I am watching the “sh*t show” that EA is live and in person

[PNWTaycan4S]

Over the last year, and near 16,000 miles with many very long road trips, I've expeience about a 30% success rate on first attempt with EA chargers. Usually I have to switch stations to get it to work. Sometimes trying all the stations to get it at above 100KW. Current max at EA on my most recent road trips is around 130 KW on 150 KW chargers. The 350 KW chargers generally don't work in my area. Yesterday pulling into a location with 3 stations, with all fully inoperative.

My Western U.S. road trips using ChargePoint have been 100% successful on the first attempt.

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[Jhenson29]

Yes but you can choose the proper material and design to make the cables actually manageable - and in theory 800V should allow smaller and lighter cables - Tesla’s V3 superchargers can handle 220 kW and they seem to be able to provide manageable cables for their users…

the EA cables are quite large, very heavy the physical/standard/specific dimensions of the CCS connector make it a very hard cable to “insert” into the charging port on the vehicle - there is also a very subtle problem at least with the the Taycan

I would assume the EA cables are made for at least 350kW though, right? If so, it would be comparable to 175kW at a 400V supercharger. Plus the 800V cable likely has different insulation.

Not saying you’re wrong. Just pointing out that the cable itself may not be able to significantly smaller.

I haven’t used a CCS charger; but the pictures look atrocious. An exercise in wasting space. But I have a hard time seeing CCS changing, whether it should or not; who’s going to drive that and absorb that cost?

Long term, charging rates seem like they have to increase. And if the cables are already unmanageable now, either due to cable size or connection type or both; then what’s going to happen?

Cables could be better with higher voltage. I only work with 600 VAC and 800VDC max, so I’m not familiar with what issues or considerations there may be for significantly higher voltages. Changes to the car obviously, but more referencing possible safety concerns? Maybe someone else more familiar could chime in.

But, imagine 350kW @ 5kV. That’s only 70 amps. That’s less current than my cable at home. Sounds scary, but 800V is already more than enough to smoke you. I typically have to wear at least a Cat2 arc flash suit for stuff like that. There are several other factors, but I’m guessing we’re already in danger land as it is if proper safety devices aren’t in place.

 

[Needsdecaf]

Don't these two things go hand in hand though? You need the big, bulky, heavy cord to be able to handle the power to hit those huge charge rates?

No. You need a liquid cooled cable, like some of the chargers in Europe. They are much smaller, yet able to handle the loading because they are actively cooled.

 

[Klepper]

No. You need a liquid cooled cable, like some of the chargers in Europe. They are much smaller, yet able to handle the loading because they are actively cooled.

Wow, never knew liquid cooled cables existed. That's pretty cool.

So far, I have not had any issues handling the cable at EA stations. It has seemed pretty easy to plug into the car. Also, my plug and charge works perfectly. I guess I have just been blessed with good luck on this car (knock on wood).

 

[KTC]

As someone who's about to leave next week on a road trip with the Taycan, this thread is really reassuring.

I did enjoy the fact that this must have been so infuriating for @daveo4EV that he churned out multiple long posts while waiting for the charger to work

 

[chrisk]

As someone who's about to leave next week on a road trip with the Taycan, this thread is really reassuring.

I did enjoy the fact that this must have been so infuriating for @daveo4EV that he churned out multiple long posts while waiting for the charger to work

One way or another (call EA, go to Chargepoint or EVGO) you will be able to charge and complete your trip (hopefully). The point here is the major inconvenience and the unnecessary bad customer experience.

I guess if Plug&Charge really worked for all models and if EA proactively detected and rebooted stations that are in bad state, it would significantly improve things.

 

[KTC]

One way or another (call EA, go to Chargepoint or EVGO) you will be able to charge and complete your trip (hopefully). The point here is the major inconvenience and the unnecessary bad customer experience.

I guess if Plug&Charge really worked for all models and if EA proactively detected and rebooted stations that are in bad state, it would significantly improve things.

All joking and poking fun at @daveo4EV aside, I think relying on EA alone as a charging network is a single point failure. That's like saying I want to do a road trip and only expect ARCO fueling stations to always work and be available. If that's the unique need, then sure, lots of issues.

I'm assuming the ones that he used had bad reviews on PlugShare? So maybe there's some way to plan in advance for potential issues like this?

But yes, charging for 50 minutes at 50kW using EvGO, that's doable. Or I'd just plug in at my hotel on a J1772.

 

[andrewket]

This is honestly why my wife recently switched to a eHybrid Cayenne from a Model X.

The Cayenne still meets her day to day needs on EV range alone but we also now have a road trip car that doesn't require stopping. Even with Teslas solid infrastructure wait times are a reality and just about every supercharger ends up having a stall or two that pump out less juice than they should, or do so anyway if the chargers are full. Killing trip time.

I'm all about the EV road trip for myself, but I have my fair share of EV horror stories. I will say however they are improving in my neck of the woods, and all my more recent road trips seem to proceed without a major issue.

You must be in California. I bought my first Tesla in early 2013 and have driven cross country several times. I've only had to wait for a SpC spot twice outside of CA, and in both cases it was <5 min wait. I'll take Tesla's reliability over EA every time.

 

[thecoloradokid]

All joking and poking fun at @daveo4EV aside, I think relying on EA alone as a charging network is a single point failure. That's like saying I want to do a road trip and only expect ARCO fueling stations to always work and be available. If that's the unique need, then sure, lots of issues.

I'm assuming the ones that he used had bad reviews on PlugShare? So maybe there's some way to plan in advance for potential issues like this?

But yes, charging for 50 minutes at 50kW using EvGO, that's doable. Or I'd just plug in at my hotel on a J1772.

Keith:

Enjoy that drive! Where are you headed?

Unfortunately, on most long road trips Electrify America is the only option. If I want to drive from Denver to Salt Lake, the EA charger in Green River will either make or break that trip. Same if I want to drive to Vegas. There are no other options in New Mexico, eastern Colorado, or western or central Kansas.

EA is hit or miss, which is the problem. For instance, I have driven the 750 miles from Vegas to Denver in one day in a Taycan and all the EA chargers worked great and pumped out juice as designed. The flip side of that is last week's drive from Denver to Kansas City where all the EA chargers in eastern Colorado, Western Kansas, and Central Kansas were all working on limited power. It took forever to charge, and added an extra 90 minutes to my trip.

The inconsistency is my biggest frustration with Electrify America. Some times the chargers work great, and sometimes they just majorly suck. You will never know how a station will work until you actually plug in regardless of what Plugshare comments are on a certain location.

 

[JohnM2]

I completed a 600 mile, each way, road trip last week from Portland to Napa. Route planner had me spending about 1 hour on the chargers each way. Due to problems w/EA stations, it was 2 hours. At a stop in Yreka, CA, I was on the phone for 1 hour resetting stations, moving to different stations, etc. On several stations, my car was not recognized and my account was not authorized. I called to get "remote authorization", but this took about 10-15 minutes to go through all the processes. The apps were mostly useless. At 4 of 6 stops the cell signal was so weak, it was hard to tell what was happening. Perhaps these stations generate a ton of EMI, making cell phones less reliable? In any case, it was an eye opener. I love driving this car....fabulous on the freeway, but I do not feel I can take another long road trip in it. I really do not want to return to ICE....hope EA gets its act together.

 

[feye]

I really do not want to return to ICE....hope EA gets its act together.

Compare to other markets, the problem in the US seems the government is still focused on oil and gas. Why aren't the grid/power companies getting into this business like in China and the EU?

Shouldn't our US friends complain a bit louder to the gov and a little less loud in here?

 

[feye]

_IF_ someone were to care about all this crap - you really really should just go sit and “watch” an semi-busy EA station one day and watch people coming and going and their attempts to use these piece-o-sh*t design chargers - and then report back to the “boss” who then needs to come down like a ton of bricks on somone at EA and say in no uncertain terms…

F I X I T ! THIS IS UTTER BS AND UNACCEPTABLE FOR OUR CUSTOMER EXPERIENCE.

but I won’t hold my breath for this to happen.

I totally agree that the heavy charging cables are a joke and simply unusable for certain people. I have handled cables here in China - super long for buses and trucks, they are so insane heavy...

EA - a business setup by lawyers and judges - you should be jubilant about every single free charge you get out of it.

 

[Reg]

I have always been a strong supporter and cheerleader for EA - particularly because my experiences with issues have been few and professionally and quickly resolved.

However, after reading this, my recommendation is that they disable the need to do any activation (e.g. just plug and charge for free) until they resolve these issues.

That certainly may be expensive, however, losing the faith of the market would be even more expensive. The expense would create a level of urgency to get it right.

This thread has made me sad, so I am going to play with my puppy for a while.

@daveo4EV , as always, thanks for posting.

 

[fullmetalbaal]

Compare to other markets, the problem in the US seems the government is still focused on oil and gas. Why aren't the grid/power companies getting into this business like in China and the EU?

Shouldn't our US friends complain a bit louder to the gov and a little less loud in here?

I think Tesla has shown that it doesn't HAVE to be a government thing.
I'd argue EvGO is also doing a decent job, also ChargePoint.

If anything government intervention is partially at fault for what we have now: EA, via the enforced by the government funding by VW, outspent all the other non-Tesla networks and is the clear candidate for non-Tesla car companies to partner with.

Also due to government, the metrics are not customer satisfaction, or charging sessions, or anything related to quality - but just stations built. Which is also why they are partnering with big box retailers: they may or may not be well located near highways, but they do allow EA to sign up for hundreds of locations in one go... ideal for them to meet their KPIs. Not so ideal for somebody on a road trip.

As a side note: in Germany, Tesla network is also amongst the top. So much so that politicians have been talking about forcing them to open it to everybody... Meanwhile Ionity isn't nearly as good, enough for Diess to publicly diss them.

Not saying this to be pro-Tesla - just remarking that this is not a US vs. rest-of-world in terms of system, nor about government vs. private.
EA just happens to suck at it.

 

[Jhenson29]

I think Tesla has shown that it doesn't HAVE to be a government thing.

Yeah, we could have a bunch of manufacturers make charging stations for just their cars. Sounds great. ?

If anything, Tesla has shown that it does have to be a government thing. Case in point:

So much so that politicians have been talking about forcing them to open it to everybody...

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