ron_b

Well-Known Member
First Name
Ron
Joined
Dec 30, 2019
Messages
1,249
Reaction score
1,067
Location
SF Bay Area, USA
Vehicles
Bolt EV, Taycan 4S
Country flag

ceresma

Well-Known Member
First Name
Mark
Joined
Jan 31, 2020
Messages
77
Reaction score
70
Location
NJ
Vehicles
Tesla S90D 2015
Country flag
What I think is more worrying is that there are no articles that proof Tesla is highly exaggerating their range...
Have a Tesla. real driving in warm conditions are about 80% of estimated. Cold weather like 60. I have 90+ k on the Tesla so those are from my experience living in NJ. Highway speeds with some local mixed in.
 

Dee

Well-Known Member
First Name
Dee
Joined
Dec 14, 2018
Messages
1,173
Reaction score
1,130
Location
The Netherlands
Vehicles
Yes.
Country flag
Have a Tesla. real driving in warm conditions are about 80% of estimated. Cold weather like 60. I have 90+ k on the Tesla so those are from my experience living in NJ. Highway speeds with some local mixed in.
Right but that's not a real test, is it?
taycanvstesla-graphs-rangetest-1581089683.png

Besides, in Europe we drive a bit faster and I know at least two people that don't come near the estimated range which Tesla claims.
My point is, why presenting dramatic EPA-numbers for the Taycan but no corrections on Tesla Model S?
The difference is not that dramatic in real life but it is on paper.
That's just wierd, isn't it?
 
OP
ron_b

ron_b

Well-Known Member
First Name
Ron
Joined
Dec 30, 2019
Messages
1,249
Reaction score
1,067
Location
SF Bay Area, USA
Vehicles
Bolt EV, Taycan 4S
Country flag
  • Thread starter
  • Thread Starter
  • #5
I don't find it that unusual to not try to bash other manufacturers i.e. Tesla. There are plenty of videos I had watched when I was considering a model S that show EV experts like Bjorn Nyland getting close to the estimates but that was with careful driving.

Also I have yet to see a Taycan hyper-miling video, I suspect 350mi with no AC at 82F temp on flat land with minimal wind and speeds in the 40s, not that any Taycan owner would do this.

Here is a comparison at 75mph by NextMove I posted a while back
https://www.taycanforum.com/forum/t...odel-s-raven-range-comparison-at-75-mph.1029/
 

felixtb

Well-Known Member
First Name
felix
Joined
Dec 13, 2018
Messages
624
Reaction score
501
Location
switzerland
Vehicles
Porsche: Taycan R; Tesla: orig Roadster, X, new roadster reserved
Country flag
Right but that's not a real test, is it?
taycanvstesla-graphs-rangetest-1581089683.png

Besides, in Europe we drive a bit faster and I know at least two people that don't come near the estimated range which Tesla claims.
My point is, why presenting dramatic EPA-numbers for the Taycan but no corrections on Tesla Model S?
The difference is not that dramatic in real life but it is on paper.
That's just wierd, isn't it?
Simply because all vehicles are optimized for their "local" testing cycles. This is also why Diesel gate was discovered in the US and not in Europe. Volkswagen group simply had the EU testing cycles completely doped and did not fine tune for the US and therefore were caught ..… :cool:
 

KerbMonster

Active Member
Joined
Nov 1, 2019
Messages
43
Reaction score
42
Location
Jersey
Vehicles
?
Country flag
Simply because all vehicles are optimized for their "local" testing cycles. This is also why Diesel gate was discovered in the US and not in Europe. Volkswagen group simply had the EU testing cycles completely doped and did not fine tune for the US and therefore were caught ..… :cool:
Nah - more like some US testers noticed that if they turned the steering wheel then emissions went through the roof (as that took it outside the test cycle parameters).
 

porsche_coyote

Well-Known Member
First Name
Wiley
Joined
Nov 23, 2019
Messages
195
Reaction score
275
Location
San Francisco, California USA
Vehicles
Porsche Taycan Turbo, Audi allroad, VW e-golf, BMW i3
Country flag
Nah - more like some US testers noticed that if they turned the steering wheel then emissions went through the roof (as that took it outside the test cycle parameters).
Yep. VW absolutely set up cars to sail through the US tests. It was some small teams at places like West Virginia University and CARB that actually figured out what was going on.
 

Damond

Active Member
First Name
Damond
Joined
Mar 4, 2020
Messages
34
Reaction score
14
Location
Tucson AZ
Vehicles
2017 911 Cabriolet (991.2)
Country flag
I am here in Tucson AZ and have been following all the different Taycan range road tests showing that the EPA estimate is not accurate. After all it is only an estimate as a result of runs done on dynamo-meter and in a controlled environment using a set of cycles under SAE J1634. I have no problem with the real world tests reported on in Motor Trend, iDrive, etc showing ranges of around 250 miles where the temperatures are not more than in the 80's. My problem is that here in the Tucson (and Phoenix) area during the summer we often hit 115F (46C). Last summer I drove my 911 from here to Las Vegas, the temperature never dropped below 105F (about 40C), and actually showed 117F when I drove back through Phoenix. I'd like to buy a Taycan 4S with the 93.4kW battery option. But I am not sure I don't have a "I can't get there from here" problem. I noticed that there are not any range estimators in the Porsche.com/usa web-site, but there are in the Porsche.com international web-sites. In the absence of any other way to determine range, I used the Middle-east/Dubai site to run the estimator to see what I could get when it was 40C (104F). I got 338km (238 miles) using the following inputs: travelling conditions: Outside Temp-40C, Driving Profile: 0% City, 40%Country, 60% Motorway; AC: ON; Performance Battery fully charged at 100%: Selected; 19 inch Wheels; Inside Temp: 22C; inside pre-conditioned to 22C. Since it was Dubai, I figured that the terrain was mostly flat. The driving profile came from the only possible route one can take from Tucson to Las Vegas with any 50kW or better charging stations. Now, 40C (104F) isn't 43-46C (110-115F), the battery charge is 80% after the first leg of the trip, and the terrain is not flat. My best guess is that I would be lucky to get 190 miles (306km) (.8 x 238). Here's my dilemma, the route I have to take goes from Tucson to Phoenix to Blythe CA to Las Vegas, there are no 50kW charging locations or better between Blythe CA and Las Vegas, a distance of 203 miles. That's a little close for comfort given the unknowns associated with the real life conditions. I could turn on the ECO Plus A/C setting which according to the estimator would give me 265 miles (426km) starting out at 100% charge. Given the other real world factors gives me a guesstimate of about 212 miles (.8 x 265). Still not comfortable with the 9 mile margin. My wish would be that someone, maybe a Phoenix dealership would take a Taycan 4S and drive it to Las Vegas when it is 105-115F to see if they can make it! Outside of the Porsche.com range estimators I have not been able to get anything out of a dealership, or even Porsche of North America about Taycan range when driven in "extreme" heat. That's my story and I am sticking to it.
 

TheSnape

Well-Known Member
Joined
Feb 22, 2019
Messages
615
Reaction score
445
Location
UK, London
Vehicles
Ford Fiesta
Country flag
Something seems very wrong with the EPA estimated range of the Taycan. 252 is really good
 

justicepool

Member
First Name
John
Joined
Feb 8, 2020
Messages
14
Reaction score
11
Location
Texas
Vehicles
Tesla Model X, Porsche 997, Porsche Macan GTS, Porsche Cayenne, Ferrari California 30, Ferrari 360 Spider
Country flag
The EPA rating has never factored in real world driving for any car, ICE or Electric. The Porsche Taycan EPA rating does appear to be too conservative. I was shocked at how close to EPA rating I achieved in my 2020 Tesla Model X Performance edition in good weather conditions. Does it achieve EPA under cold weather high wind driving? No, of course not, and no other car does either. Hopefully Porsche will re-evaluate the EPA rating and adjust accordingly. There is no conspiracy to rate Tesla higher. That thought is foolish nonsense.
TeslaFi2.jpg
TeslaFi3.jpg
 
OP
ron_b

ron_b

Well-Known Member
First Name
Ron
Joined
Dec 30, 2019
Messages
1,249
Reaction score
1,067
Location
SF Bay Area, USA
Vehicles
Bolt EV, Taycan 4S
Country flag
  • Thread starter
  • Thread Starter
  • #12
Nice avg speeds @justicepool appreciate the post. Just a few questions.
The Charging costs seem to be 9cents/kWh, that is home charging in Texas I assume?
Your posted trips have either a 1000 or 1500 foot elevation drop. Have any flat milage numbers. Or the reverse trip that you make?
 

justicepool

Member
First Name
John
Joined
Feb 8, 2020
Messages
14
Reaction score
11
Location
Texas
Vehicles
Tesla Model X, Porsche 997, Porsche Macan GTS, Porsche Cayenne, Ferrari California 30, Ferrari 360 Spider
Country flag
Nice avg speeds @justicepool appreciate the post. Just a few questions.
The Charging costs seem to be 9cents/kWh, that is home charging in Texas I assume?
Your posted trips have either a 1000 or 1500 foot elevation drop. Have any flat milage numbers. Or the reverse trip that you make?

The charge rate would reflect my home charging in Texas. Not sure why Teslafi used it on this trip though, because I used supercharging and I have free supercharging. I'll have to look through the history to find a flat mileage trip. On this particular trip I didn't take the same route home as I did to get there. There are a lot of hills West of San Antonio on I10, and that is the reason for some of the elevation readings I'm sure. I documented this trip because I was honestly shocked at how efficient the Model X was. I just picked it up 3 weeks before this trip and was expecting it to be an energy hog. I previously owned a 2014 P85 and do not recall it being this efficient (although I haven't had it in almost 3 years so just going by memory on that note). I did make a recent trip in cold rainy weather with a headwind and the efficiency was pretty poor. I'll get a shot of it and post.
 

justicepool

Member
First Name
John
Joined
Feb 8, 2020
Messages
14
Reaction score
11
Location
Texas
Vehicles
Tesla Model X, Porsche 997, Porsche Macan GTS, Porsche Cayenne, Ferrari California 30, Ferrari 360 Spider
Country flag
This trip was into a headwind and rain. The second portion of the trip I had to slow down because it was raining so hard we had limited visibility. Given the circumstances, and how aggressive I drove, I am still impressed with how efficient the Model X Performance is. I can't wait to see what Porsche offers in an all electric Macan.


Teslafi5.jpg
 

justicepool

Member
First Name
John
Joined
Feb 8, 2020
Messages
14
Reaction score
11
Location
Texas
Vehicles
Tesla Model X, Porsche 997, Porsche Macan GTS, Porsche Cayenne, Ferrari California 30, Ferrari 360 Spider
Country flag
Here is a trip with some amazing efficiency. Remember, this is a heavy performance model SUV offering from Tesla. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

IMG_4361.jpg
 

Advertisement





 



Advertisement
Top