justicepool

Member
First Name
John
Joined
Feb 8, 2020
Messages
14
Reaction score
11
Location
Texas
Vehicles
Tesla Model X, Porsche 997, Porsche Macan GTS, Porsche Cayenne, Ferrari California 30, Ferrari 360 Spider
Country flag
“Full disclaimer, I am a Tesla Fan (NOT) a Tesla Fanboy. “ and yet you post this wall of words of superfluous details. Lol.
And yet you left out the part of me also being a Porsche Fan and current Porsche owner......"superfluous details" .......they are called facts.
 

TheSnape

Well-Known Member
Joined
Feb 22, 2019
Messages
615
Reaction score
445
Location
UK, London
Vehicles
Ford Fiesta
Country flag
Whether or not they're biased towards Tesla, does it really matter at the end of the day?

The Taycan is a sports car. It's unquestionably the fastest four door saloon round the Nurburgring. And even if Musk makes some low volume special edition Model S which can beat it on the Nurburgring, what's to stop Porsche doing the same with the Taycan?

Considering this is meant to be a sports car, even a range of 200 would be amazing. A range of 257 is absolutely outstanding for what is - at the end of the day - a out and out sports car. Unquestionably the Taycan is sportier, better looking and more enjoyable to drive than the Tesla will ever be, so to even get close to the Tesla's range figures, Tesla should be really worried.

Even with the EPA's bias, it's showing a range very close to the Tesla's - and many independent runs are getting range comparable to the Tesla's. For a car that will always drive better than any Tesla ever will.
 

Damond

Active Member
First Name
Damond
Joined
Mar 4, 2020
Messages
34
Reaction score
14
Location
Tucson AZ
Vehicles
2017 911 Cabriolet (991.2)
Country flag
Unfortunately NONE of non-EPA driving range results reported so far for Tesla or Taycans have been done when the outside temperature exceeds 110F, a temperature often encountered here in the desert Southwest. It is not unusual to even hit 115F in Phoenix and Tucson. Nobody has been able to report in a "test" drive from Phoenix to Las Vegas via Blythe CA in that extreme heat. Summer is coming and I'll be interested to see if any Porsche (or even Tesla) dealership either in Phoenix/Tucson or Las Vegas, or even Porsche NA,attempts a test drive in the heat of the summer between these two locations. Problem is the 210 mile drive between Blythe CA and Las Vegas NV on US95/I-40/US95 is without any 50kW charging stations. That's given its a 80%-5% range trip when the range may be significantly lower than 200 miles.
 

Genau

Well-Known Member
First Name
Dan
Joined
Dec 15, 2019
Messages
110
Reaction score
85
Location
Reston, VA
Vehicles
yes
Country flag
Unfortunately NONE of non-EPA driving range results reported so far for Tesla or Taycans have been done when the outside temperature exceeds 110F, a temperature often encountered here in the desert Southwest. It is not unusual to even hit 115F in Phoenix and Tucson. Nobody has been able to report in a "test" drive from Phoenix to Las Vegas via Blythe CA in that extreme heat. Summer is coming and I'll be interested to see if any Porsche (or even Tesla) dealership either in Phoenix/Tucson or Las Vegas, or even Porsche NA,attempts a test drive in the heat of the summer between these two locations. Problem is the 210 mile drive between Blythe CA and Las Vegas NV on US95/I-40/US95 is without any 50kW charging stations. That's given its a 80%-5% range trip when the range may be significantly lower than 200 miles.
This doesn't fully address the high temperature range concern, but in the Taycan's favor is the included heat pump (US configurations), which more efficiently manages battery pack and cabin cooling vs. other BEVs that mostly lack a heat pump.
 

Damond

Active Member
First Name
Damond
Joined
Mar 4, 2020
Messages
34
Reaction score
14
Location
Tucson AZ
Vehicles
2017 911 Cabriolet (991.2)
Country flag
Still haven't seen any facts/figures/test results associated with what happens both range wise, and inside cabin temperature wise when the outside temp is 110F, the Range mode/ECO PLUS is selected, and one starts out with only an 80% charge. I would hate to find myself in my Taycan somewhere near Searchlight NV on US95 when its 110F and have no battery charge left...heat pump or no heat pump! Porsche says it tested the Taycan in 50C (122F) so I would suspect that they have some idea of what happens in extreme temperatures to range and inside cabin temperature.
 

Reg

Well-Known Member
Joined
Nov 17, 2019
Messages
927
Reaction score
910
Location
California
Vehicles
Taycan 4S
Country flag
Still haven't seen any facts/figures/test results associated with what happens both range wise, and inside cabin temperature wise when the outside temp is 110F, the Range mode/ECO PLUS is selected, and one starts out with only an 80 charge
You won’t see that until a customer has one and tries it since it is a bit of a corner case.
 

Damond

Active Member
First Name
Damond
Joined
Mar 4, 2020
Messages
34
Reaction score
14
Location
Tucson AZ
Vehicles
2017 911 Cabriolet (991.2)
Country flag
It isn't really a "corner case"... A lot of folks drive from Tucson/Phoenix to Las Vegas (when there isn't a COVID19 problem) during the summer months here when it is normal outside temperatures often exceed 105F. The real problem is the lack of a 50kW charging station between Blythe and Las Vegas. I actually challenged a sales person at a dealership in Phoenix to take a Taycan, any Taycan, on a drive from Phoenix to Las Vegas via Blythe CA in July-August when its 105-115F. If the sales person can make it both ways between Blythe CA and Las Vegas, I would go ahead with my order for a Taycan 4S. I haven't gotten a response.
 
OP
ron_b

ron_b

Well-Known Member
First Name
Ron
Joined
Dec 30, 2019
Messages
1,249
Reaction score
1,067
Location
SF Bay Area, USA
Vehicles
Bolt EV, Taycan 4S
Country flag
  • Thread starter
  • Thread Starter
  • #38
Well @Damond I agree that there are many places in the USA where these temperatures matter. And I know that you care about range but I wasn't sure if you had seen the Taycan Endurance test at Nardo Ring. With temperatures peaking at 107F and track temperatures of 129F. And they ran the Turbo 24hrs at an average speed of 127mph with continuous fast charging and traveling 2126miles.

Then did you know they used that same car to run the Nurburgring and got the 7:42 time.

It's testing like that which makes me confident in my Taycan order. ;)

https://newsroom.porsche.com/en/201...ce-run-nardo-long-distance-testing-18400.html
b-01-Driver-change--during-the-hot-climate-testing.jpg

b-05-Taycan--endurance-testing-in-the-first-evening-hours.jpg
 

feye

Well-Known Member
Joined
Sep 16, 2019
Messages
677
Reaction score
447
Location
Asia
Vehicles
Taycan 4S+
Country flag
Problem is the 210 mile drive between Blythe CA and Las Vegas NV on US95/I-40/US95 is without any 50kW charging stations. That's given its a 80%-5% range trip when the range may be significantly lower than 200 miles.
Why would heat and dry air like this lower the range? The Taycan 4S+ can easily give you in range mode 300 miles. What is the question here?
 
OP
ron_b

ron_b

Well-Known Member
First Name
Ron
Joined
Dec 30, 2019
Messages
1,249
Reaction score
1,067
Location
SF Bay Area, USA
Vehicles
Bolt EV, Taycan 4S
Country flag
  • Thread starter
  • Thread Starter
  • #40
Why would heat and dry air like this lower the range? The Taycan 4S+ can easily give you in range mode 300 miles. What is the question here?
Yes I completely agree, the only down side is how much AC you need to run, but AC has a much lower impact on range than the Heater in my Bolt EV experience. I think 280 would be pretty easy. I think there are some significant elevation changes in that route as well so one has to take that into account as well.

I use ABetterRoutePlaner, select Taycan and bump the wh/[email protected] figure to 300 which I think is reasonable for the vehicle in range mode. Though I certainly intend to reconfigure the Range Mode top speed to 75 from 70.
 

Damond

Active Member
First Name
Damond
Joined
Mar 4, 2020
Messages
34
Reaction score
14
Location
Tucson AZ
Vehicles
2017 911 Cabriolet (991.2)
Country flag
I did review the Nurburging tests which were primarily endurance tests and not on a production vehicle. I never did see how many km were achieved between charges, or what the charge levels were each time the Taycan was charged. Here's the closest thing to "facts" from Porsche about the range of a Taycan 4s I could get. The Porsche.com/usa website does not have a Range Estimator under "Charging" for Taycan 4S, BUT I found Porsche.com web-sites with a Range Estimator that would give some estimate of the range at a elevated temperatures. It was the Porsche.com/Middle-East/Dubai website that had a Range Estimator that went up to a 40C (104F) outside temp. The Range Estimator uses the following inputs: Driving Profile (Percent of City, Country Rd, Motorway driving), Travelling Conditions (Outside Temp-up to 104F, A/C Setting-On, EcoPlus, Off), Wheel Size-19, 20,21 and whether or not there was a Performance + Battery installed (93.4kW option). The fixed conditions were: full/100% charge at start, inside cabin temp setting-20C (72F) also pre-conditioned to 72F. I also assumed that for Dubai the terrain was fairly flat. I ran the Range Estimator using the following: Driving Profile-City 0%, Country Road 40%, Motorway 60%; Outside Temp-104F, A/C Setting-EcoPlus (the setting in Range mode), Wheel Size-19, and Performance + battery installed. The Driving Profile closely matched the drive from Blythe CA to Las Vegas. The result with these settings was 265 miles. HOWEVER, I derated that mileage by 20% to 212 miles, since I was interested in when outside temp was 110F-115F, starting charge would most likely be 80% (Blythe charging location is only 50kW) , the inside temp of the vehicle after being charged in Blythe CA for 90 minutes to 80% when it was 110F would not be 72F, but more like 110F, and the terrain between Blythe CA and Las Vegas NV is far from flat. 212 miles for a 210 mile drive with the last 50 miles being in the middle of nowhere is still too much charge anxiety for me. I would even try it if there were a 50kW charging station in Needles CA, but alas there is only a 9kW one. If one takes a look at the desert southwest and available 50kW charging stations, there is a distinct lack of them along I-40 between Flagstaff and Barstow, and between Tucson/Phoenix and Las Vegas using I-10/US95, or I-17/US60-93. Seems cars such as the Audi e-tron and Porsche Taycan with low 200 mile ranges are out of luck if driven in the extreme heat of the summer...that's up to 3 months.
 
OP
ron_b

ron_b

Well-Known Member
First Name
Ron
Joined
Dec 30, 2019
Messages
1,249
Reaction score
1,067
Location
SF Bay Area, USA
Vehicles
Bolt EV, Taycan 4S
Country flag
  • Thread starter
  • Thread Starter
  • #42
@Damond I agree Blythe to Vegas would be challenging, I would not expect a 20% drop due to temperature. I just put in a location recommendation on Electrify America for Needles and saw they have one coming to Quartzsite, AZ.
 

Damond

Active Member
First Name
Damond
Joined
Mar 4, 2020
Messages
34
Reaction score
14
Location
Tucson AZ
Vehicles
2017 911 Cabriolet (991.2)
Country flag
Ron_B, You are right about my not knowing exactly about affect of temperature on the battery. The April 2020 Auto Edition of Consumer Reports has an article on EVs in which it does comment that high temperature has affect on the range...whether that's because the A/C is running a lot or some affect on the battery is not clear. It does mention something about hilly terrain affecting range, as does the Porsche.com range estimator. In my research I did find that Electrify America had a "coming soon" charging station at a Love's Travel Center in Quartzite AZ. Unfortunately, it only makes it faster to charge to 80% (22.5 minutes or so vs 93), but Quartzite is another 10 miles further to Las Vegas. Makes for more charging anxiety not less due to the increased distance. The one factor in the range estimator that has a real impact on range, is the Driving Profile. If the Driving Profile is set to 100% Country Road, with the A/C in EcoPlus and Performance + battery installed, I actually got a range estimate for a Taycan 4S of 299 miles before derating, 239 miles after my 20% derating factor. My guess is that just like with non-EV cars, one gets better range if one drives slower, like between 50 and 65 mph. Since the road from Blythe and Las Vegas is mostly US 95 with a 65 mph speed limit, one could make it to Las Vegas. HOWEVER, one would really aggravate all those folks who normally drive that road at 70-80 mph and have to pass me in my Taycan 4S. But then again, they might get a kick out of passing a Porsche Taycan doing only 65 mph! :) Again, the real issue to me is that there isn't a 50kW or better charging station somewhere along US-95. One in Needles CA would be perfect as it would serve EV's driving along I-40 as well as along the US 95 route. BTW. My normal route to Las Vegas from Tucson with my 911 is only 410 miles, but there aren't any 50kW charging stations at all between Phoenix and Las Vegas via Wickenburg and Kingman AZ. So I am willing to drive an additional 50+ miles in my Taycan 4S. If I only could get there from here! PS. Guess your 4S delivery in Sept was affected by the COVID19 caused production shut down in Stuttgart :-(
 
OP
ron_b

ron_b

Well-Known Member
First Name
Ron
Joined
Dec 30, 2019
Messages
1,249
Reaction score
1,067
Location
SF Bay Area, USA
Vehicles
Bolt EV, Taycan 4S
Country flag
  • Thread starter
  • Thread Starter
  • #44
Yes I can't wait to test the car myself. I suggest you enter suggestions for charger locations on Electrifyamerica.com. They have provided excellent customer service in my opinion. they always call me back to ask if I have any more details to provide. Needles certainly makes sense for a location. I know that it would be an extra hour to go to Quartzsite but that would make it feasible. I think a 1hr stop in Needles at the slow charger if you were too anxious, until someone puts in a DCFC CCS station. I definitely agree that you would want to drive at least 70.

I just called my Porsche dealerships and my sales rep said that they have not seen adjustments yet. Only my stock values have seen adjustments it seems :( .

I so want to do some social distancing in a Taycan with double pane glass and an ionizer. ;)
 

Damond

Active Member
First Name
Damond
Joined
Mar 4, 2020
Messages
34
Reaction score
14
Location
Tucson AZ
Vehicles
2017 911 Cabriolet (991.2)
Country flag
Ron_b, Here's hoping you get your 4S in September:) I have been following the Porsche EV since the Mission E. I even went to Tech Tactics West in November where I got to see, touch, and explore but not drive a Taycan that was there. The local Tucson dealership is undergoing renovation but did get a Taycan Turbo, but I haven't been able to get a test drive in it yet :( I will be sending a suggestion to Electrify America for a Needles CA station. I might even send some suggestions to the other more popular companies hosting 50kW charging stations here in the desert Southwest. I am surprised that the gasoline station folks aren't getting more involved. That being said, the last time I was in Las Vegas/Henderson, I noticed that a lot of the local Terrible Herbst gas stations also had EV charging stations. It's the only combo stations I have seen. Electrify America seems to have a deal with Walmart for their charging stations. Take care and Stay Safe :like:
 

Advertisement





 



Advertisement
Top