I am watching the “sh*t show” that EA is live and in person

[atebit]

Apparently, they will respond to the word “sucks” in a PlugShare review of the location…

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[manitou202]

This is really sad to hear Dave. There is absolutely no excuse to have problems this widespread. EA has had plenty of time to correct the issues, but it appears there is little progress.

At this point I just hope another more reliable network steps up and fills in the gaps. I'm not convinced Tesla with really open their SuperCharging network. My guess is they will limit it somehow with other brands and make it unattractive. Just good enough to get government infrastructure money. I'm not sure what other major charging networks have a real shot of replacing EA in the next 12-18 months. At this point I would be happy with a reliable 150kW service that had excellent coverage.

Personally I've never had major issues with EA, but the stories online and many of the reviews on PlugShare make me cringe.

 

[f10tt]

I'm not convinced Tesla with really open their SuperCharging network. My guess is they will limit it somehow with other brands and make it unattractive. Just good enough to get government infrastructure money.

Same. Back before I jumped into the private world this was a question brought up to their GA folks often and their response was "well it would take too much money to make it happen properly and until we see a bill that says that we're in a holding pattern."

Tesla won't open up until they're either a) paid to or, b) forced to.

a) is most likely but it won't be until well after the BIF/reconciliation

 

[daveo4EV]

this is sad - because all the problems seem to be overly complex activation problem - once you can get an EA station past it’s activation issues the Taycan charges SOOOOOOOO fast it’s really best on the market right now.

I used EA twice in the past 4 days:

1. thursday @ willows, ca (PCA GGR track weekend - 3 days)
2. sunday @ vacaville, ca (driving home from PCA GGR track weekend)

_BOTH_ EA visits required 10-20 min _JUST_ to activate the charging session, but once started charging proceeded at rates that are superior to Tesla’s supercharger‘s

4% battery @ 1:36 pm - session start

262 kW charge rate - effectively maximum power @1:41 pm - 26% power in the firsst 5 min - I saw 264 kW but “missed” the picture with my phone - it cruised between 258 KW & 264 KW bouncing up and down for quite a while before it started to taper - I consider this effectively “full power”.

88% @ 2:05 pm - 30 min after charging sessions started - no wait time on my end cause I was doing bath room break, fast food and then walked back to the car - I was “blown away” at how far it had gotten

it’s super super sad to see this good of charging network being handicapped by BS poorly thought through commerce and activation problems - once you can get an EA charger to begin charging the experience is equal or better than the Supercharger network - unfortunately their activation system is sooooo fragile and complex most people can’t to that point - or you have to spend 30 min fussing with 3 separate application and then call EA and wait 10 min for them to remotely activate your session - really really sad.

 

[daveo4EV]

the CCS design by committee plug is also terrible no good bad awful piece-o-sh*t design…

the Kia owner was an older woman on the smaller size of average - the big heavy cables and the large unweildy design of the CCS connecter and the weight of the entire physical cord + connector and the slight twisting that needs to be done to “fit” the cable into the CCS female socket on the car was simply too much for this particular human to manage - she required assistance to man-handle the plug into the socket…and I don’t know how she would’ve done it if there was no one else there to assist her…

the fact that she could not get the session started and EA requirement to remove and reinsert the plug as they are diagnosing their BS problems - further aggravates the problem as now the cable has be removed and manhandled multple times all this while trying to hold a phone to one’s ear with one hand…

{facepalm} is an understatement

you really really really need to sit and watch this stuff from a slight distance to simply appreciate how bad a design this entire system is and it’s liabilities…

Tesla’s North American supercharger plug design and it’s smaller size and easier to handle bulk/heft and effectively plug&charge since day one is vastly superior - vastly superior both from a human factors equation and reliability point of view.

I just shake my head and cry - I honestly do - it’s just so so so bad - and I’m willing to bet absolutely no one cares and since the experience isn’t owned by anyone it will remain this way for quite some time…

 

[daveo4EV]

_IF_ someone were to care about all this crap - you really really should just go sit and “watch” an semi-busy EA station one day and watch people coming and going and their attempts to use these piece-o-sh*t design chargers - and then report back to the “boss” who then needs to come down like a ton of bricks on somone at EA and say in no uncertain terms…

F I X I T ! THIS IS UTTER BS AND UNACCEPTABLE FOR OUR CUSTOMER EXPERIENCE.

but I won’t hold my breath for this to happen.

 

[Klepper]

... I saw 264 kW but “missed” the picture with my phone - it cruised between 258 KW & 264 KW bouncing up and down for quite a while before it started to taper - I consider this effectively “full power”.

... I was “blown away” at how far it had gotten.....

...the large unweildy design of the CCS connecter and the weight of the entire physical cord + connector and the slight twisting that needs to be done to “fit” the cable into the CCS female socket on the car...

Don't these two things go hand in hand though? You need the big, bulky, heavy cord to be able to handle the power to hit those huge charge rates?

 

[daveo4EV]

Don't these two things go hand in hand though? You need the big, bulky, heavy cord to be able to handle the power to hit those huge charge rates?

Yes but you can choose the proper material and design to make the cables actually manageable - and in theory 800V should allow smaller and lighter cables - Tesla’s V3 superchargers can handle 220 kW and they seem to be able to provide manageable cables for their users…

the EA cables are quite large, very heavy the physical/standard/specific dimensions of the CCS connector make it a very hard cable to “insert” into the charging port on the vehicle - there is also a very subtle problem at least with the the Taycan

the charging port is not actually perpendicular to the flat ground - it’s actually tilted slightly back following the slope of the Taycan’s gorgeous fenders - so to insert a CCS connect - one has to:

1. pull the EA cable from the station
2. ”natrual” cable orientation is the connector “pointing” to the rear of the car from the station
3. rotate the cable 90 degress from 6’o’clock (car front is 12 o’clock) to 9 o’clock position
4. align the cable at slightly below waist level requiring a small “squat” since it’s ever so slightly below one’s hip line
5. and then lift up and push in at the same time to have the cable’s “tilt” match the Taycan’s port Tilt…

and typically do this all while on the phone with EA (one hand out of commission) because their activation system is complex and fragile and doesn’t work most of the time.

good design fixes problem- even the ones that are required by the system - it’s clear to me there was zero human factors consideration in the design of CCS system or any vendor’s implementation of a CCS charger - they have functional designs, but they do not have usable designs with any actual review and/or iteration of design to address human factors issues…

it’s pretty clear to me - this is an engineering spec that is simply implemented by everybody but owned by no one -and it’s sh*t design and the problems it causes shows…

I’m positive it doesn’t have to be this way - but no one owning the end to end user experience means it will never get addressed - we need a car manufacturer to be a squeaky wheel and advocate for the customer in this space and given that they really really aren’t all in on this whole EV thing quite yet I’m pretty sure no one is going to take up the challenge

they still seem much more interested in getting ICE ban exceptions for italian super cars, have $75/gallon alternative hydrogen based synthetic fules to “keep” their ICE engines and preserving what little they can wiggle room so they never have to electrify the 911…these are not the actions of of company/industry that is fully committed to making EV’s work

 

[Miwa]

At least the Bolt went somewhere more suited, as lots of EVgo are 50kW chargers, and that's all the Bolt takes anyway.

Sucks EA is still a shitshow, but there are a lot of other companies investing in building chargers. I expect in the long run state regulations in places like CA will make permitting easier, and "standard" stand-alone chargers available for locals to install will eventually make things more pervasive.

In the meantime, it'll be hit or miss. VW is trying to sell a stake in EA also, but my take on that is it's more to raise cash than to ditch control.

 

[daveo4EV]

At least the Bolt went somewhere more suited, as lots of EVgo are 50kW chargers, and that's all the Bolt takes anyway.

Sucks EA is still a shitshow, but there are a lot of other companies investing in building chargers. I expect in the long run state regulations in places like CA will make permitting easier, and "standard" stand-alone chargers available for locals to install will eventually make things more pervasive.

In the meantime, it'll be hit or miss. VW is trying to sell a stake in EA also, but my take on that is it's more to raise cash than to ditch control.

another sign IMHO that these vendors are still not quite fully committed to this whole EV thing - there still is too much hedging of one’s bets…

no one has yet burned all the boats in the harbor and said - this is our situation - deal with and make it better…

 

[daveo4EV]

full committment to EV’s is not these people’s strong suite…

https://www.yahoo.com/autos/faux-fuel-chemistry-save-internal-180000944.html

For the sake of the 911 (and plenty of other cars), Porsche, with partners that include Siemens Energy, has invested around $24 million in a large-scale commercial synfuels plant. The pilot plant, in Chile, could begin operating next year. BMW has also invested in a synfuels company, while McLaren is said to be readying a synfuel-powered prototype.

Porsche's goal is to produce a fuel by splitting water into hydrogen and oxygen using electricity generated by a wind turbine. The hydrogen would then be combined with atmospheric carbon dioxide to create synthetic methanol, from which synthetic gasoline, diesel, and kerosene can be refined. Sounds clean, right? Just water and wind.

pro tip: it’s doesn’t matter that the energy is generated renewably if your simply to waste it all with a very very very inefficient process to make very very very expensive “fuel” - the power can be better used directly on the grid…this process is akin to fishing via dynamite in the water…

keep in mind all the power “wasted” to split water into hydrogen could be better used just dumping into a battery or the grid - it’s very very very very very very expensive to split water into hydrogen and then process the hydrogen so it can be used

if you start with 100 kwh of wind-turbine power - you used like 81 of those kWh to just process the hydrogen!!!! This is a 19% efficient process before you get around spending more energy to make it into a fuel…

 

[daveo4EV]

say what you will about Tesla (and we’ve all said a lot) they are not lacking focus on making this whole EV thing work…now I’m not saying they are perfect and don’t have room to improve or haven’t made mistakes - but they are focused on their EV’s and tend to own the whole experience - including making sure charging actually works…

 

[daveo4EV]

True, but still better than waiting an hour to get a free charger?

people wait in line for quality product that actually works - 2 of the 3 cars that showed couldn’t get it to function for them and left…this is not the sign of a quality product.

lines at superchargers are infrequent but still a problem - but everyone in line will get a charging session when it’s their turn

there was NO line at the EA station and when I arrived 7 stalls open - apparenlty 7 stalls are open because the entire network doesn’t actually function - so why would anyone line and wait around for something that will never function.

lots of businesses have no lines at their checkouts because no one wants to buy their products - yet costco is always busy with lots of customers waiting in line…

no lines is not necessarily a sign of success…it could in fact be a sign of abject failure - and in this case it is…

I’ve waited in line for a supercharger 3 times in 8 years - but I never questioned if it was going to work when it came my time to plug in.

 

[fullmetalbaal]

people wait in line for quality product that actually works - 2 of the 3 cars that showed couldn’t get it to function for them and left…this is not the sign of a quality product.

lines at superchargers are infrequent but still a problem - but everyone in line will get a charging session when it’s their turn

there was NO line at the EA station and when I arrived 7 stalls open - apparenlty 7 stalls are open because the entire network doesn’t actually function - so why would anyone line and wait around for something that will never function.

lots of businesses have no lines at their checkouts because no one wants to buy their products - yet costco is always busy with lots of customers waiting in line…

no lines is not necessarily a sign of success…it could in fact be a sign of abject failure - and in this case it is…

I’ve waited in line for a supercharger 3 times in 8 years - but I never questioned if it was going to work when it came my time to plug in.

Just wait until more people buy a an ID.4 and Mach-E. There will be lines.

First, they have to figure out how to get it to start.

Then they will be trundling along at 125kw or less.

The 270kw is going be completely theoretical for us, when you consider the total time spent.

 

[epirali]

This has been my experience with EA for two years, including at their frickin actual headquarters building in VA. I mean that says something. It’s all lip service and no actual commitment to a reliable network. I’ve had brand new big locations not work for WEEKS after I reported them and called in 3 times. It’s a joke.

but yes one negative review and they were calling me. Only for more lip service even when I kept refusing to accept “free charging.” With the Jaguar I simply said “I don’t need free charging at a station the doesn’t work, I’m happy to pay for charging at one that works.”

With Taycan I called Porsche customer service. Guess what happened?

its sad really, I really want to take a road trip but I’m not stupid.

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