How exactly does the four-wheel drive system work? Sliding on snow.

[Oink]

Driving in Normal mode I see mainly the back wheels being used unless I'm going uphill and the car needs traction. There's a lot of frozen snow here in Bergen, Norway, and I kept having the rear slide out in the parking lot while turning. Is there no true AWD or am I just too accustomed to Audis quattro system?

Traction control has never been turned off so that's not it.

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[Jancha]

Driving in Normal mode I see mainly the back wheels being used unless I'm going uphill and the car needs traction. There's a lot of frozen snow here in Bergen, Norway, and I kept having the rear slide out in the parking lot while turning. Is there no true AWD or am I just too accustomed to Audis quattro system?

Traction control has never been turned off so that's not it.

had first snow yesterday, it is clearly a more rear biased drive. What I noticed is that it would let rear slide if the steering wheel is turned. When you straighten it, front kicks in to stop the slide and pull you out.

 

[KensingtonPark]

Is this happening with snow or all-season tires? Very curious, since I haven't purchased my snow tires yet. Putting it off to decide if I will just not drive the car for the one month or so that I would need them here.

 

[evanevery]

As I mentioned HERE, the Taycan is only marginally RWD biased in the snow (and you have to completely turn off the Stability mode to achieve this):

"As an AWD vehicle it has a tendency to transition pretty quickly from a RWD drift into a 4WD slide once you lose traction. You can, however, modulate the power to maintain steering while drifting if you are reasonably precise with your throttle input."

I find the car to actually be really stable and have great traction in the snow (if that is what you are looking for). If you don't turn off the Stability Control there is simply no way to properly drift the car in a controllable manner. You can throw it into a corner with abandon but then... Physics Wins!

Do you have proper winter tires on your car? The physics of what you are asking of your car may simply exceed its ability to maintain traction...

 

[Oink]

had first snow yesterday, it is clearly a more rear biased drive. What I noticed is that it would let rear slide if the steering wheel is turned. When you straighten it, front kicks in to stop the slide and pull you out.

Exactly my experience.

Is this happening with snow or all-season tires? Very curious, since I haven't purchased my snow tires yet. Putting it off to decide if I will just not drive the car for the one month or so that I would need them here.

Haha, forgive me but I had to laugh. Of course snow tires. I'm in Norway. ?

As I mentioned HERE, the Taycan is only marginally RWD biased in the snow (and you have to completely turn off the Stability mode to achieve this):

"As an AWD vehicle it has a tendency to transition pretty quickly from a RWD drift into a 4WD slide once you lose traction. You can, however, modulate the power to maintain steering while drifting if you are reasonably precise with your throttle input."

I find the car to actually be really stable and have great traction in the snow (if that is what you are looking for). If you don't turn off the Stability Control there is simply no way to properly drift the car in a controllable manner. You can throw it into a corner with abandon but then... Physics Wins...

Do you have proper winter tires on your car? The physics of what you are asking of your car may simply exceed its ability to achieve traction...

See reply above about winter tires. Haha.

It's nowhere near as stable as our previous A8. Mind you I've only had this happen at marginally low speeds (30kmh and lower) as the roads are heavily salted so only backroads and parking spots are snowed over (which freeze at night since it hit -12c last night). I wonder if it will behave better at higher speeds by engaging the front more. I sure as shit ain't testin' that on backroads. ?

I must admit though -- it's quite fun to slide the back out at 20km/h. An e-up came up to me at 4am as I was messing with my parking cameras that are going haywire, and I just went "alright", put it in D, 45 degree turn and mashed the throttle for a 180 slide and away I went.

 

[arijaycomet]

Coming from more VW/Audi (Haldex/Quattro) than any other cars, I fully understand what you are saying @Oink -- but I don't think it is a lack of traction. What I think you are simply feeling is a more liberal traction control system. With the Porsche it allows you to steer both with the wheel, and with a bit of throttle. What you describe as "tail happy" is actually the car providing less intrusion. At least, that is my take--

Just before XMAS we had a big snow storm here in Cleveland, Ohio USA. I'm not even on snow tires just the all-season tires that came on the car. And I found the traction quite good. Compared to my wife's Tesla model Y with similar all season tires; that car needed snow tires (so we bought some). Our winter is not as bad as yours, but the Porsche seemed to be quite competent IMO.

Having owned 18 different Audi vehicles (all with Quattro) and 26 different VW vehicles (8+ of them with Haldex AWD) ... my findings are that the Quattro system is more neutral. Even on dry pavement, Quattro tends to have more understeer dialed into the cars. (exception being the Audi TT before they "spoiled" it in the gen1 cars). Porsche on the other hand tends to favor a slight dip towards oversteer, especially with judicious throttle inputs. I believe that is what you're feeling here. I suspect if you throttle "into" the slip with minor steering input you'll find the car still "bites and goes" -- but the sensation is more playful compared to the more tame "relaxed" Quattro experience.

(that's my two cents, anyhow)

 

[Oink]

Coming from more VW/Audi (Haldex/Quattro) than any other cars, I fully understand what you are saying @Oink -- but I don't think it is a lack of traction. What I think you are simply feeling is a more liberal traction control system. With the Porsche it allows you to steer both with the wheel, and with a bit of throttle. What you describe as "tail happy" is actually the car providing less intrusion. At least, that is my take--

Just before XMAS we had a big snow storm here in Cleveland, Ohio USA. I'm not even on snow tires just the all-season tires that came on the car. And I found the traction quite good. Compared to my wife's Tesla model Y with similar all season tires; that car needed snow tires (so we bought some). Our winter is not as bad as yours, but the Porsche seemed to be quite competent IMO.

Having owned 18 different Audi vehicles (all with Quattro) and 26 different VW vehicles (8+ of them with Haldex AWD) ... my findings are that the Quattro system is more neutral. Even on dry pavement, Quattro tends to have more understeer dialed into the cars. (exception being the Audi TT before they "spoiled" it in the gen1 cars). Porsche on the other hand tends to favor a slight dip towards oversteer, especially with judicious throttle inputs. I believe that is what you're feeling here. I suspect if you throttle "into" the slip with minor steering input you'll find the car still "bites and goes" -- but the sensation is more playful compared to the more tame "relaxed" Quattro experience.

(that's my two cents, anyhow)

Well said. I read @H@wk's post of his winter experience here in Norway and I guess it works just fine. I don't dislike the feeling. It's just a new experience and wanted to know more about it. I'm used to chucking a big 4.2 V8 Diesel w/ a stage 2 (450/950nm) into corners without worrying about anything sliding around.

Btw Audis understeer due to them having the motor further in the front over the front axle.

 

[evanevery]

...What I think you are simply feeling is a more liberal traction control system. With the Porsche it allows you to steer both with the wheel, and with a bit of throttle...

For me, this only appears to be the case if I turn Stability Control OFF. I can't get a decent drift in the snow unless I do this. I won't say the car is "too intrusive" with stability enabled (as that is what it is for). I find the car "dead" stable with the Stability Control ON. I'm just happy I can turn it off when "necessary"... ;-)

For what its worth, there is no way to turn off the Stability Control in My Model-X. There is no way to get a good drift going in it at all...

 

[Oink]

Yeah, no chance I ever turn off stability control. Especially since the compacted, frosted snow is essentially like ice. Maybe on a track. Haha.

 

[arijaycomet]

@Oink -- having played around with the sway bars, and adjustable dampers, there are ways to compensate for the "poor engine/axle placement" on an Audi -- but it does basically require over-stiffening one end and over-softening the other; but it can make the cars more fun at a road course!

@evanevery -- what tires are you running on your car? on xmas-eve I was able to get the car quite "loose" in a parking lot, on the 20" wheels with the included all season tires, but you're right in that it could not be sustained. I didn't bother turning off traction control, only because I ran out of time (a parking lot security guard started giving me side-eye so I left haha)

PS: You're right that Tesla greatly limits the traction options. Even worse, the new cars no longer have Regen options. Friends of ours just picked up a model Y and they can't turn "down" the automatic recuperation settings. They are not pleased by this. Tesla seems to think like apple ("you can have it any way you want, so long as its our way") LOL

 

[Oink]

PS: You're right that Tesla greatly limits the traction options. Even worse, the new cars no longer have Regen options. Friends of ours just picked up a model Y and they can't turn "down" the automatic recuperation settings. They are not pleased by this. Tesla seems to think like apple ("you can have it any way you want, so long as its our way") LOL

At least they give software updates extremely often and add new features all the time (read up on how sentry mode/dashcam came about for example). Not to mention finding ways to get more range out of the batteries over time (and OTA!).

Too bad Porsche can't do software worth shit. Maybe I should apply as a programmer... ? Would be cool to have a working Connect app.

 

[arijaycomet]

At least they give software updates extremely often and add new features all the time (read up on how sentry mode/dashcam came about for example). Not to mention finding ways to get more range out of the batteries over time (and OTA!).

Too bad Porsche can't do software worth shit. Maybe I should apply as a programmer... ? Would be cool to have a working Connect app.

Ha! Yes totally agree. We've also owned 11 Tesla products and we still have my wife's model Y. Just did an 1,800+ mile trip for New Years. I'd have taken the Taycan but there was a big gap with no chargers. We would have had to spend a night at a hotel in both directions. So we took the Tesla.

But.... Taycan 2021 is like Tesla 2016. Look at how far Tesla has grown in 5 years. Also, Tesla is trying to sell 500,000+ cars per year. Porsche is happy with 20,000 Taycan last year. They aren't trying to make as many cars. Still, I think, in time, we'll see the Taycan become better in the "software" side -- at least I really really hope so!

 

[Oink]

Ha! Yes totally agree. We've also owned 11 Tesla products and we still have my wife's model Y. Just did an 1,800+ mile trip for New Years. I'd have taken the Taycan but there was a big gap with no chargers. We would have had to spend a night at a hotel in both directions. So we took the Tesla.

But.... Taycan 2021 is like Tesla 2016. Look at how far Tesla has grown in 5 years. Also, Tesla is trying to sell 500,000+ cars per year. Porsche is happy with 20,000 Taycan last year. They aren't trying to make as many cars. Still, I think, in time, we'll see the Taycan become better in the "software" side -- at least I really really hope so!

Lucky!

I do fear that they won't offer anything new via FoD (hate these new micro transactions... EA says hello) and will only offer a software update or two. Stuck in the old ways of just releasing a new car with all the new software features.

Hey at least I could buy Electric Sport Sound if I hadn't already specced it. Haha.

EDIT: I'm saying all this because Tesla is as much a software company as they are hardware. Porsche -- ehh, still believe they hire outside companies to make their stuff. Or some managers 16 year old nephew.

 

[arijaycomet]

@Oink -- My car doesn't have the sport sound, but no way I'm paying cash for that now after the fact. And from what I've read the trip planner range manager thing is a waste $$ -- I've had enough EV experience to "route myself" thank you very much LOL

I did just buy that $125 adapter off Amazon, to add wireless CarPlay (have had it 24 hours, it works ok so far). I know there are rumors a software update -may- add that in future, but like you said, I am not going to hold my breathe. But -- don't feel bad. Porsche added new features after the car was just 1 year old --

My wife bought her Model Y 4 months ago. Since then, they have changed so much! Dual pane glass. Auto dimming side mirrors. Heated steering. And soon, interior update to match the new model 3 interior. So at least Porsche major changes are just 1x per year. Tesla, each week is something new

 

[evanevery]

Yeah, no chance I ever turn off stability control. Especially since the compacted, frosted snow is essentially like ice. Maybe on a track. Haha.

What, no shopping malls or large corporate parking lots in your area?

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