I ask and answer: Why won't my Taycan Charge as fast as I want it to?

louv

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tl;dr: Temperature and SoC (State of Charge).

We've all see the "Recharge from 5% to 80% in 22 minutes claims". Well, I haven't been able to experience that yet. And it was bugging me. Why not? Why can't *I* have that much POWER?!?

So I dug back into the manuals. Couldn't find anything useful or specific.
I dug into Porsche's Press Releases. It's probably there, but I couldn't find it there either.
Jalopnik. Here's the data I wanted. I have no doubt this data was handed to all of the Press when they were invited to the Press Introductions of the Turbos and 4S.

I live in Maine. It's winter here. Temperature is my biggest hurdle.

A couple of examples:
Even with some preconditioning my battery temperature was only 39°F after driving to my local grocery store. I plugged into a 50kW EVgo charging station and it talked to the car, then the station said it Failed. Five times. I *think* that was because the battery pack was too cold. But there wasn't any indication, either on the station or from the car, what the reason for the failed charging session was.

I drove the car to another charging station, five miles away, with Preconditioning turned on. By the time I arrived, there was some heat in the battery. 57°F. A 350kW station would now only charge at about 50kW. My SoC to begin with was around 50%.

So I found this chart in the Jalopnik Article: (I modified it slightly)


Taycan Charging Thermal Map.png


A few things here. There was no way I was going to get more than 50kW. The car and battery were just too cold, and my battery pack was at too high state of charge.

I will never see max charge rates unless the battery is Hot, that is, above 25°C/77°F. And the Initial SoC is below 20%. OK then. Now I know.

Getting all 1,389 pounds of the battery pack heated up from 20°F to 77°F is going to take quite a bit of power. I guess it is only realistic if I'm on a road trip. It doesn't make sense just running down to the local grocery store, and heating up the battery, just to bring the SoC from 60 to 80%.

This chart should be stuck on the inside of every windshield. Better yet, the car should say, "Based on your battery SoC and Temperature, your maximum charge rate will be approximately 50kW." That way I don't have to bother going across town for a 350kW charger, if the 50kW charger is close by.


This tidbit is interesting as well.

Charging Planner.png


The Charging Planner would be very helpful. You know... if I even knew where the charging planner was. Or how to use it. I *think* that by using the Nav to find a charger in the "Porsche Charging Service", and then going to it, the Charging Planner automatically kicks in. Except that (currently) when I ask my Nav for that list , it says "No Results". None found, ever, even if I'm parked next to one. Not yet ready for Prime Time. Hopefully this will be fixed by the time most folks get their cars.

IMG_1838 2.jpg


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Reg

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tl;dr: Temperature and SoC (State of Charge).

I will never see max charge rates unless the battery is Hot, that is, above 25°C/77°F.
This was a really useful post, thanks. Hot? Although as a California person, I view 77 as just a bit more than room temperature ;)

Certainly fast charging at 350 does seem to be more appropriate to the road trip where you need that fast charging and by the time you get to the first stop, the car would be appropriately warm. The run to the grocery store, even in California (assuming car is garaged) is not going to get to 77 degrees.

Thanks for all your posts and sharing your experiences with the car!
 

Scandinavian

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tl;dr: Temperature and SoC (State of Charge).

We've all see the "Recharge from 5% to 80% in 22 minutes claims". Well, I haven't been able to experience that yet. And it was bugging me. Why not? Why can't *I* have that much POWER?!?

The Charging Planner would be very helpful. You know... if I even knew where the charging planner was. Or how to use it. I *think* that by using the Nav to find a charger in the "Porsche Charging Service", and then going to it, the Charging Planner automatically kicks in. Except that (currently) when I ask my Nav for that list , it says "No Results". None found, ever, even if I'm parked next to one. Not yet ready for Prime Time. Hopefully this will be fixed by the time most folks get their cars.

Very good write up and conclusions. Thanks for taking the time to share this, very appreciated!

I would certainly agree with you that the heavy piece of battery will need much longer drives to get any heat in it. But I guess this is valid and the same for all BEV’s.

And another question? Since the battery will not accept high charges I would think there will not be so much regen when pressing the brake pedal either. You may use the physical pads more when it is cold. The battery can not take that full regen either. You probably will have road conditions that will make it academic anyhow.

My Tesla has quite limited regen when it is cold outside. By cold I mean about 5 to 10 degrees centigrade! So nothing compared to your situation. I drove about 70 km mixed town and motorway the other day and still had limited regen at the end of it. And I guess I would have had limited charging at a supercharger if I had tried.

Regarding your comment on the Porsche Charging Service, could it be so that you only see Porsche Chargers in the planner. This is certainly the case with Tesla. I can be at an Ionity 350kW charger and the car will not see it. The database is only Tesla chargers?
 

louv

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This was a really useful post, thanks. Hot? Although as a California person, I view 77 as just a bit more than room temperature ;)
I'm an ex-Californian. 77 would be nice, again. But I do like having four actual seasons again: Almost Winter, Winter, Still Winter, and Construction.

Certainly fast charging at 350 does seem to be more appropriate to the road trip where you need that fast charging and by the time you get to the first stop, the car would be appropriately warm. The run to the grocery store, even in California (assuming car is garaged) is not going to get to 77 degrees.
Yes, DC Fast charging isn't really a good idea on a Daily Basis. Overnight AC charging is better for long term battery life (so I'm learning, anyway). But until the spring thaw, I can't install my home charger, so I'm making use of local DC Fast chargers.

I'm hoping to do a Cross Country run in the car. Maybe in a month or two.

Thanks for all your posts and sharing your experiences with the car!
I am getting a little worried at the lack of other drivers. I thought 130 cars were sold. I hope that wasn't 2 cars to people, and 128 to dealerships as Demos. But that's a different thread.
 

louv

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...
I would certainly agree with you that the heavy piece of battery will need much longer drives to get any heat in it. But I guess this is valid and the same for all BEV’s.
Yes, I'm sure all BEVs have the same issue.
And another question? Since the battery will not accept high charges I would think there will not be so much regen when pressing the brake pedal either. You may use the physical pads more when it is cold. The battery can not take that full regen either. You probably will have road conditions that will make it academic anyhow.
Maximum regen braking can generate up to 265 kW of power in the Taycan. But I'm guessing (I don't have the actual numbers) that most of the time regeneration is below 50kW. So I don't think it's a big problem, even in cold weather. And there's always those giant iron plates and squeezey things as a failsafe. And yes, snowy roads aren't great places to see if I can max out the kW of the Regen system.

My Tesla has quite limited regen when it is cold outside. By cold I mean about 5 to 10 degrees centigrade! So nothing compared to your situation. I drove about 70 km mixed town and motorway the other day and still had limited regen at the end of it. And I guess I would have had limited charging at a supercharger if I had tried.
I used to live at the top of a hill (1600 feet in elevation). The first part of my daily commute was downhill. My BMW ActiveE would have a full battery and without any warning other than a small blinking idiot light no the dash, would lose all Regen. The car would shoot forward, coasting freely, and the headrest would smack me in the back of the head. I was freaked out the first couple of times that happened (as was my wife). Eventually we figured out: stomp on the Go Pedal a little to make some room in the battery!

Regarding your comment on the Porsche Charging Service, could it be so that you only see Porsche Chargers in the planner. This is certainly the case with Tesla. I can be at an Ionity 350kW charger and the car will not see it. The database is only Tesla chargers?
The ElectrifyAmerica Chargers are part of the Porsche Charging Service. And even if I'm parked right next to the charger, it doesn't show me anything. I think it's just a database that has not yet been populated with all the data. Good thing I have the toobs and pipes of the Interwebz.
 

MissionC

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Great post - thanks for sharing your experiences. I’m in the Boston area and my Taycan will be my DD, so seeing the impact of cold temperatures on the battery behavior is really helpful. In theory, you can use the app to set preconditioning, correct? I also wonder about the data sources for EV chargers that Porsche will be using. I’ve got the Intelligent Range Manager on my build, but have already loaded my iPhone with all the major EV apps to make sure I can find one if I need it. My lengthy road trips are few and far between and it looks like EA’s coverage in my general area is expanding soon. Gonna be a whole new world. I’m just psyched to fill up at home!
 

louv

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... In theory, you can use the app to set preconditioning, correct? ...
Yes, the App (in my Case iOS) can set timers to precondition the car. Or you can do a one-click "Precondition Now".
My car should be starting a warming cycle right now... as I need to go to the airport in a little bit and pick up a friend.
 

Reg

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Yes, the App (in my Case iOS) can set timers to precondition the car. Or you can do a one-click "Precondition Now".
My car should be starting a warming cycle right now... as I need to go to the airport in a little bit and pick up a friend.
Does that enable something similar to dog mode, where you can keep your car at 72 degrees while you are out shopping? Or is it focused on the battery?
 

louv

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Does that enable something similar to dog mode, where you can keep your car at 72 degrees while you are out shopping? Or is it focused on the battery?
Sadly, no specific dog mode.

It does precondition the cabin, seat heaters, steering wheel heater, and rear defroster. And the battery. It only operates for an hour. So... I guess you could use it for Rover.
 

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This chart should be stuck on the inside of every windshield. Better yet, the car should say, "Based on your battery SoC and Temperature, your maximum charge rate will be approximately 50kW." That way I don't have to bother going across town for a 350kW charger, if the 50kW charger is close by.
Thank you! Indeed a VERY interesting and should know for every driver piece of information. Also interesting how much harder it is for EVs to operate efficiently in cold weather.
 

louv

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Preconditioned for 60 minutes.
Ambient temp: 34°F
Charged (while continuing to condition) for another 60 minutes (started at 40kW, down to 25kW)
Battery temp never got above 59°F
SoC went from 65 to 90%
 

louv

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Thank you! Indeed a VERY interesting and should know for every driver piece of information. Also interesting how much harder it is for EVs to operate efficiently in cold weather.
Other than DC Fast charging, the car is fantastic in the snow. Totally confident handling. Heats up (the interior) faster than a gas or diesel car. And I love being able to pre-heat my car before driving to work.

With an AC home charger this would be a non-issue. It would always stay topped up as I sleep.
 

svp6

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Other than DC Fast charging, the car is fantastic in the snow. Totally confident handling. Heats up (the interior) faster than a gas or diesel car. And I love being able to pre-heat my car before driving to work.

With an AC home charger this would be a non-issue. It would always stay topped up as I sleep.

Thank you for all the info you are sharing with us - much appreciated. As you pointed out, charging issues are just early adopter problems (I hope). Porsche should do OTA updates to the charger maps, it would be ridiculous if they did not considering the rapid expansion plans of Electrify America.

Now that you drove around a bit more, what is your Wh/ mile average? I am curious how that compares to Tesla, so I can guestimate my future use in winter here in MN.
 

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@louv thank you for sharing your experiences. I saw some recent arrivals that dealerships should not be selling cars yet, only using them for demos and taking orders. There are letters from Porsche AG to the USA dealerships. So that may explain the lack of other owners to talk to.

But I was just reviewing the Porsche Good to Know app and saw a little bit of information about how to use the Charging Planner, it appears it must be used in conjunction with a route. I would suggest you get the App and do a search for Charging Planner.

I completely agree that the battery status screen should show the max charging rate based on current SoC and Battery Temperature.
 

louv

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@louv thank you for sharing your experiences. I saw some recent arrivals that dealerships should not be selling cars yet, only using them for demos and taking orders. There are letters from Porsche AG to the USA dealerships. So that may explain the lack of other owners to talk to.
That makes sense. Maybe they weren’t planning on being ready yet!

But I was just reviewing the Porsche Good to Know app and saw a little bit of information about how to use the Charging Planner, it appears it must be used in conjunction with a route. I would suggest you get the App and do a search for Charging Planner.
....
Yes. I’ve tried that. The app fails to plot any route longer than a couple of stops, and reports an incorrect error: “check your internet connection.” From a software perspective, I get it; the client timed out waiting for the server’s response to a long and complex request. Probably. I’m just assuming.
 
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