How to preheat the battery

tchavei

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I'm a bit confused now.

I'm expecting my T soon. I was a bit bored so I went through the official Porsche "good to know" videos. The girl's visual might have contributed for me to go through all the videos šŸ¤£

Anyway, I'm 99% sure that in the charging video, there's a point where she was explaining how the porsche planner worked and she said that whenever a high power charger was added as a stopover or as a destination the pccm would preheat the battery to optimize the charging.

This kinda contradicts what I've read somewhere on this forum that the charger had to be added as stopover and not destination or it wouldn't preheat.

Can someone confirm this? Which one is it.

Second, directly related, question:

Let's suppose I'm located 3km (2 miles?) from a Porsche Dealership, battery is at 10% soc, ambient temperature is 20C and I want to charge it as fast as possible at the dealership HPC.

How would I get the battery to optimal temperature on such short distance and should the dealership be added as a stopover on an imaginary route to make it preheat?

Thank you
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JAGMAN

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Second question. You canā€™t. The car needs some time to preheat the battery, 2 miles isnā€™t enough.

first question. If a dc fast charger is entered into the Nav system as a destination or stopover, the system will preheat the battery. This is true.

When charging at home (AC charger) the battery may heat up but that is not from a ā€œpreheatā€ function.
 
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tchavei

tchavei

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Second question. You canā€™t. The car needs some time to preheat the battery, 2 miles isnā€™t enough.

first question. If a dc fast charger is entered into the Nav system as a destination or stopover, the system will preheat the battery. This is true.

When charging at home (AC charger) the battery may heat up but that is not from a ā€œpreheatā€ function.
Thank you.

So how long does it take to preheat on average? Are we talking about a dozen kilometers or much more?
 

McgR

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Thank you.

So how long does it take to preheat on average? Are we talking about a dozen kilometers or much more?
10-15 minutes in my experience. It would take more time driving around and preheating than just going to the charger and starting to charge a bit slower. Unless with really cold temperatures maybe but you live in Portugal.
 

McgR

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Second question. You canā€™t. The car needs some time to preheat the battery, 2 miles isnā€™t enough.

first question. If a dc fast charger is entered into the Nav system as a destination or stopover, the system will preheat the battery. This is true.

When charging at home (AC charger) the battery may heat up but that is not from a ā€œpreheatā€ function.
For the first question the thing is , it has to recognize the location as a charge stop. It will probably only work if you use search for charger on this location and then select the charger. Just entering the adres or name as destination may not work. I have never tested this because my final destination is never a DC charger.
 


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Thank you.

So how long does it take to preheat on average? Are we talking about a dozen kilometers or much more?
Proper preheating takes quite some time. Up to 30 minutes. You need to het up a mass of some700 kilos! Think about a bathtub full of water that you want to heat from 10 to 30 degrees. You cant do that with a few tea lights under the bath.
 

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I'm a bit confused now.

I'm expecting my T soon. I was a bit bored so I went through the official Porsche "good to know" videos. The girl's visual might have contributed for me to go through all the videos šŸ¤£

Anyway, I'm 99% sure that in the charging video, there's a point where she was explaining how the porsche planner worked and she said that whenever a high power charger was added as a stopover or as a destination the pccm would preheat the battery to optimize the charging.

This kinda contradicts what I've read somewhere on this forum that the charger had to be added as stopover and not destination or it wouldn't preheat.

Can someone confirm this? Which one is it.

Second, directly related, question:

Let's suppose I'm located 3km (2 miles?) from a Porsche Dealership, battery is at 10% soc, ambient temperature is 20C and I want to charge it as fast as possible at the dealership HPC.

How would I get the battery to optimal temperature on such short distance and should the dealership be added as a stopover on an imaginary route to make it preheat?

Thank you
1. Preheat (pre-conditioning to be precise) only works for DC charging. The principle is simple and requires a DC EVSE charging location to be entered as a stopover or destination (either will do). The target EVSE must be >= 50kW otherwise pre-conditioning won't be available. There is no manual override.

2. Pre-conditioning requires both energy and some distance to build up the battery temp (32C or higher). Targeting an EVSE within 2 miles range and 10% SOC won't help.

As an aside pre-conditioning occurs regardless during the initial part of the charging session. Don't expect this to dramatically expedite each and every charging session as there are many other factors at play that will limit the maximum charging rate.
 

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10-15 minutes in my experience. It would take more time driving around and preheating than just going to the charger and starting to charge a bit slower. Unless with really cold temperatures maybe but you live in Portugal.
yes, about 20 to 30 km before, the temperature of the battery starts raising.
I also noticed that you then loose 2 to 3% on the expected % at destination
 


McgR

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yes, about 20 to 30 km before, the temperature of the battery starts raising.
I also noticed that you then loose 2 to 3% on the expected % at destination
It also depends on the battery temperature before the preconditioning starts. On a long trip my battery temperature is around 25 - 30 degrees Celsius while driving. After preconditioning it is around 40.

If you leave home with a cold battery it will take much longer of course and will also use more battery.

For OP @tchavei it doesnā€™t make sense to try to precondition your car when leaving home with a cold battery and driving around to get it up to 40 degrees. You will loose a lot of energy. Beter do it before you arrive home from your last longish trip the day before. Your battery will already be warmer from driving and you are able to precondition. Or use a 22 Kw charger close by and charge for 4 hours. I presume you donā€™t have a charger at home?

by the way charging at Porsche is quite expensive 2-3 times more than Ionity and much more than at home.
 
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tchavei

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Thank you for all the input so far!

As has been said, I live in Portugal (very very southern) So I expect the battery to be at at least 20C in the spring and 30C+ in the summer anyway. Based on what the majority has reported here, I could theoretically point to that Dealership charger (if it appears as charger in the PCCM) and then just have a little blast around town before heading there... very doable, I think.

by the way charging at Porsche is quite expensive 2-3 times more than Ionity and much more than at home.
Well... Porsche didn't apply for a charging provider license here so they can't legally sell electricity (They can't charge you)... I intend to use that to my advantage at least once so the Seller (that didn't want to sell me a Taycan) has to swipe his card to let me charge up my... Taycan šŸ‘æ
 

McgR

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Thank you for all the input so far!

As has been said, I live in Portugal (very very southern) So I expect the battery to be at at least 20C in the spring and 30C+ in the summer anyway. Based on what the majority has reported here, I could theoretically point to that Dealership charger (if it appears as charger in the PCCM) and then just have a little blast around town before heading there... very doable, I think.



Well... Porsche didn't apply for a charging provider license here so they can't legally sell electricity (They can't charge you)... I intend to use that to my advantage at least once so the Seller (that didn't want to sell me a Taycan) has to swipe his card to let me charge up my... Taycan šŸ‘æ
Haha šŸ˜‚ that the first thing you have to do when you get your new car. And maybe a couple of times more after that.

Maybe you can try to switch the car on, enter the charger as a destination (charger not the adress) and see what happens if you just let it stand in front of your house.
 

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depends on the SOC / Outside Temp at the moment, if not critical and warm, I usually heat up the battery in Sport Plus + mode and just floor it. :)
 
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tchavei

tchavei

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Haha šŸ˜‚ that the first thing you have to do when you get your new car. And maybe a couple of times more after that.
Oh, I fully intend to do that. I'm still waiting for a "test drive" at this dealership since december 2022... If I had chosen them, I wouldn't even had placed an order yet.

depends on the SOC / Outside Temp at the moment, if not critical and warm, I usually heat up the battery in Sport Plus + mode and just floor it. :)
I like the "floor it" part :cool:
 

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1. Preheat (pre-conditioning to be precise) only works for DC charging. The principle is simple and requires a DC EVSE charging location to be entered as a stopover or destination (either will do). The target EVSE must be >= 50kW otherwise pre-conditioning won't be available. There is no manual override.

2. Pre-conditioning requires both energy and some distance to build up the battery temp (32C or higher). Targeting an EVSE within 2 miles range and 10% SOC won't help.

As an aside pre-conditioning occurs regardless during the initial part of the charging session. Don't expect this to dramatically expedite each and every charging session as there are many other factors at play that will limit the maximum charging rate.
This is helpful as I am trying to learn this pre-conditioning of battery before charging at a DC station explained in point #1, which is very clear, and it worked for me using a loaner on a long trip.

However, does the battery pre-condition to expected operating temperature (heated/cooled or heated only) before the drive off after charging at the AC home outlet. I am expecting a max of 40Amp out at 9.6kW (to be installed) and plan to use the Timer to set to have it ready to drive by 8am with 85%. However, our temps outside could be very cold and while garage is insulated, the air in the garage could be super cold during winter so would battery be heated from AC in this case. Same question would apply to a theoretical drive to Florida and being in extreme heat for example, would the battery be cooled down by the Timer preset drive off if it is too hot by means of being outside in a hot air.
 
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W1NGE

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This is helpful as I am trying to learn this pre-conditioning of battery before charging at a DC station explained in point #1, which is very clear, and it worked for me using a loaner on a long trip.

However, does the battery pre-condition to expected operating temperature (heated/cooled or heated only) before the drive off after charging at the AC home outlet. I am expecting a max of 40Amp out at 9.6kW (to be installed) and plan to use the Timer to set to have it ready to drive by 8am with 85%. However, our temps outside could be very cold and while garage is insulated, the air in the garage could be super cold during winter so would battery be heated from AC in this case. Same question would apply to a theoretical drive to Florida and being in extreme heat for example, would the battery be cooled down by the Timer preset drive off if it is too hot by means of being outside in a hot air.
Pre-conditioning is not that clever is the easiest way to look at this.

Charging your battery by either AC or DC will by the laws of physics generate heat and therefore increase the temperature of the battery during a charging session. DC will warm it faster and higher.

AC charging has the least impact as there just isn't enough juice to do it plus it would only extend the time required to reach your target charge. The battery will naturally warm up but perhaps to 18C (often less) over the period rather than 32C when on a DC charging session.

Charing at home on AC with a 9.6kW EVSE will be perfect for overnight charging (regardless of ambient temperature) and will comfortably charge your battery to 85% from around 15% in 7 (or so hours).

Pre-conditioning is the only term to consider - pre-heat (in the Porsche world) typically relates to cabin temperature (heat / cooling) using the air conditioner as part of the Timer function. This doesn't pre-heat the battery.

Let the car worry about managing the battery temp rather than Timers, Profiles or a combination of both. The cooling of the battery is not within your control and if needed the Battery Management System (BMS) will take care of it.
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