels, 4S)
300 miles is, I believe, not achievable in normal mode.
The efficiency gain is probably less than 10% but depending on how you drive it could be a 25 mile range difference.
The part you've not considered is that at launch (2020) the Taycan had all the same features and Porsche made many claims. Drive mode - Range - offered advantages over the other drive modes.

This was all true.

BUT - the major software upgrade (and other smaller ones) rolled out last year completely (in my opinion) turned this on its head. All cars prior to MY23 received major PME (power management) tweaks and user interface tweaks.

The impact of that was to alter the behaviour of Range Drive mode (in particular with AWD variants) where energy was saved by switching off (actually even that was misquoted - the motor was uncoupled but still energised) the rear motor (generally the larger of the 2 motors in AWD variants) and to rely on the front motor for traction.

The software updates that were then rolled out changed this behaviour to the extent now that when coasting both motors are uncoupled and de-energised, When in Normal or Range drive mode AWD models became predominantly rear wheel drive most of the time rather than relying on a single (front) motor.

Everything that we thought we had learned and understood from the early days was turned upside down and so we (where interested) have to re-learn the altered characteristics of the car.

In summary, Range drive mode (ignore the energy saving features when HV battery power gets low) offers very little range enhancement - a few single digit miles here or there and not the double digits it used to. The cynic in me says that Porsche have quietly and conveniently ignored this in the same way they have chosen not to recalculate all WTLP figures since uPdate where the hype of more range was talked up. Only the GTS was recalculated if memory serves.
 
Last edited:

ardevd

Well-Known Member
Joined
Apr 19, 2021
Threads
8
Messages
73
Reaction score
123
Location
Norway
Vehicles
Taycan GTS
Country flag
I'm not arguing anything - like many threads in this forum people typically lose site of the original point(s) raised.

Motorway driving is less efficient (demonstrably so) than driving on country roads over the same distance primarily aided by a lower average speed and brake recuperation - that was the premise - some folk were in denial.
My argument would be that driving smoothly at a constant speed is significantly more efficient than stop-and-go driving at the same speed. Brake recuperation preserves some of the kinetic energy lost but doesn’t offset the subsequent need for energy to get back up to speed.
 

W1NGE

Well-Known Member
First Name
Adrian
Joined
Jan 11, 2021
Threads
31
Messages
8,733
Reaction score
5,213
Location
Aberdeen, Scotland
Vehicles
GTS ST, Macan T
Country flag
My argument would be that driving smoothly at a constant speed is significantly more efficient than stop-and-go driving at the same speed. Brake recuperation preserves some of the kinetic energy lost but doesn’t offset the subsequent need for energy to get back up to speed.
Stop and go driving (i.e city driving) was never mentioned - the comparison is motorway & country / regular road.

City driving is the worst possible - EV / ICE - same issue - consumption rockets.

Have a play with the range calculator on the Porsche website (where my pictures came from) to get a baseline.
 

WuffvonTrips

Well-Known Member
First Name
Paul
Joined
Oct 24, 2021
Threads
35
Messages
1,818
Reaction score
2,058
Location
Up North
Vehicles
Taycan Turbo CT
Country flag
Something I've not noticed mentioned in this thread yet- slipstreaming/drafting could significantly reduce consumption assuming conditions allow for groups of vehicles maintaining constant speeds (something I've yet to have the luck and patience to experience despite the free-flowing Lancashire M'ways of @Ross's dreams 😁)
 

W1NGE

Well-Known Member
First Name
Adrian
Joined
Jan 11, 2021
Threads
31
Messages
8,733
Reaction score
5,213
Location
Aberdeen, Scotland
Vehicles
GTS ST, Macan T
Country flag
Something I've not noticed mentioned in this thread yet- slipstreaming/drafting could significantly reduce consumption assuming conditions allow for groups of vehicles maintaining constant speeds (something I've yet to have the luck and patience to experience despite the free-flowing Lancashire M'ways of @Ross's dreams 😁)
My OCD would kick in for fears of road rash / stone chips!
Sponsored

 
 




Top