I ask and answer: Why won't my Taycan Charge as fast as I want it to?

[ron_b]

In one image the battery temp is over 100 deg. F after charging. IIRC, optimal temp is 85 deg. F. I have no idea the optimal range, but there has to be some upper limit where if the battery is too hot charging is reduced to protect the battery chemistry. Could be indicative of a problem with the battery cooling system (louvers, fans, pumps, etc.) but I would expect an error code in this case. So temps may be just fine. Anyone have experience with charging rate vs. battery temp?

Like @porsche_coyote said, higher temperatures are not so bad below 120F. The car will heat battery to about 92F when routing to a charger. Then high speed charging will of course raise it.
See chart at start of this thread, I know it only shows up to 95F but I take this chart as a temp at start of charge statement, not a temp during charge.
https://www.taycanforum.com/forum/t...my-taycan-charge-as-fast-as-i-want-it-to.779/

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[Christian J]

I was out for about 500 miles yesterday and used 2 EA chargers and one EvolveNY. I plugged the charger location into Nav for each leg so I believe that the battery was conditioned prior to arrival. My connect is not working so Consumption was higher than I expected on this trip but our avg speeds were also higher than expected (oopsie). The last leg of of 90 miles used 45.7kwh/100! We had a full car with wife & son & dog so the stopovers were useful as someone always needed a bathroom break or drink/snack. I'm running 20" Pirelli Scorpion winter tires which can't be helping plus wipers, heated seats, etc etc. We had rain at times and air temps from 30-50. The heat is better than in my last EV but it's no aircooled 911! I wouldn't say that it makes for a cozy environment and the window defogging is not adequate for a full car in cold, light rain. I couldn't find an auto setting that kept the windows clear and fiddled constantly with fan speed while on Max Def. The rear def is on a timer so you would look up and realize that the window was figged over. It would be nice to press 2x and have it stay on.

The EA chargers give more info and I have some notes:
11am Manchester, CT '350kw'
air temp 37* and light rain
battery temp started at 72*
End state of charge 80%
Energy Delivered 28kwh
Max Rate 116kw
Charging time 16:31
I expected a quicker rate. About 2/3 into the charge we could hear some mechanical noise increase from the car and steam began to waft out from the RF wheel well.

The EvolveNY charges are still at a discounted rate and only about 5 miles from the midpoint of our trip. It's marked as 350kw but the screen is pretty light on info. We went from about 28% to 80% in 15-20 minutes. This charger was just off the scenic Taconic Pkwy in the parking lot of a grocery store. Air temp was high 40's and the battery temp was high 70's for the previous 2 hours. I"m not sure if this charger was recognized by the Nav.

EA charger
9pm Chicopee, MA
air temp 34*
battery temp started at 81*
Start soc 24%?
End soc 65%
Energy Delivered 35kwh
Max Rate 154kw
Charging time 16:30

I love driving the Taycan but was missing our old Merc GL diesel which could make this trip without stopping for gas, even at 90+ in the slush.

 

[ron_b]

...

The EA chargers give more info and I have some notes:
11am Manchester, CT '350kw'
air temp 37* and light rain
battery temp started at 72*
End state of charge 80%
Energy Delivered 28kwh
Max Rate 116kw
Charging time 16:31
I expected a quicker rate. About 2/3 into the charge we could hear some mechanical noise increase from the car and steam began to waft out from the RF wheel well.

The EvolveNY charges are still at a discounted rate and only about 5 miles from the midpoint of our trip. It's marked as 350kw but the screen is pretty light on info. We went from about 28% to 80% in 15-20 minutes. This charger was just off the scenic Taconic Pkwy in the parking lot of a grocery store. Air temp was high 40's and the battery temp was high 70's for the previous 2 hours. I"m not sure if this charger was recognized by the Nav.

...

I assume the 28 KWH is a fairly accurate number so then I question the 28 to 80%. The battery should be approx 86kWh, so 28kWh would be 33% so assuming you left at 80% as stated then you arrived closer to 47%. If that was the case 116kW avg is about right.

I try to time my fast charges to be 10% or less state of charge. I have had several at 3% and 2% and one at 1%. My challenge with these very low state of charge is that I generally don't have enough buffer to heat the battery. I generally do get 220kW with a cold battery and hit 266 with a 85F battery. it does take planning and confidence to arrive at a charger with 10% or less but that is when you see the optimal charging rates.

 

[andyd]

About this bit -

I couldn't find an auto setting that kept the windows clear and fiddled constantly with fan speed while on Max Def

I've applied Rain Ex anti fog about 3 weeks ago. Even in snowy weather I haven't had to demist the screen once and I leave it on Eco. I'm amazed to be honest. I didn't think it would have much effect.

I was out for about 500 miles yesterday and used 2 EA chargers and one EvolveNY. I plugged the charger location into Nav for each leg so I believe that the battery was conditioned prior to arrival. My connect is not working so Consumption was higher than I expected on this trip but our avg speeds were also higher than expected (oopsie). The last leg of of 90 miles used 45.7kwh/100! We had a full car with wife & son & dog so the stopovers were useful as someone always needed a bathroom break or drink/snack. I'm running 20" Pirelli Scorpion winter tires which can't be helping plus wipers, heated seats, etc etc. We had rain at times and air temps from 30-50. The heat is better than in my last EV but it's no aircooled 911! I wouldn't say that it makes for a cozy environment and the window defogging is not adequate for a full car in cold, light rain. I couldn't find an auto setting that kept the windows clear and fiddled constantly with fan speed while on Max Def. The rear def is on a timer so you would look up and realize that the window was figged over. It would be nice to press 2x and have it stay on.

The EA chargers give more info and I have some notes:
11am Manchester, CT '350kw'
air temp 37* and light rain
battery temp started at 72*
End state of charge 80%
Energy Delivered 28kwh
Max Rate 116kw
Charging time 16:31
I expected a quicker rate. About 2/3 into the charge we could hear some mechanical noise increase from the car and steam began to waft out from the RF wheel well.

The EvolveNY charges are still at a discounted rate and only about 5 miles from the midpoint of our trip. It's marked as 350kw but the screen is pretty light on info. We went from about 28% to 80% in 15-20 minutes. This charger was just off the scenic Taconic Pkwy in the parking lot of a grocery store. Air temp was high 40's and the battery temp was high 70's for the previous 2 hours. I"m not sure if this charger was recognized by the Nav.

EA charger
9pm Chicopee, MA
air temp 34*
battery temp started at 81*
Start soc 24%?
End soc 65%
Energy Delivered 35kwh
Max Rate 154kw
Charging time 16:30

I love driving the Taycan but was missing our old Merc GL diesel which could make this trip without stopping for gas, even at 90+ in the slush.

 

[chrisk]

https://www.caranddriver.com/news/a32491050/2021-ford-mustang-mach-e-charging-time/

This review (video at 20:52) shows two EA stations not working. The third station that finally worked charged the Mach-e charging only at 39-45KWH rate starting with SOC 30%. The care is supposed to be able to do 150kwh.

 

[chrisk]

One more data point.
- EA station rated 150kwh. I was the only one charging on site.
- Exterior temperature 10C (50 F). Battery temp 12C at beginning of session and 19C at the end.
- Starting SOC 66% ->SOC 85% in 28 minutes, total 18Kwh added

If you do the math then the average charging rate was (only) 38kwh. I have documented in a previous post that if I use a 50kwh Chargepoint station with same temperature and SOC then I get a steady rate of 50kwh all the way till SOC 85%. So the slow rate is because of the charger.

 

[chrisk]

Today I tried a different EA location.
SOC 63->90% by adding 25kw in 18 mins. That is an average of 83kwh.

That is much better than the rate of 38kwh I usually get at the other EA location (see previous post) starting at same SOC.

Btw there was a homeless person sleeping next to the charger. Some EA locations do not feel very safe for parking such a luxury car and staying in it while charging.

 

[ron_b]

Today I tried a different EA location.
SOC 63->90% by adding 25kw in 18 mins. That is an average of 83kwh.

That is much better than the rate of 38kwh I usually get at the other EA location (see previous post) starting at same SOC.

83kW is a great rate at that SoC for sure.
Do try to collect the battery temperature also. It makes a tremendous difference.

e.g.

 

[Chuck J]

I charged my car yesterday at a 350 kw Electrify America station and got lower than expected charge rate. The conditions were as shown on the chart and I expected up to 150 KW. Instead I got 80-105 max. The car was at 24%, OAT was 28 F and battery temp was 88 F. Does anyone have any ideas as to why it didn't charge at 150kw?

Chuck J

 

[andrewket]

kW = kilowatt, a unit of power
kWh = killowatt-hour, a unit of energy

When discussing charging rates, the correct unit is kW. "I was at an EA charger that supports 350kW charging." "I hit a peak charge rate of 280kW."

When discussing how much energy you added (or used) to/from your battery pack, the correct unit is kWh. "I added 48kWh to my battery pack in 20 minutes." "I drove for 135 miles and used 55kWh."

If you charge at 20kW for one hour, you will have received 20kWh of energy (assuming zero losses and 100% efficiency, which never happens.)

 

[Chuck J]

kW = kilowatt, a unit of power
kWh = killowatt-hour, a unit of energy

When discussing charging rates, the correct unit is kW. "I was at an EA charger that supports 350kW charging." "I hit a peak charge rate of 280kW."

When discussing how much energy you added (or used) to/from your battery pack, the correct unit is kWh. "I added 48kWh to my battery pack in 20 minutes." "I drove for 135 miles and used 55kWh."

If you charge at 20kW for one hour, you will have received 20kWh of energy (assuming zero losses and 100% efficiency, which never happens.)

Sorry, Andrew were you answering my question about why I was only charging at 80kw instead of the expected 150 kw given the circumstances?

Chuck J

 

[daveo4EV]

everyone needs to keep in mind that sometimes it’s the external charger that is the limit - even chargers that are “rated” at higher charging rates are sometimes limited during a particular charging session by available power, conditions, recent activity at the charger (depletion of any onsite power storage for example).

as I’ve said a number of times there are a number of conditions that must align to achieve the optimal charging rate…

my guess is that while your battery temperature was “in range” the ambient air temperature of 28F played a role…and the charger may have been running at a reduced rate for reasons we’ll never know.

 

[LonePalmBJ]

I charged my car yesterday at a 350 kw Electrify America station and got lower than expected charge rate. The conditions were as shown on the chart and I expected up to 150 KW. Instead I got 80-105 max. The car was at 24%, OAT was 28 F and battery temp was 88 F. Does anyone have any ideas as to why it didn't charge at 150kw?

Chuck J

There are several threads that cover this more extensively, but the short version is that battery temp and initial state of charge are only two of the factors that contribute. There are several smaller factors, such as ambient temperature, that may influence the actual charge rate but most significantly are variables of the equipment themselves. Just because a station may be rated for 350kW doesn't necessarily mean that it has the capacity to deliver it - there may be fluctuations or curtailments on the power delivered to the station itself (some of which is mitigated by local storage at some EA sites) or it may be that there just isn't enough power flowing to the station to maximize delivery. Also, the equipment itself may have limits and throttles due to temperature or other operational factors. Getting a magic 270kW charge rate requires a number of stars to align, not all of which are transparent.

It's worth noting that this isn't unique to EVs; there are wide fluctuations in the rate that a traditional gas pump can deliver fuel, for example. We tend not to notice it as it generally only amounts to a few extra minutes, but the fundamentals still apply: The rate at which a car can receive fuel is only one component in the ultimate rate of fuel delivery.

 

[andrewket]

Sorry, Andrew were you answering my question about why I was only charging at 80kw instead of the expected 150 kw given the circumstances?

Chuck J

Chuck - No, sorry . Several people who replied were using kW and kWh interchangeably and/or incorrectly and it adds confusion. I suspect many don’t even realize they are two different things. I thought it would be helpful to explain the difference.

 

[ron_b]

I charged my car yesterday at a 350 kw Electrify America station and got lower than expected charge rate. The conditions were as shown on the chart and I expected up to 150 KW. Instead I got 80-105 max. The car was at 24%, OAT was 28 F and battery temp was 88 F. Does anyone have any ideas as to why it didn't charge at 150kw?

Chuck J

Great question, I too had experienced low charging sessions when the battery was at a optimal state. I've never been in that cold of conditions though at best was I think 45F and usually 55F.

I would suggest you Electrify America and report the problem, they can track what cars have been charging at at their Chargers and determine if there is a issue with the charger. I have had repeated substandard sessions from a charger in Soledad whereas in Paso Robles I have nearly 100% success rate at full expected power. I have repeatedly submitted problem reports for Soledad in hopes that they will look into it.

That said I do also agree with what Dave said about the ambient temperature affecting the charger.