Oink

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Now someone dyno the 4 and 4S in their two configurations.

People always doing it with the biggest brothers. 😴 Arguably the least sold version of the car.
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WuffvonTrips

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Now someone dyno the 4 and 4S in their two configurations.

People always doing it with the biggest brothers. 😴 Arguably the least sold version of the car.

...it also has an interesting look underneath the vehicle.
 

WuffvonTrips

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Also this one which I posted elsewhere on this forum a while back but can't now find that post...
 

Gubbjaevel

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There, fixed it.

TS:
Porsche Taycan How much HP does a Turbo S REALLY have? Dyno Run Video 1653213617551

715 HP continous, torque peaked 890 Nm. (This is obvs. non-LC)

4S (1):
Porsche Taycan How much HP does a Turbo S REALLY have? Dyno Run Video 1653213556123


4S (2):
Porsche Taycan How much HP does a Turbo S REALLY have? Dyno Run Video 1653213743825

Quote: "Horsepower was somewhere close to 450, right through the run, and torque peaked around 600"
 
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Gubbjaevel

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Now I'm curious what a Taycan Turbo generates in terms of power.
It is known that a Turbo S without LC has better acceleration than a Turbo but I like to see those numbers as well...
I believe 200 Nm more torque explains that? Easier movement of the massive weight.

I believe Turbo would have very similar numbers.

I'm positively surprised, as P officially stated ~625 HP continous power.
 


sfr

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It doesn't matter what unit you use.
Let me explain:
HP=torque*rpm/5252
In units:
HP=Nm*rpm (5252 is unitless).
So, now the question is: what do we use for rpm? m/s?
In that case rpm is a measure of speed/distance but in reality you don't know anything about the distance/perimeter...
So HP=Nm^2/s?
I don't think so.
What about radius/s?
...
You see where I am going?
It doesn't make sense.
In my view HP doesn't have a valid unit in this equation, metric nor imperial...
I hope one day someone can explain that to me...
Power (kW) = Torque (N.m) x (Speed (RPM) * 2 * pi / 60)
Power (kW) = Torque (N.m) x Speed (RPM) / 9.55 ==> 5252 is for imperial units
Power (HP) = Power (kW) * 1.36

Units are Nm/s or Watts.
For HP you need to convert by dividing by a constant because it's non MKS system.
 

Mike991GER

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Video says that the Taycan should have a nominal permanent power of 625hp, measurement shows 725hp permanent. So approx 100hp more than it should deliver..

Overboost/LC power is not measureable on dyno since this power is only delivered for a short time (peak)
 


WuffvonTrips

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In an attempt to lighten the mood, I'll have another go at posing my question from page 1...on the Turbo dyno chart, the blue line is the power measured at the wheels-close to 560PS for most of the range. The red line is the estimated output of the motors, peaking at 725PS. The green line I assume is the power lost due to the rolling resistance of the vehicle, measured by cutting the power (or with an ICE, disengaging to neutral) and rolling to a halt. The red line has been created by summing the values of the green line to those of the blue line. But...is the power loss plotted as the green line attributable to regen in addition to the coasting rolling resistance? If it is, then the rolling resistance- and therefore the power output of the motor- is being overestimated.
 

sfr

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It is the other way round.

Jos actually is Dutch.

Max's mother is Belgian and he was born in Belgium and has a Belgian passport.
However Jos and Sophie split up, Max went with his Dad (and his sister stayed with Sophie, I believe) and Jos got Max a Dutch competition license when he started out in Karting and he still races with a licence from the Dutch motorsport authority and is entered as Dutch.
And he has a Belgian driving license ... 😂
 

Jhenson29

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But...is the power loss plotted as the green line attributable to regen in addition to the coasting rolling resistance? If it is, then the rolling resistance- and therefore the power output of the motor- is being overestimated.
I agree and AFAIK, you can’t completely turn regen off. Even with overrun recup off, I see some amount of regen above 60mph or so. But I don’t know much about dynos, so I hesitate to comment further. I could hazard some guesses, but that’s all they’d be.
 

taycan_sportturismo

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Is there a reason Porsche has an over boost instead of that full power always being available? I assume it's due to longevity?
It's all down to cooling. Porsche decided that, to stay under thermal limits, the power available at overboost cannot be maintained for longer periods. The chief reason for this is the risk of demagnetizing the permanent magnets in the motor's rotor which would be very bad. Other reasons are magnet saturation and limitations of motor windings.

If someone starts reverse engineering this thing (CAN-bus logging), we can figure out what temps the car reaches during overboost and whether a bigger radiator might help with that :idea:
 

Avantgarde

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I know all this, I am an engineer who worked in Formula 1 for over 30 years.

Power is what actually does the work and, yes, it is calculated from torque and speed.

Two hypothetical engines, one with twice the torque but at half the rpm as the other have the same power, and, geared to do the same speed, the thrust at the tyre is the same for both because it is power, not torque that counts.

One of my old friends was technical director of the Ferrari F1 team. If an engineer came for a job interview his first question was always “which is important torque or power?” If the candidate answered torque the interview went no further.

It is a common mistake made by non-engineers and a disappointing number of people who think of themselves as engineers.
Agreed and I am annoyed by this common mistake too. A lot of people when they say "torque" they are really talking about non-peak power at lower RPMs without realizing. This half-knowledge / fallacy I think is caused by increasing popularity of turbo engines (diesel & petrol) in 2000s. People would see the higher peak torque levels for turbo engines in data sheets, and feel the low RPM elasticity when they drive those cars and conclude that "oh higher torque alone must be causing this". In reality what they feel is a "fatter" power curve which helps the engine deliver most of its full potential even at lower RPMs. A maximum torque figure by itself does not tell you a thing about capability of an engine if there is no RPM info comes with it. This fallacy is a bigger problem with the electric engines where gearing/rpms are very different than ICE engines. I am not a formula 1 engineer, I am not an engineer at all but at least was able to figure this out on my own.
 

JimBob

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Though all of the concepts of force, work and power work just as well for electric motors as with combustion engines, there is a fundamental difference between how electric motors and combustion engines get there.

For instance, electric motors have peak torque at zero RPM because all of the electric power is available to produce torque. As RPM's increase, back EMF increases which reduces peak torque.
 

PaulB

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It is horsepower. HP
The original definition, not the new one almost the same but defined using metric values rounded to a whole number (75kg raised 1m in 1 sec), variously described a PS, CV etc.

The definition of a horsepower is 550 lb-ft/sec which is what I think you correctly get if you use that equation with torque in lb-ft

a metic horsepower (wtf) was defined decades later than the original.
I prefer the standardising of watts for power but in the USA they still use the original and some people use the metrified one for cars and so forth, it makes them look more powerful than they are to people brought up on real horsepower :)
I see your point but I think the proper equation uses radians per second which is the proper engineering unit for rotational speed, and has the units 1/s, not rpm but this is accounted for in the value of the constant.
Exactly. The 5252 factor includes the factor to convert rpm to /sec and take account of the 550 in order to calculate HP.
Torque is in lb-ft
RPM is in revolutions per minute so has the unit /time. The 5252 is simply the factor which takes into account the 550 and the fact revs is per minute so the equation has the units ft-lb/sec.
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