Heckled at the EA Charger in Amarillo TX

[tigerbalm]

You could always start really fucking with their heads and ask "If they invented a laser gun for personal use that had less recoil, killed people more quickly, was quieter, and in more or less the same form as a handgun, but since it worked on electricity you'd have to keep it charged, would you buy one?"

Isn't that basically what Reagan told the Soviets he had !?!

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[GreggT]

Just not a lot of people who understand anything beyond the garbage presented to them on Fox News.

"Garbage" .....well, try to open up your brain and......think.

 

[BigV]

So I'm working my way back home from my road trip, and I'm charging fairly late at night when a guy running the street sweeper in the Sam's Club parking lot pulled up.

"If that thing took gas you'd be done already!"

I was on a short charge hop so I countered that I was almost done and had only been here 6 minutes.
He then pivoted to his next anti-EV talking point.

"Better hope that thing doesn't catch on fire!"

At this point I realize he was just one of those Facebook trolls in real life, so I asked if he just hated EVs, and he agreed that he did.

"I just don't like what they're doin, jackin up the gas prices to try and force people into EVs."

I disengaged at that point because there was no point trying to talk to someone this ignorant.

Indeed, probably wouldn’t have worked to try to engage him in a discussion on macro economics, and the fact that big oil companies, particularly in his state, are making record profits EXPORTING their product on the international market. Of course there’s always the government subsidies big oil has been receiving To ensure they can maintain production…but I digress. Nana is correct, “you can’t fix stupid.”

 

[Jrkennedy37]

Heavy sigh..................................... I have a fried that recently said that EV production should be halted until the grid is built up, otherwise we will all be out of electricity..................... I responded by saying, 'Sometimes you do have to put the cart before the horse'. Yes, yes, we have all heard that 'the grid' is having a difficult time keeping up with the current heat wave, and here in Texas we had our own set of special problems a few winters ago. Sometimes it does take difficult events like a grid failure for the power companies and the regulators/legislators to wake up/face up to the increase in demand that is not going to go away.

You’re not the only one, especially here in Texas. What I’ve heard from people who clearly consume different media and information than me:
1. The grid can’t handle so many electric cars. Especially here in Texas where we already have grid issues.
2. Your neighbors can’t get electric cars or else you’ll have to replace the power lines and transformers in your neighborhood.
3. Will that battery even last for 100.000 miles?
4. How much is it going to cost you when the battery needs to be replaced?
5. What will you do when we have a blackout again?
6. But don’t you need a special, expensive new plug in your house to charge it?
7. My friend’s daughter told her that teslas catch on fire and you shouldn’t park electric cars in your garage
8. I hope it works out for you…

 

[wurzitup]

Heavy sigh..................................... I have a fried that recently said that EV production should be halted until the grid is built up, otherwise we will all be out of electricity..................... I responded by saying, 'Sometimes you do have to put the cart before the horse'. Yes, yes, we have all heard that 'the grid' is having a difficult time keeping up with the current heat wave, and here in Texas we had our own set of special problems a few winters ago. Sometimes it does take difficult events like a grid failure for the power companies and the regulators/legislators to wake up/face up to the increase in demand that is not going to go away.

Perhaps we should stop selling ICE cars until the planet catches up and stops warming........

 

[Wakesurfer]

You’re not the only one, especially here in Texas. What I’ve heard from people who clearly consume different media and information than me:
1. The grid can’t handle so many electric cars. Especially here in Texas where we already have grid issues.
2. Your neighbors can’t get electric cars or else you’ll have to replace the power lines and transformers in your neighborhood.
3. Will that battery even last for 100.000 miles?
4. How much is it going to cost you when the battery needs to be replaced?
5. What will you do when we have a blackout again?
6. But don’t you need a special, expensive new plug in your house to charge it?
7. My friend’s daughter told her that teslas catch on fire and you shouldn’t park electric cars in your garage
8. I hope it works out for you…

Sigh..........................I have heard the same and it is always from someone that has completed little to zero research. I love #2...................wouldn't the electric draw in my neighborhood now mean that people cannot run their electric clothes dryers at that same time???? To say nothing about air conditioners???? But just add one EV and the whole damn electric system blows up in my neighborhood.

No thought process or logic to any of the 'objections'. I am guessing that they said the same decades ago when the first motorized vehicles hit the streets.........What happens when you run out of fuel; don't those things get stuck in the ruts; how long is that motor going to last; what happens when 'they' quiet making fuel; it will NEVER replace the horse and buggy. On and on and on. Sigh..........

 

[Wakesurfer]

"Garbage" .....well, try to open up your brain and......think.

Curly said it best - "I tried to think and nottin' happened'.

 

[Marcad80]

Years ago someone asked me if I could drive my Tesla in rain……

Innocent enough question I guess…

thank goodness for the rubber tires..

 

[whitex]

Contrary to popular belief... Gas prices are "not set by a dial in the oval office." Still my favorite statement of the year.

... or set by a majority vote of politicians or even voters. It makes me laugh whenever I hear people who think anything can be changed/solved by just getting enough votes for it.

 

[whitex]

Heavy sigh..................................... I have a fried that recently said that EV production should be halted until the grid is built up, otherwise we will all be out of electricity..................... I responded by saying, 'Sometimes you do have to put the cart before the horse'. Yes, yes, we have all heard that 'the grid' is having a difficult time keeping up with the current heat wave, and here in Texas we had our own set of special problems a few winters ago. Sometimes it does take difficult events like a grid failure for the power companies and the regulators/legislators to wake up/face up to the increase in demand that is not going to go away.

With vehicle-to-grid technologies, EV's could actually be a stabilizing factor for the grids. EV's are not quite there, but it's coming and the potential is great. Even if your vehicle were to simply run your whole house when needed (effectively cutting your house of the grid to help balance it) it would be a giant step in that direction. If the power can be shared between homes (i.e. vehicles feed power to the grid on demand), the grid's generation peaks can be flattened by a lot.

 

[whitex]

You’re not the only one, especially here in Texas. What I’ve heard from people who clearly consume different media and information than me:
1. The grid can’t handle so many electric cars. Especially here in Texas where we already have grid issues.
2. Your neighbors can’t get electric cars or else you’ll have to replace the power lines and transformers in your neighborhood.
3. Will that battery even last for 100.000 miles?
4. How much is it going to cost you when the battery needs to be replaced?
5. What will you do when we have a blackout again?
6. But don’t you need a special, expensive new plug in your house to charge it?
7. My friend’s daughter told her that teslas catch on fire and you shouldn’t park electric cars in your garage
8. I hope it works out for you…

I am all for EV's, have been driving them exclusively since 2013 (primarily because I like the way they drive and charging at home, saving the planet is secondary), but to be fair, many of the points above should be considered, rather than waived off as crazy. Too many people today just call the other side crazy and don't even consider the other side questions/arguments.

1. The grid can’t handle so many electric cars. Especially here in Texas where we already have grid issues.

The utilities in Texas do already offer incentives for people to install HVAC thermostats on which they can turn up the target temperature or plaid shut off your AC when the grid is peaking. AC takes 5-10x less power than an AV and often is not on continuously for 8 hours at a time. So, if AC's make a difference to the grid, EV's definitely will. Of course ev-to-grid technology would actually stabilize the grid, but it's not quite ready for prime time yet.

2. Your neighbors can’t get electric cars or else you’ll have to replace the power lines and transformers in your neighborhood.

There may be neighborhoods which would not be able to handle it if everyone got EV's and charged whenever they want. When they were built decades ago, the grid was not designed for most households to draw 10-40KW continuously for hours at a time. I know someone who lives in a neighborhood where during really hot days, they have brownouts or even blackouts because of all the AC's which run overtime. When both our EV's are charging simultaneously, they can pull up to 31KW combined (just for cars), add to that the rest of the home (AC's, etc) and out house has drawn 40KW during peaks. I am almost certain if every house on the block would pull 40KW continuously, there would be a blackout. I actually crank down the charge rates on our EV's to 21KW max, unless I really have to charge quick. There are technologies which can mitigate this, some of which people have been working on for years now, but most of them are not deployed yet - those technologies allow the utility to control charging power used for EV charging dynamically.

3. Will that battery even last for 100.000 miles?

This is a very good question to ask. While most Tesla's for example reach 100K miles, most Nissan Leaf's, especially the early ones, did not last so well. A good indicator, and a hedge against failire, is how long he batteries will last is the warranty. Notice even Tesla got rid of unlimited miles, 8 year warranty for their batteries (which protect against failure and only guarantee 70% of original capacity).

4. How much is it going to cost you when the battery needs to be replaced?

Why would you say it's crazy to ask this? This is absolutely a valid question. EV batteries are not cheap. Sure, maybe for someone who buys a Taycan a $25K+ battery swap doesn't seem like a huge deal, they probably don't even plan to own the car past the battery warranty, but for a lot of people the cost of the EV battery is higher than a cost of inexpensive new ICE car, so of course they will say that they don't want to buy used EV's without battery warranty - a new ICE is a much better value proposition if your budget is limited and your goal is transportation.

5. What will you do when we have a blackout again?

Also a valid question. If there is a prolonged blackout, how are you planning to fuel your Taycan? Sure you can argue if there is no electricity the gas pumps will also dry out, but I actually lived through a blackout in Seattle area where parts of the state, including Microsoft home town Redmond, were out of power for as long as 3 days. My home was only out for about 10 hrs, but had family and friends who were without power for 3 days. After that, given we had no more ICE cars left, I installed a whole house generator which can charge our EV's if needed (slower than when on grid, but at least can charge overnight).

6. But don’t you need a special, expensive new plug in your house to charge it?

I installed my own NEMA 14-50, it costed me more in required state inspection (~$100) than the parts for the job. BUT, I have friends who cannot do their own electrical. Calling around different electricians, they were unable to find anyone who would install it under $2,000 (and last one was over a year ago, today probably more). Again, compared to a cost of a Taycan, may not be significant, but for someone who wants to buy a used car for $20K, a significant cost. Yes, I get that the electricians are gauging, they learned NEMA 14-50 in a garage is for an EV (Seattle area has a ton of Teslas) and decided it's a great opportunity to make money, but the reality is it's next to impossible to find an electrician around here anymore who will install a NEMA 14-50 in the garage for less. So no surprise, people think of this as a $2K+ plug. Is a $2000 plus considered expensive, well, I guess that depends on for whom, but I bet majority of Americans would consider it an expensive plug.

7. My friend’s daughter told her that teslas catch on fire and you shouldn’t park electric cars in your garage

That's just FUD. Yes, there was a Tesla, perhaps few which caught on fire, but ICE cars catch on fire too. There was the highly publicized Chevy Bolt issue, where customers were in fact told not to park the cars anywhere near residences for over a year while the manufacturer was trying to figure out how to fix a problem which did catch a bunch of them on fire. Of course when people hear than, they might remember "EV" rather than "Chevy Bolt", but that's just human nature.

Bottom line, rather than roll your eyes and make dismissing sighing noises at people who make these arguments, address them - have a calm and logical conversation. Dismissing their concerns, which as you can see can be valid, is just entrenching them in the opinion that EV fans are a crazy cult of fanboys who don't listen to reason.

 

[ejcintr]

2

I am all for EV's, have been driving them exclusively since 2013 (primarily because I like the way they drive and charging at home, saving the planet is secondary), but to be fair, many of the points above should be considered, rather than waived off as crazy. Too many people today just call the other side crazy and don't even consider the other side questions/arguments.


The utilities in Texas do already offer incentives for people to install HVAC thermostats on which they can turn up the target temperature or plaid shut off your AC when the grid is peaking. AC takes 5-10x less power than an AV and often is not on continuously for 8 hours at a time. So, if AC's make a difference to the grid, EV's definitely will. Of course ev-to-grid technology would actually stabilize the grid, but it's not quite ready for prime time yet.


There may be neighborhoods which would not be able to handle it if everyone got EV's and charged whenever they want. When they were built decades ago, the grid was not designed for most households to draw 10-40KW continuously for hours at a time. I know someone who lives in a neighborhood where during really hot days, they have brownouts or even blackouts because of all the AC's which run overtime. When both our EV's are charging simultaneously, they can pull up to 31KW combined (just for cars), add to that the rest of the home (AC's, etc) and out house has drawn 40KW during peaks. I am almost certain if every house on the block would pull 40KW continuously, there would be a blackout. I actually crank down the charge rates on our EV's to 21KW max, unless I really have to charge quick. There are technologies which can mitigate this, some of which people have been working on for years now, but most of them are not deployed yet - those technologies allow the utility to control charging power used for EV charging dynamically.


This is a very good question to ask. While most Tesla's for example reach 100K miles, most Nissan Leaf's, especially the early ones, did not last so well. A good indicator, and a hedge against failire, is how long he batteries will last is the warranty. Notice even Tesla got rid of unlimited miles, 8 year warranty for their batteries (which protect against failure and only guarantee 70% of original capacity).


Why would you say it's crazy to ask this? This is absolutely a valid question. EV batteries are not cheap. Sure, maybe for someone who buys a Taycan a $25K+ battery swap doesn't seem like a huge deal, they probably don't even plan to own the car past the battery warranty, but for a lot of people the cost of the EV battery is higher than a cost of inexpensive new ICE car, so of course they will say that they don't want to buy used EV's without battery warranty - a new ICE is a much better value proposition if your budget is limited and your goal is transportation.


Also a valid question. If there is a prolonged blackout, how are you planning to fuel your Taycan? Sure you can argue if there is no electricity the gas pumps will also dry out, but I actually lived through a blackout in Seattle area where parts of the state, including Microsoft home town Redmond, were out of power for as long as 3 days. My home was only out for about 10 hrs, but had family and friends who were without power for 3 days. After that, given we had no more ICE cars left, I installed a whole house generator which can charge our EV's if needed (slower than when on grid, but at least can charge overnight).


I installed my own NEMA 14-50, it costed me more in required state inspection (~$100) than the parts for the job. BUT, I have friends who cannot do their own electrical. Calling around different electricians, they were unable to find anyone who would install it under $2,000 (and last one was over a year ago, today probably more). Again, compared to a cost of a Taycan, may not be significant, but for someone who wants to buy a used car for $20K, a significant cost. Yes, I get that the electricians are gauging, they learned NEMA 14-50 in a garage is for an EV (Seattle area has a ton of Teslas) and decided it's a great opportunity to make money, but the reality is it's next to impossible to find an electrician around here anymore who will install a NEMA 14-50 in the garage for less. So no surprise, people think of this as a $2K+ plug.


That's just FUD. Yes, there was a Tesla, perhaps few which caught on fire, but ICE cars catch on fire too. There was the highly publicized Chevy Bolt issue, where customers were in fact told not to park the cars anywhere near residences for over a year while the manufacturer was trying to figure out how to fix a problem which did catch a bunch of them on fire. Of course when people hear than, they might remember "EV" rather than "Chevy Bolt", but that's just human nature.

Bottom line, rather than roll your eyes and make dismissing sighing noises at people who make these arguments, address them. Dismissing their concerns, which as you can see can be valid, is just entrenching them in the opinion that EV fans are a crazy cult of fanboys who don't listen to reason.

2 grand for one nema 14-50? I live in cali and had one installed in both my tahoe house and one in the bay area - combined barely more than a grand... usually california is a huge bump compared to the rest of the US- what the heck are they doing in the PNW?

 

[whitex]

2 grand for one nema 14-50? I live in cali and had one installed in both my tahoe house and one in the bay area - combined barely more than a grand... usually california is a huge bump compared to the rest of the US- what the heck are the doing in the PNW?

In western WA (Seattle and surrounding cities) you cannot swing a proverbial dead cat without hitting a Tesla. Electricians figured it out real quick that if you can afford a Tesla, you can afford a $2K plug for it. Even when I was installing mine (2013), I did the quote through Tesla and their certified partner program - it came back $2,400, even though back then I could have easily found an electrician willing to do the same for $500 (I did it myself for less than $200, $100 being a mandated state inspection fee). Today, all the electricians know that a 240V garage plug is for an EV and charge accordingly. They even got wise of people asking for a "welder plug" in the garage, which reportedly worked for a short while to get the installation at a fraction of a cost. Everyone wants to cash in on the EV craze

PS> Prior to COVID-19, I used to regularly travel to the Bay Area and while there are a lot of Teslas, there are also a lot of other EV's. This means in CA you guys have a greater diversity of EV's, including cheaper EV's only available only in CA as compliance cars. This is probably a reason why CA electricians cannot charge as much for an EV charger plug, because for a Chevy Spark buyer $2K would be too much to pay, so there are electricians who will do it for less.

 

[Wakesurfer]

I am all for EV's, have been driving them exclusively since 2013 (primarily because I like the way they drive and charging at home, saving the planet is secondary), but to be fair, many of the points above should be considered, rather than waived off as crazy. Too many people today just call the other side crazy and don't even consider the other side questions/arguments.


The utilities in Texas do already offer incentives for people to install HVAC thermostats on which they can turn up the target temperature or plaid shut off your AC when the grid is peaking. AC takes 5-10x less power than an AV and often is not on continuously for 8 hours at a time. So, if AC's make a difference to the grid, EV's definitely will. Of course ev-to-grid technology would actually stabilize the grid, but it's not quite ready for prime time yet.


There may be neighborhoods which would not be able to handle it if everyone got EV's and charged whenever they want. When they were built decades ago, the grid was not designed for most households to draw 10-40KW continuously for hours at a time. I know someone who lives in a neighborhood where during really hot days, they have brownouts or even blackouts because of all the AC's which run overtime. When both our EV's are charging simultaneously, they can pull up to 31KW combined (just for cars), add to that the rest of the home (AC's, etc) and out house has drawn 40KW during peaks. I am almost certain if every house on the block would pull 40KW continuously, there would be a blackout. I actually crank down the charge rates on our EV's to 21KW max, unless I really have to charge quick. There are technologies which can mitigate this, some of which people have been working on for years now, but most of them are not deployed yet - those technologies allow the utility to control charging power used for EV charging dynamically.


This is a very good question to ask. While most Tesla's for example reach 100K miles, most Nissan Leaf's, especially the early ones, did not last so well. A good indicator, and a hedge against failire, is how long he batteries will last is the warranty. Notice even Tesla got rid of unlimited miles, 8 year warranty for their batteries (which protect against failure and only guarantee 70% of original capacity).


Why would you say it's crazy to ask this? This is absolutely a valid question. EV batteries are not cheap. Sure, maybe for someone who buys a Taycan a $25K+ battery swap doesn't seem like a huge deal, they probably don't even plan to own the car past the battery warranty, but for a lot of people the cost of the EV battery is higher than a cost of inexpensive new ICE car, so of course they will say that they don't want to buy used EV's without battery warranty - a new ICE is a much better value proposition if your budget is limited and your goal is transportation.


Also a valid question. If there is a prolonged blackout, how are you planning to fuel your Taycan? Sure you can argue if there is no electricity the gas pumps will also dry out, but I actually lived through a blackout in Seattle area where parts of the state, including Microsoft home town Redmond, were out of power for as long as 3 days. My home was only out for about 10 hrs, but had family and friends who were without power for 3 days. After that, given we had no more ICE cars left, I installed a whole house generator which can charge our EV's if needed (slower than when on grid, but at least can charge overnight).


I installed my own NEMA 14-50, it costed me more in required state inspection (~$100) than the parts for the job. BUT, I have friends who cannot do their own electrical. Calling around different electricians, they were unable to find anyone who would install it under $2,000 (and last one was over a year ago, today probably more). Again, compared to a cost of a Taycan, may not be significant, but for someone who wants to buy a used car for $20K, a significant cost. Yes, I get that the electricians are gauging, they learned NEMA 14-50 in a garage is for an EV (Seattle area has a ton of Teslas) and decided it's a great opportunity to make money, but the reality is it's next to impossible to find an electrician around here anymore who will install a NEMA 14-50 in the garage for less. So no surprise, people think of this as a $2K+ plug. Is a $2000 plus considered expensive, well, I guess that depends on for whom, but I bet majority of Americans would consider it an expensive plug.


That's just FUD. Yes, there was a Tesla, perhaps few which caught on fire, but ICE cars catch on fire too. There was the highly publicized Chevy Bolt issue, where customers were in fact told not to park the cars anywhere near residences for over a year while the manufacturer was trying to figure out how to fix a problem which did catch a bunch of them on fire. Of course when people hear than, they might remember "EV" rather than "Chevy Bolt", but that's just human nature.

Bottom line, rather than roll your eyes and make dismissing sighing noises at people who make these arguments, address them - have a calm and logical conversation. Dismissing their concerns, which as you can see can be valid, is just entrenching them in the opinion that EV fans are a crazy cult of fanboys who don't listen to reason.

Not worth my time or effort. This would be nothing more than an exercise in frustration. I will let the market speak for itself - every auto manufacturer is headed down the path of EVs and the world will change right in front of their eyes as they sit on the sidelines.

 

[DanielCA92563]

Seems like EVs would lower gasoline prices since they would be cutting back on the demand for oil much like covid did.

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