Had an interesting chat with some dudes from Lucid test team

feye

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Lucid tried to license out their technology but no OEMs bit. I wonder why
Well, what is there to license? We know that the weight of an EV is not determined by the engine. The efficiency of an electric motor is anywhere between 93% and 97% (over 99% in very large motors). There are plenty of suppliers (Mahle, ZF, Continental, etc) producing motors for EVs without licensing but happy to produce and deliver... :cool:
 

Needsdecaf

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All these EVs are so efficient. On the other side, we know EPA numbers are garbage. They do not follow a standardized and verified test protocol. Therefore, the range numbers above are meaningless.

I need to know
  • battery net capacity
  • drag co-efficient
  • weight
  • tire size
Then practical range is clearly predictable.
What? They most certainly do follow a standardized and verified test protocol.

I agree that they are meaningless. But that's because the protocol they follow is adapted from the protocol, almost directly, that they use to test ICE vehicles. It's not representative of how EV's work. Telsa has figured out how to game that system pretty well, which is why their range always falls short.

The main problem is that you can either run all the tests (5 if I recall) and report those results. Or you can run fewer tests (2 or 3) and then apply a correction factor. Which is what Porsche does. Tesla does all 5 and gets better results. Clearly the correction factor method sucks because Porsche routinely blows by the EPA ratings and Tesla fails to meet theirs except under the most ideal situations.

But, the test is standardized and verified. It's just bad.

As to your list, that's a good starting point, but hardly will get you results. You need to also understand motor efficiency, drivetrain efficiency, inverter efficiency, regen strategy, etc. Tesla's EPA ratings are crap but they are among the most efficient EV's on the market when judging by pure Wh/mile consumption. That's not just down to the 4 things you mentioned. It's a whole host of small things.
 

manitou202

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The EPA ratings are a joke, but I have no doubt that Lucid will go much further on a charge than any other production EV today. Motor Trends drive through California was just a preview.

Now we can debate if the 400-500 miles of real world range is actually needed. For me the range the Taycan provides is plenty, and I would rather have the looks and handling of the Taycan. But if I wanted a luxury car for road trips, the Lucid would probably be a better option.

For many Lucid will be a more attractive option based on the range and storage. If anything it puts a lot of pressure on the Model S. The Lucid Grand Touring costs about the same as the Plaid, has 800hp instead of 1000hp, but will be plenty quick, will offer a much more premium interior, and will go an extra 100-150 miles. They are supposed to launch a base version which will directly compete with the Model S LR in terms of price, performance, and range, but again offer a much more premium interior.
 

porsche_coyote

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Spent some quality time chatting w/ a Lucid engineer this weekend at my local charging location (Hillsdale B of A in San Mateo, CA). He told me that they are definitely partnered with EA for charging network.

As impressed as I am by the power and efficiency, I just can't get excited for the looks of the car. The interior appears to be much nicer than any Tesla (he politely asked me not to take photos of it, and I was enjoying our conversation, so no pics), but that's about the nicest thing I can say about the appearance.
IMG_1102.jpeg
 

submatrix

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Spent some quality time chatting w/ a Lucid engineer this weekend at my local charging location (Hillsdale B of A in San Mateo, CA). He told me that they are definitely partnered with EA for charging network.

As impressed as I am by the power and efficiency, I just can't get excited for the looks of the car. The interior appears to be much nicer than any Tesla (he politely asked me not to take photos of it, and I was enjoying our conversation, so no pics), but that's about the nicest thing I can say about the appearance.
IMG_1102.jpeg
tbh, this is the first I've seen it in black, and it looks even worse than some of the lighter options. Just a formless blob.
 

feye

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Nobody reports the actual number that matters for that, CdA, they just report Cd, which tells you about nothing, unless you are comparing 2 cars with identical front surface area.
Front surface area is easy, just check the dimensions of the car in the spec sheet and do a little math. That's good enough for a real world range estimate...
 

feye

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But, the test is standardized and verified. It's just bad.
I admire your faith in institutions, despite Boeing MAX. However, a standardized test is useless, if you let the manufacturer perform it. And there is certainly nothing verified! Weren't there even tweets, where our vaporware master showed off, how he reports what he likes to the EPA?
 

Needsdecaf

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I admire your faith in institutions, despite Boeing MAX. However, a standardized test is useless, if you let the manufacturer perform it. And there is certainly nothing verified! Weren't there even tweets, where our vaporware master showed off, how he reports what he likes to the EPA?
I literally said the test was bad. I have no faith in the institutions. Porsche knew this, and they commissioned the AMCI report which they released the same day the EPA ratings came out.

i merely said the test is standardized. you Seem to enjoy twisting other people’s words to make your own point. I’m done.
 

AMcA

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Spent some quality time chatting w/ a Lucid engineer this weekend at my local charging location (Hillsdale B of A in San Mateo, CA). He told me that they are definitely partnered with EA for charging network.

As impressed as I am by the power and efficiency, I just can't get excited for the looks of the car. The interior appears to be much nicer than any Tesla (he politely asked me not to take photos of it, and I was enjoying our conversation, so no pics), but that's about the nicest thing I can say about the appearance.
IMG_1102.jpeg
Silly engineer - you can go to the mall in Scottsdale, AZ and see a Lucid interior. And I think they have other shopping mall locations.

Car is sitting there with the doors open, though they won't let you sit in it. The interior is very nicely done, though I won't go as far as to call it compelling. But I'd say it compares favorably to a MB or an Audi or a Cadillac.
 
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f1eng

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Front surface area is easy, just check the dimensions of the car in the spec sheet and do a little math. That's good enough for a real world range estimate...
Not really. A precise frontal are measurement is hard without a CAD model.
I spent a career measuring racing car aero and just stuck with drag force, since that is all that matters, so never measures a coefficient and didn't need frontal area which was all but impossible to measure when I started in the 1970s.

It is true though, just quoting a Cd is meaningless without frontal area.
In fact in the old days the Cd varied so little it was the frontal area which dominated the vehicle's drag.
SUVs are hateful :)
 

XLR82XS

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feye

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Can't agree more: 500 miles seems like overkill. You're lugging around 100s of pounds of battery that you need for the 2 road trips a year. Even for those, it seems like 300-400 miles should be plenty.
Hmm, cannot agree at all. Even when I do lots of short trips, I do not want to plug in every other day - unless fully automatic and always working!

I expect a bit more from a car, so I like range and reduced weight. Why pick the one over the other?
 

Fish Fingers

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Just reading up on the Lucid Air following the EPA rating win. They are getting high praise from the mainstream press today - who are also giving Tesla a black eye.

A few things I learned about it (others may already be aware).....

Backed by Saudi investment. Stock is listed.

The chief engineer is a Welshman who headed up the model S.

It runs on 900v architecture.

It is rammed with sensors for self driving. Cameras/Radar/Lidar as opposed to cameras only on Tesla.

I don't like the look of it, but imagine it's going to steal a huge chunk of the Model S market.
 
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