Infrastructure Bill passed. I don’t think this is good.

cometguy

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Curious... So that document (https://www.fueleconomy.gov/feg/pdfs/guides/FEG2021.pdf) lists the Audi Allroad, Audi RS6 Avant, AMG E63, and Volvo V90 all as "midsize station wagons", and then the Mach-E is a "small station wagon" along with the Audi A4 Allroad... whereas the Panamera Sport Turismo is a "large car"... The Cross Turismo wagon is only about 2-3 inches shorter than the Panamera ST, so I guess it's a "large car" also?
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Tooney

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Curious... So that document (https://www.fueleconomy.gov/feg/pdfs/guides/FEG2021.pdf) lists the Audi Allroad, Audi RS6 Avant, AMG E63, and Volvo V90 all as "midsize station wagons", and then the Mach-E is a "small station wagon" along with the Audi A4 Allroad... whereas the Panamera Sport Turismo is a "large car"... The Cross Turismo wagon is only about 2-3 inches shorter than the Panamera ST, so I guess it's a "large car" also?
May not be why you are asking, but for the purposes of the proposed/revised tax credit, unless Feds classify it as an SUV, van, or pickup, it is a "sedan".
Also, on page 20 of the document you linked, Turismo is listed in mid-sized car category.
 

mdrobc1213

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My take is that it will probably not pass before they break again for the holidays in the Senate given the current differences that hell took them 60+ days to figure out just for the House Bill. Remember any change have to go back to reconciliation in the House unless they all just accept what comes back from the Senate. No work for the rest of this week and next week is Dec...then short month also. I think it will likely pass in Jan 2022 latest February but suspect any huge tax changes if it passed later than Feb will be pushed past say 15 Apr 2022 to allow filers to file using ONE set of clear instructions. If they change thing midway thru filing season which starts remember in early Jan 2022 then they risk mass confusion amongst a small but growing portion of the tax filing base as to what the hell the tax rule is and what is owed. Mass confusion could and will likely result...hell none of us knows what's going on and look at how confused WE are! LOL

My daughter is currently waiting still for an amended return to be dispo'd since March 2021...each call still pending and unprocessed due to COVID19 closures prior....first 12 weeks then 16 weeks then 20 week and still hold on IRS says it WILL be processed...do NOT refile. Have already written her Congressman..no help other than to verify she's on the list/in the que. Do you really think the IRS wants to add to that amended return list from a couple o thousand to tens of thousand EV buyer? Probably not...smart money would be it goes into affect and is effective NEXT tax year for 2022 taxes filed in 2023. Would make sense and save lots of folks and IRS pain...but then again its the govt so why should they do the SMART thing!
 

plamichigan

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Why is it a "boast"? I never buy anything on credit when I can pay cash, especially a non-essential luxury item. All my retirement funds are in index funds, including the portion that are bonds. I've basically followed Warren Buffet's advice on that. I call it the Ron Popeil "Set it and Forget it" investment methodology.

The only time I've tried to finance a car I ended up paying it off in 6 months. I absolutely hate owing money. I'm not wealthy, at least I don't feel wealthy, but my wife and I are comfortable. At our age, we have zero debt and sufficient funds to maintain our lifestyle. We've both worked hard all of our lives and the last thing I'm interested in at this point is *working* to try and accumulate more wealth. As it is we'll probably end up leaving our heirs a decent amount. Note: If I could we'd plan it so our funds hit zero when we do ;-)

So, I'm not sure why it should offend you that not all of us are interested in leveraging debt or *working* to accumulate more wealth. And no, I'm not from a wealthy family, 20 years in the Army, 30 Years as a Data Scientist. If leveraging debt is your thing, go for it, but it is pretty rude to denigrate those of us that simply aren't interested.

Speaking as an economist that studies consumer spending, I'm quite happy when people avoid getting into debt. Debt has its uses, and it also has its problems. For many people, controlling their risk by avoiding debt makes sense.

You can, at least theoretically, financially engineer your asset purchases and financing to establish an overall level of debt that you find optimal. There's a lot of that in finance books (including the ones I cite from time to time.) However, in real life people face lots of issues and market imperfections and asymmetrical risks that don't appear in those finance models. One way, tried and true, to mitigate your risk is...avoid borrowing.

PLA
 

whitex

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Speaking as an economist that studies consumer spending, I'm quite happy when people avoid getting into debt. Debt has its uses, and it also has its problems. For many people, controlling their risk by avoiding debt makes sense.

You can, at least theoretically, financially engineer your asset purchases and financing to establish an overall level of debt that you find optimal. There's a lot of that in finance books (including the ones I cite from time to time.) However, in real life people face lots of issues and market imperfections and asymmetrical risks that don't appear in those finance models. One way, tried and true, to mitigate your risk is...avoid borrowing.

PLA
While I agree that debt needs to be managed, it is no different than any other economics decision. Whether or not to borrow money, or whether or not to buy or sell something, all are decisions which have associated risks and rewards.

An economy without any debt doesn't work well either. Debt can be a tool to enable opportunity, both at corporation level (expansion loans, production material loans, etc.) as well as individual level (student loans, trade tool loans, home mortgage, etc). Debt is also what enables people to build up savings (retirement funds, etc). There is no simplified "debt is bad" or "debt is good" answer for anyone - each situation is different.
 

kort

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Speaking as an economist that studies consumer spending, I'm quite happy when people avoid getting into debt. Debt has its uses, and it also has its problems. For many people, controlling their risk by avoiding debt makes sense.

You can, at least theoretically, financially engineer your asset purchases and financing to establish an overall level of debt that you find optimal. There's a lot of that in finance books (including the ones I cite from time to time.) However, in real life people face lots of issues and market imperfections and asymmetrical risks that don't appear in those finance models. One way, tried and true, to mitigate your risk is...avoid borrowing.

PLA
debt is a tool, if used judiciously it can maximize the power of your assets.
YMMV
 

Mr.Smith

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There has been some discussion about the BBB being retroactive to 2021.
Current bill does not have a retroactive provision - whereas an earlier version of the bill was retroactive to May 24, 2021.

If it passes, it starts January 1, 2022
 

MohCT4

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Dealers are so clueless about this bill. My SA kept insisting that he and his sales manager hadn’t heard anything about the price cap of $80,000 and he asked me for sources. I sent him the summary from this thread. 🤷🏽‍♂️
 
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Prit

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Dealers are so clueless about this bill. My SA kept insisting that he and his sales manager hadn’t heard anything about the price cap of $80,000 and he asked me for sources. I sent him the summary from this thread. 🤷🏽‍♂️
This is so true. I think Porsche is aware and is prioritizing Taycans. It looks like mine which was set to arrive towards EOM Jan ’22 is now getting here as early as mid-December!
 

DACSarasota

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Dealers are so clueless about this bill. My SA kept insisting that he and his sales manager hadn’t heard anything about the price cap of $80,000 and he asked me for sources. I sent him the summary from this thread. 🤷🏽‍♂️
Weird. Mine said the same thing when I met with him yesterday. He had no idea and told me the credit will apply if it didnt come in. When I said something, he texted someone to verify. Strange.
 

ithinkmac

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If you go by the VIN on how how Porsche categorized it.

It's considered a sedan.

-ThinkMac-

not that it matters much for a Taycan in terms of federal tax credit, but does a Turismo wagon count as a sedan or an SUV? Whoever wrote this in the House clearly thinks that sedans, vans, SUVs and pickup trucks are the only four categories of vehicles today... And I've never seen "SUV" definitively defined (or "crossover", for that matter) ...
 

Izzone

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if it passes next year it will most likely retroactive to beginning of the year
 
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