Have Porsche got the regen strategy (one pedal driving) right?

[im85288]

Agreed the acc is a solution however is not standard equipment

Sort off, but that’s relying on driver assistance tech. Even though Autopilot is standard on the Tesla (aka ACC) I still feel more in control with one pedal driving. Things like pulling off at the right time, closing gaps for angry drivers etc.

All Porsche need to do is provide the option, it was not there when I first got my model 3 but came via a software update. Fingers crossed Porsche can do that at some stage .

 

[Torv]

In a Tesla, is the brake pedal just for the friction brakes, and max regen is present when the accelerator is released (at a much lower power than max regen available in the Taycan)? I never thought about it before and never drove a Tesla, but that’s what I’m gathering. I just assumed everyone applied regen with the brake pedal like the Taycan.

No, the brakes in the Tesla also induce regen. The Tesla though has an inability to coast (unless you change a setting) like the Taycan. But most importantly, the Taycan’s regen via the brakes is twice as powerful as the regen available in a Tesla.

 

[Jhenson29]

No, the brakes in the Tesla also induce regen. The Tesla though has an inability to coast (unless you change a setting) like the Taycan. But most importantly, the Taycan’s regen via the brakes is twice as powerful as the regen available in a Tesla.

Just twice? 265kW for the Taycan. The numbers I can find for Model 3 and Model S are 75kW and 60kW respectively (so closer to 4x). But those are from Tesla forums. I didn’t find anything on Tesla’s site. Some of what I was looking at was posted in 2020, so I didn’t think it would be old, but maybe it is?

 

[Mike in CA]

This is a guess, but I suspect Porsche engineers couldn't bring themselves to implement a driving feature that is inherently less efficient.

At best, regeneration systems recapture about 70% of the energy that was used to accelerate a vehicle to a given speed in the first place. Also, once slowed down, the drivetrain is not 100% efficient in returning to that speed. So why slow the car down artificially when you let off the accelerator and sacrifice all of the inertia you've built up at a cost in stored energy?

I don't care for one pedal driving (had it on a BMW i3) , but I understand that some people like it and feel that it's convenient in some situations. I suppose if it could be implemented without sacrificing anything else from a cost, performance, or efficiency perspective it would be worth doing to keep those folks happy.

 

[submatrix]

This is a guess, but I suspect Porsche engineers couldn't bring themselves to implement a driving feature that is inherently less efficient.

At best, regeneration systems recapture about 70% of the energy that was used to accelerate a vehicle to a given speed in the first place. Also, once slowed down, the drivetrain is not 100% efficient in returning to that speed. So why slow the car down artificially when you let off the accelerator and sacrifice all of the inertia you've built up at a cost in stored energy?

I don't care for one pedal driving (had it on a BMW i3) , but I understand that some people like it and feel that it's convenient in some situations. I suppose if it could be implemented without sacrificing anything else from a cost, performance, or efficiency perspective it would be worth doing to keep those folks happy.

Well, they clearly did implement it, because there is a regen mode without the use of brakes. They just chose not to allow the user to make it stronger.

 

[Mike in CA]

Well, they clearly did implement it, because there is a regen mode without the use of brakes. They just chose not to allow the user to make it stronger.

And that's the point. It's quite mild and offers no where near the type of deceleration that would allow one-pedal driving which I assume is why the question was brought up in this thread in the first place.

We can quibble about the precise motivation (I said my theory was a guess) , but the fact remains that heavy regeneration whenever the accelerator is released is less efficient than allowing the vehicle to coast.

 

[Fedex77]

I like driving it like an ICE car - no need for 1 pedal for me

 

[Kingske]

The way Porsche has tuned its braking - with seamless transition between regen and friction - is perfect IMHO. Coming from an ICE car, I may be biased. Since the clutch pedal is gone for a couple of generations now, two pedals is not too taxing for the brain. Where I do think Porsche went too far in emulating legacy ICE characteristics is with its “auto-creep” when the car is stationary but engaged in D. That feels more like nostalgia without a purpose.

 

[grahamsimmonds]

No, the brakes in the Tesla also induce regen. The Tesla though has an inability to coast (unless you change a setting) like the Taycan. But most importantly, the Taycan’s regen via the brakes is twice as powerful as the regen available in a Tesla.

The brake pedal in a Tesla is friction only. When you take your foot off the accelerator that is maximum regen and the foot brake just adds friction to it. The Tesla has a maximum of 50 kW regen whereas the Taycan has a max of 265 kW, 5 times as much, most of which is applied by the foot brake.

 

[im85288]

Where I do think Porsche went too far in emulating legacy ICE characteristics is with its “auto-creep” when the car is stationary but engaged in D. That feels more like nostalgia without a purpose.

Yes that was something else that caught me out on my test drive, pulled up at traffic light/roundabouts applied the brakes to come to a standstill…foot off the brake then the car lurched forward. I didn’t work out until near the end that a hard press on the brake is needed to engage hold mode. Not very intuitive if you ask me.

 

[WilderAZ]

This is more of a philosophical issue than a technical one. Porsche defines its vehicles as drivers' cars and their owners largely see themselves as drivers. Whatever gets between the driver and the traditional driving experience is anathema. That being said, Porsche has adopted countless technologies to aid the driver and provide safer, more responsive, and comfortable performance vehicles. With their SUVs (which far outsell saloons in the US) they have also expanded their market to suburban mothers. To a large extent computer technology allows manufacturers to offer all things to all people: near self-driving, comfort modes, sport modes, drift modes, etc. Thus the question is how offering the _option_ for some variation of one-foot driving might impact the brand and sales. Personally, I'd like to have the option especially given where I live, how I use my vehicles, and the belief that it would be well designed and integrated. I suspect that those who object to this option perceive it more as a dilution of brand and self image than something that will impact their actual driving experience.

 

[Mike in CA]

I suspect that those who object to this option perceive it more as a dilution of brand and self image than something that will impact their actual driving experience.

That may be true with some people, but my opinion is based on driving a BMW i3 for 3 years which also had heavy regeneration when lifting the accelerator. My objection to one pedal driving isn't philosophical; it does impact my actual driving experience negatively. TEHO.

Where I do think Porsche went too far in emulating legacy ICE characteristics is with its “auto-creep” when the car is stationary but engaged in D. That feels more like nostalgia without a purpose.

My wife's e-Tron doesn't creep. When parking or in a tight spot where small movements are required I have to lightly feather the accelerator to get the car to move. With the Taycan, which does creep, I can instead modulate the brake. I find modulating the brake to be more precise than feathering the accelerator in these situations and if there is a miscalculation my foot is already on the brake pedal ready to stop. Just my subjective $.02.

 

[struther]

I really like the Taycan implementation of regen, braking and even the creep. It feels so natural for me coming from ICE cars. The Taycan drives and reacts as expected- the transition was easy and the car is absolute joy to drive. I find the creep very useful and can use the HOLD if necessary.

However, I do believe they could offer these as options. Based on this forum alone, many drivers are coming from other EVs and have a different expectation. As mentioned here, it is just software- why not add the option? Even I may try it.

 

[jheard]

Thought it would be interesting to hear opinions on the Taycan regeneration strategy.

Having been used to driving a Tesla I find that one pedal driving is near enough the ultimate in convenience especially in city traffic. It was the one thing I really missed on my test drive of the Taycan…almost to the point of having an overworked right foot by the amount of times I had to keep shifting it onto the brake pedal then back to the accelerator.

I really hope they reconsider this by at least giving the option (maybe via a software update).

How do others feel on this…

Having had a Tesla for nearly 4 years and the Taycan for 10 months, I prefer the Taycan regen, it is a lot smoother and less jerky for passengers. Also on full regen, it is like having strong engine braking so works well in traffic once your used to it. Also works well on fast country roads as you approach bends.

 

[igad]

I don't think the 'A' regen is given enough credit. I think the A could be for 'adaptive' rather than the generic auto ?

With 'A' regen for me turned on the car will coast when it's clear to coast, then regen only kicks in (and so the car slows down) when the car detects upcoming cars/traffic.

Not sure if this is the case only because I have ACC optioned but as far as I am concerned this is by far a superior implementation !

It would be wasteful and an unnatural driving experience if aggressive regen kicked in every time i lifted my foot....